Electric collar ban

Birker2020 said:
I remember when I posted on here about when a previous y.o was a puppy walker for the local hunt.

We were on a yard with an electric gate and when someone drove in a couple of the puppies ran out onto the lane outside. They could have been struck by a car or bike, they were lucky they weren't killed.
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I remember a post like this. Did you post under one of your other user names?
 
skinnydipper said:
I remember a post like this. Did you post under one of your other user names?
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Yes when I was Hopscotch Bandit. And i was totally trasparent at the time and told everyone including admin that I'd changed my user name because my contract had finished and I couldn't remember my password when I tried to log on at my next project.

I was getting emails under HB on my mobile (that alert you when someone has commented on your thread) and answering them after I'd changed to Birker which caused mass hysteria amongst those that like to court drama and controversy around every corner.

I did ask admin to drop the HB but I had to remind them again when it wasn't done because of the furore I was getting from certain quarters.

In fact if I remember rightly that still wasn't enough for some folks and i was 'instructed' to put something in my signature denoting that I used to be someone else 🙄 which I duly did.

Hope that answers your question 🙂
Sorry its not more exciting and dramatic.......sighs
 
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Birker2020 said:
Yes when I was Hopscotch Bandit. And i was totally trasparent at the time and told everyone including admin that I'd changed my user name because my contract had finished and I couldn't remember my password when I tried to log on at my next project.
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I was thinking of this post:
jenniehodges2001 said:
I know someone who used to puppy walk for a local hunt down South.

They had electronic gates to the yard entrance which opened by the driver pressing a remote control button they kept in their car. The one day as the pups were running free on the yard with the yard owners dog, one of the liveries came through the gate. One of the pupplies ran through the open gate and escaped onto the lane, yet the yard owners dog stood routed to the spot as he knew he wasn't allowed out of the gate!The yard owner grabbed a lunge whip and he walked over to the gate, the puppy materialised and the yard owner gave him a crack across the back with the lunge whip.

Whilst the whip might have hurt the pup at the time, it would certainly have been a lot more hurt had it been hit by a car.The pup always steered clear of the gate after that, it remembered the consequence when it ran onto the lane. Job done. It didn't live in fear of the yard owner after that, in fact ten minutes later it went over to him for a fuss. Hardly psychologically damaged for life! I really don't see how reacting like that is bad for an animal if it potentially saves their lives. The saying 'you have to be cruel to be kind' spring to mind.
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About time they were banned, although idiots will find some other vile method to avoid actually having to manage their dog effectively no doubt 🙄 It’s not rocket science - keep your dog on a lead (I totally abhor “free range” dogs due to the numbers I see go missing/get run over locally) especially around livestock…..
 
I am not a purely positive training fan, but I don't think I could ever use a shock collar on my dogs☹️ I felt bad enough putting a vibrating dog collar on Bonnie, it worked but it is now gathering dust in the cupboard. I used it twice. Now I swear loudly at her and/or throw a treat at her☺️

If I had a dog where an e-collar had to be used or the dog put down, I would probably use one as a last resort
 
Plenty of countries don't allow slip leads (or check/choke chains) for showing already. There has to be a stopper to prevent the lead closing too tightly. France and Switzerland off the top of my head (World Dog Show is in Geneva this year and they've been advertising the collar/lead situation heavily)
 
druid said:
Plenty of countries don't allow slip leads (or check/choke chains) for showing already. There has to be a stopper to prevent the lead closing too tightly. France and Switzerland off the top of my head (World Dog Show is in Geneva this year and they've been advertising the collar/lead situation heavily)
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Actually I think that’s a good thing. The main reason I hate showing is the garrotted look to make the dog hold its head up.
 
Clodagh said:
Actually I think that’s a good thing. The main reason I hate showing is the garrotted look to make the dog hold its head up.
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Certainly in Switzerland the laws are universal and would apply to the slip leads we use on gundogs too.

I show on rolled leather half checks so not an issue for us but I own one sliplead for the gundogs that has the second stopper, the rest are standard slips. They don't garrotte themselves
 
druid said:
Certainly in Switzerland the laws are universal and would apply to the slip leads we use on gundogs too.

I show on rolled leather half checks so not an issue for us but I own one sliplead for the gundogs that has the second stopper, the rest are standard slips. They don't garrotte themselves
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No, the handlers look to be doing that for them!
 
Jenko109 said:
So I suppose you would welcome the banning of electric fences for horses too then? The whack from an electric fence is far, far more painful than the low level settings available on an E collar.
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Where did you get that from ??? FYI electric fences/ invisible fences are apparently not included in this new legislation. Invisible fencing for dogs is a nightmare, lots of stories of dogs running through the shock to chase something they see, then can't get back in their own garden. Or so scared of the shock that they won't actually go in the garden.

Electric fencing used with horses is not ideal, but I do see how it has to be used in some circumstances.
 
Teaselmeg said:
not ideal, but I do see how it has to be used in some circumstances.
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You're almost there.

I find a lot of these sorts of debates is down to what we personally perceive as 'aversive but OK in the circumstances/the least bad/what I personally am prepared to agree with or use' when an individual dog/animal may not necessarily have the same perception.

It's coming down to black and white and absolutes again, with no shades of grey in between.
 
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I don't get this e-collar thing prevents sheep worrying myself. We have sheep and we can take Bandit round the fields for a walk and he'll leave them alone, when we go down the fields to bring them up he'll round them up for us (he hasn't been trained it's instinct). However, if we go somewhere like the Yorkshire Dales for a day out where the likelihood is there's going to be sheeps even though I'm 100% confident in his recall and that that he won't worry them he goes on a lead because I respect the countryside and I respect the farmer who owns the sheep. I think what people need is more respect for others and the countryside. E-collars on not sheep worrying is going to be on the rise because people don't give a toss about the consequences of their actions and behaviour anymore.
 
skinnydipper said:
Aimee Gardiner BSc (Hons) in Applied Animal Behaviour and Training

https://www.facebook.com/pawfectlybehaved/posts/pfbid02AJ6SzEsrYBABJy2N6NwRpefun2kZ4cQqRFPPVeBYciuzb4v1E3pbfaKjLdByZigcl
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So much sense in this and that is the really silly thing that shock collar users don't get, there is currently a rise in dog attacks on sheep ( and horses !) and you can currently use a shock collar in England. A lot of attacks stem from the increase in dog ownership and people not training their dog, not understanding dog behaviour, so not fulfilling their dog's need to do what they are bred to do ( chase/herd etc) in a safe way. Also, the self righteous way people ignore the country code by not keeping their dogs in a lead around livestock.
 
Ridiculous statement. I imagine the owners who let their dogs get amongst sheep arent the ones to use electric collars anyway! Electric collars have absolutely no place around animals whatsoever. We would be horrified if people use electric collars on horses so why do people think its acceptable on a dog. People just need to keep their dogs on leads when outwith their own garden!
 
skinnydipper said:
Aimee Gardiner BSc (Hons) in Applied Animal Behaviour and Training

https://www.facebook.com/pawfectlybehaved/posts/pfbid02AJ6SzEsrYBABJy2N6NwRpefun2kZ4cQqRFPPVeBYciuzb4v1E3pbfaKjLdByZigcl
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There is not scientific evidence to support what she says, JRH goes to great lengths to show evidence to support her thinking.
1, if a dog is chasing its too late to be using the collar, a trainer should know that once a dog is over threshold nothing will work so cannot use that as a reason as its very poor use of the tool.
2, I agree dogs can live great lives on lead but only when the owners life and mindset lends itself to being able to provide a good on lead life. If the brain damaged dog could have been taught a good recall and been allowed offload I am sure it would have been and possibly it would have had a more stimulating life?
3, no one is claiming the ecollar can fix everything but neither can any other dog training tool or method.
4, SOME people use the collars jn order to compete, don't tar everyone with the same brush, I didn't compete my dog as many other who have used the collar don't.
5, as JRH says if you ban the ecollar then other aversive methods will be used the trainers won't just switch to all positive methods.
I read this as a very personal opinion (each to their own) but with nothing to back it up, its also very blinkered.
 
I had no idea slip leads were the work of the devil. I have always used them and never strangled one yet. Mine were always taught to walk on a loose lead next to me. If one got a bit forward a quick ’close’ and they were back by my side.

I had a friend with a Border Terrier who liked to bog off into town to visit the supermarkets. He had one of those invisible fences put in around the yard. I was at the yard to work someone’s horse one day and he was wittering on about having to pick up the dog from Waitrose that morning. In his wisdom he decided to check the collar on his arm as he didn’t think it was working. It was on two, so not considered high but it caused him to fall to the floor screaming. Not sure on the brand as this was twenty plus years ago but it certainly packed a punch.

eta I do think shock collars have a place with certain problems but they shouldn’t be available to every Tom, Dick and Harriet.
 
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www.thetimes.co.uk

Thérèse Coffey: Minister uses ‘cruel’ electric dog collar

A rescue dog owned by the family of a cabinet minister is being trained with a collar that gives off electric shocks despite the government promising to ban the “cruel” devices.Thérèse Coffey, who was promoted to the cabinet last week as pensions secretary, was so impressed by the collar that she ag
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

The irony! The Times reports that Therese Coffey used an e-collar on her own dog AFTER DEFRA, for which she is the minister, had announced the intent to ban.
 
Will admit that I watched a video today on using an e-collar for working with an aggressive dog, and it's challenged my perception of using e-collars. Don't agree with everything the trainer said/did, but I can see how you could use them minimally alongside other training techniques for a strong dog.
 
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