Elite AES-stallion

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
Whitaker's Elite AES-stallion Argento; the true pedigree -according Horse&Hound- on SporthorseData. Will AES confirm?
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
AES has provided this stallion with a different pedigree in their AES-database. This lineage - with information (incl. Horse&Hound-info) from the origin - has been passed on to them. Will they change their details?
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
I'm sorry, I already said they have got the info. It might be more clear to you if I say they have already changed the pedigree before; first they had a swedish line, then they were told that couldn't be so they, -according to some- made another joke-pedigree. In time their behaviour has caused the problem that there are worlwide at least 5 DIFFERENT pedigrees in official passports of the offspring of this stallion. Is that not worth starting multiple threads here?
 

sywell

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2009
Messages
952
Visit site
I'm sorry, I already said they have got the info. It might be more clear to you if I say they have already changed the pedigree before; first they had a swedish line, then they were told that couldn't be so they, -according to some- made another joke-pedigree. In time their behaviour has caused the problem that there are worlwide at least 5 DIFFERENT pedigrees in official passports of the offspring of this stallion. Is that not worth starting multiple threads here?
This is an increasing problem in sports horses who change country and name and it is important for the breeder as in many EU Countrys financial reward is offerd to breeders or the success of their progeny. DNA testing became mandatory for some studbooks around 2006 and in Germany some pasports show the DNA markers in the passport now. The WBFSH at last years delegate conferance was also concerned about the sale of frozen semen and the stallion owner having no idea where it was used as it changed hands between dealers. A database was proposed to record frozen semen sales,
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
The problem I refer to has nothing to do with "your" increasing problem.
It is simply AES who is not interested in doing the good work; their database may be one of the worst. Maybe the use of the UELN will bring them up to date in 100 years from now for the horses they brought in that last 50 year? Maybe, if they don't find other excuses.
 

sywell

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 March 2009
Messages
952
Visit site
I presume you are saying Argento is oot t by Arko III out of Flora May or is that the correct pedigree.
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
I have no problem in reading that Argento is a son of both Arko 33 07568 94 and Flora May 94.005392. I'm NOT saying that is an incorrect statement.
The article in Horse&Hound says the grandmother of Argento is "Purdy".
AES says the grandmother of Argento is "Perdi".
These mares pedigrees are not the same.

AES has first used a "Swedish" Perdi in the database.
AES has secondly used a "ISH" Perdi in the database.
Horse&Hound has Purdy for the database.

Argento is AES since 2002.
Due to AES's behaviour Argento is "main stud book".
Due to AES's behaviour Argento's progeny can be "main stud book"
Due to AES 's behaviour there are nowadays at least 4 different pedigrees in "official" passports.

Will AES confirm Horse&Hound's article and deal with the consequences?
 

DiNozzo

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2014
Messages
2,322
Visit site
I have no problem in reading that Argento is a son of both Arko 33 07568 94 and Flora May 94.005392. I'm NOT saying that is an incorrect statement.
The article in Horse&Hound says the grandmother of Argento is "Purdy".
AES says the grandmother of Argento is "Perdi".
These mares pedigrees are not the same.

AES has first used a "Swedish" Perdi in the database.
AES has secondly used a "ISH" Perdi in the database.
Horse&Hound has Purdy for the database.

Argento is AES since 2002.
Due to AES's behaviour Argento is "main stud book".
Due to AES's behaviour Argento's progeny can be "main stud book"
Due to AES 's behaviour there are nowadays at least 4 different pedigrees in "official" passports.

Will AES confirm Horse&Hound's article and deal with the consequences?

Why don't you contact H&H directly? Or AES?
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
DiNozzo; If "contact" means that one mails the given "sides"; that is done. It is "all quiet on both fronts" until now

Ester; My language is dutch, I can't really "understand" the meaning of "given the usual level of content"?
 

Pippity

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 February 2013
Messages
3,320
Location
Warrington
Visit site
DiNozzo; If "contact" means that one mails the given "sides"; that is done. It is "all quiet on both fronts" until now

Ester; My language is dutch, I can't really "understand" the meaning of "given the usual level of content"?

She means that H&H often makes mistakes. It's more likely they've made a mistake when talking about Purdy/Perdi than that they have super-secret info about Argento's parentage.
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
Wow, like the article says; it was in a public celebration (At the British breeders’ awards dinner held at the City Grange Hotel in London on Saturday, 10 January 2015) ! with pictures! of rewardings by name (in The Burton Hunt; https://www.burtonhunt.co.uk/double...on-country-at-british-breeders-awards-dinner/)!
and confirming articles
in British showjumping; https://www.britishshowjumping.co.uk/media/news/sterling-year-for-british-bred-equines,
British Eventing;
https://www.britisheventing.com/news/sterling-year-for-british-bred-equines .....
Not super-secret info about Argento's parentage but far more possible misguidance for getting "Main Stud Book" - paperwork. And let it go on all quiet; in 50 years from now nobody bodders.
Do you know KWPN is the only studbook worldwide that doesn't make note of the father of "Alexis Z" (Alme according Hannover Breed) in their passports of their bred horses because bloodtests (independant double-checked and renewed) didn't match for Alme as father. Is that fair?

Mail AES and ask them what is going on in their home.
If thousands ask the same, they might act in replying?
Until now they are playing; DO NOT react.
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
what is wow exactly?

So what you actually want from this is some sort of mass action?
People write on forums to get reaction. Reaction is an action. I have nothing against "some sort of mass action". That would be more satisfying than the AES's lack off action.
 

honetpot

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2010
Messages
9,058
Location
Cambridgeshire
Visit site
There has been a huge scandal/mix up in the cattle world, when straws of semen are expensive and tied very directly to the sires performance because meat and milk are so measurable and could make a huge difference to a herd, not only in value but the end product.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-lies-youll-get-caught-out-eventually.285324/

A lot of information is just 'copy and paste' from journalists on the internet, I often amazed even on TV the fact checking is appalling, and by missing a small piece of information you change the sense of the whole article.
Cattle/horses have unique numbers and really it would just be easier to go on the sires/dams unique number rather than the name, which can be miss-pelt or mispronounced.
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
There has been a huge scandal/mix up in the cattle world, when straws of semen are expensive and tied very directly to the sires performance because meat and milk are so measurable and could make a huge difference to a herd, not only in value but the end product.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-lies-youll-get-caught-out-eventually.285324/

A lot of information is just 'copy and paste' from journalists on the internet, I often amazed even on TV the fact checking is appalling, and by missing a small piece of information you change the sense of the whole article.
Cattle/horses have unique numbers and really it would just be easier to go on the sires/dams unique number rather than the name, which can be miss-pelt or mispronounced.
Agree on "Just", but there is more than "just" in the research of different people and their combined findings. On Alexis Z you can ask KWPN and Zangersheide. On Flora May there's research of SporthorseDataMembers and the official different pedigrees in Z, AES, BWP, IHS ...
Feel free to research
and please post your actual findings!!!
 

ludoagten

Active Member
Joined
5 June 2020
Messages
40
Visit site
There has been a huge scandal/mix up in the cattle world, when straws of semen are expensive and tied very directly to the sires performance because meat and milk are so measurable and could make a huge difference to a herd, not only in value but the end product.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-lies-youll-get-caught-out-eventually.285324/

A lot of information is just 'copy and paste' from journalists on the internet, I often amazed even on TV the fact checking is appalling, and by missing a small piece of information you change the sense of the whole article.
Cattle/horses have unique numbers and really it would just be easier to go on the sires/dams unique number rather than the name, which can be miss-pelt or mispronounced.
I totally agree that these "Numbers" should be ALSO entered with the names
The British databases are not the best example for this. Like I already said; in 1970 a horse with questionnables was called "Irish" or "Polish" in Belgium. Even these days Zangersheide database puts "POL" in the breed if they don't get it.
 
Top