EMS - how do you cope psychologically with all the restrictions?

[catembi]

My Dartmoor has tested +ve for EMS, has been on Ertugliflozin for a month & her insulin levels have gone up from 201 to 223. I've got to get even stricter with her diet. She cannot have hay, even steamed, as she is very allergic. Won't eat soaked so it has to be haylage. She also has type 2 PSSM & gets very stiff when stabled. I usually keep all four (2 x TBs, Dartmoor & Shetland) in a herd with ad lib haylage. They are on a big yard all winter with free access to 6 stables as my very heavy clay fields are unusably wet, so everyone is fully grass free atm.

I suppose that the 'ideal' regime for her would be on a separate bit of yard with the Shetland for company with a weighed net of haylage during the day, then stabled at night with weighed haylage. In summer, I have a teeny tiny little paddock where she could probably be unmuzzled during the day with the Shetland, or turned out in the fields muzzled at all times, then shut in at night with weighed haylage.

I know that it's necessary to keep her insulin levels under control, but it doesn't seem much of a life! Restrictions are manageable such as box rest where there's a definite end date in sight, but this will be forever. She is rising 9, so potentially 20 years of being kept in a small area of yard or field, stabled overnight which makes her stiff & turned out muzzled. I am struggling to come to terms with having to give her a joyless existence. I appreciate that this is better than lami, but she won't understand that. It's also hard to exercise her as she is very exercise intolerant from PSSM & even a relatively small amount does hurt her. Aaarrghhh...!

I'm going to test my haylage so that I can find out how 'bad' it is, and then I suppose we'll take it from there.

 

[tda]

Could you make a track for her round the outside (or inside) of the yard perimeter

 

[ponynutz]

I can't be too much help, apologies, but just wanted to say ours are turned out with a weighed haynet in a just shy of 20x40 arena during winter (and then stabled at night with another weighed haynet). They thrive! Could a set up like that work?

 

[catembi]

I have thought about making a track, but it would have to be surfaced so it would be expensive. And would therefore need planning... I am still considering it though. There would be a lovely route for it to go up one side, across the top through the trees & then to a loafing area surrounded by trees where I could put a shelter. Just need to win the lottery first!

I do also have an arena & they occasionally get let in there during winter for rolling & zoomies, but I don't want my surface contaminated with haylage.

Does anyone know if chaff such as Honeychop Lite or the Agrobs Grunhafer are okay to feed unrestricted? On the FB forum, every time someone suggests feeding x, someone else will say that's the worst thing to do & to feed y...!

 

[meleeka]

Honeychop Lite is very low in sugar/starch so I would think it would ok as a hay replacer.

My Shetlands have a track in summer. I start off strip grazing it then when it’s complete it’s pretty grass free. Moving the fence by 6 inches a day also means they don’t look for hay then, so it works well. When I do give hay I spread it out well so they have to ‘graze’ to eat it.

I have a similar problem with one of my oldies. Hers is dental related though so can’t eat hay. She comes in at night when she can have a hay replacer and then another in the morning before she goes out.

 

[poiuytrewq]

So difficult, My old horse was very dust allergic so couldn't just stuff him with hay. He was the size of a small house but out of work and all he wanted was to be with the others. Its really tough.
We did him a turnout pen, well we already had it but upgraded a bit to include a make shift shelter and better surface.

Could you use chopped straw chaff dampened? Mine was ok with that, he didn't much like it but did eat if nothing else and i was happier knowing he had something.

 

[maya2008]

Points to consider:
- Is she actually so compromised by the pssm she cannot go for a walk? If so, is she in constant pain anyway as living involves walking around? If not, a 30min walk daily would help hugely. For our EMS Shetland trot is better, but walk is massively better than nothing.
- If you sprayed it down with water to keep the dust away, or used a low sugar chaff, could she have a partially straw diet? Our vet was adamant this was the answer, and it was a large part of the solution for us.

In your position I would pts - there are too many warring conditions and the possibility of keeping her comfortable is vanishingly small. She can’t exercise because of the breathing and the pssm. She can’t beat the EMS because she can’t exercise or eat straw (dusty).

I wish I had a solution to offer.

 

[catembi]

She can work a tiny bit. 30 minutes light schooling is too much. Maybe I could start with 10 minutes and see how we go. Could be in hand or lungeing.

 

[maya2008]

She can work a tiny bit. 30 minutes light schooling is too much. Maybe I could start with 10 minutes and see how we go. Could be in hand or lungeing.

I would do in-hand. I wouldn’t put a rider on a pony with breathing issues. Literally take her for a walk like she’s a dog. 5 min then a little further, then a little further. Very gradually build it up. If you can, on solid ground not an arena.

 

[HopOnTrot]

We have clay, 2 ponies, one with EMS and one who is more tolerant to grass but not allowed unrestricted.

In summer 2.5 acres gets split into 6 paddocks, the more tolerant one will move first to take the length down and the EMS one goes in later for the short grass. Paddocks are regularly rotated and come winter the whole field is open/strip grazed and holds up quite well. Fed steamed hay twice a day. Rotating the field all summer has helped my clay fields last really well this winter as the grass roots have had time to establish. In summer I often stable during the day to get them off the grass. My dream is to put a surface turnout area in at home but that would involve DH giving me his orchard

It is a struggle and if my EMS pony has to retire I’m not sure if I could keep her restricted for her whole retirement, she now refuses to wear a muzzle as she can remove it no matter what I try.

You have my sympathy

 

[SEL]

I have EMS and PSSM (1) to manage and track my fields. The worst wears a muzzle every time I open a new bit and I open it in the morning so the muzzle can come off at night.

It doesn't need to be surfaced. If you really want to make sure the grass has gone then create the track and turn them all out on it when the ground is still wet and you'll have a bare track pretty quickly - its what one of the track liveries near me does for part of their track and works fine.

Topchop zero is oat straw and very low sugar levels, although a friend mixes her haylage with feed grade straw and her laminitic does well on that.

I hand walk my PSSM mare. She cannot tolerate weight on her back but she can be walked out like a big dog and it keeps me fit too.

 

[paddy555]

I know that it's necessary to keep her insulin levels under control, but it doesn't seem much of a life! Restrictions are manageable such as box rest where there's a definite end date in sight, but this will be forever. She is rising 9, so potentially 20 years of being kept in a small area of yard or field, stabled overnight which makes her stiff & turned out muzzled. I am struggling to come to terms with having to give her a joyless existence. I appreciate that this is better than lami, but she won't understand that.

I wouldn't even try. Quality of life is more important than quantity. I would turn her out, let her get on with being a pony and if the worst happens PTS straight away. I wouldn't try to treat the lami if it happened, that would be it.

20 years of such a restricted regime for a Dartmoor just to keep her alive and for what? no way for me.

 

[I'm Dun]

Honestly, EMS and Type2 PSSM is a horrible combo of pain and restrictions and I'd be giving very serious thought to PTS being the kindest option.

 

[Fransurrey]

When I had an EMS pony I kept him with one other who had severe sweet itch, so both needed restriction for different reasons (her itching was exacerbated by too much grass and she also went mental!). They were muzzled in the Spring and Autumn when we had rainy spells, but with hay or haylage on the ground if the grass was too short for muzzles (they could eat it through the muzzle no problem, like spaghetti!!). Later in his life I was able to ditch the muzzles by using a slow feeder net stuffed full of forage. Only works if they're unshod of course. I'm restricted in how I make a track due to being on livery, but I did consider that, so it might work well for you.

ETA: feedwise I did try the oat straw based feeds, but EMS pony wasn't keen. He did really like the Pure Easy, though.

 

[NinjaPony]

My elderly Welsh has EMS and Cushings.

I manage him by feeding soaked hay, turning out in a muzzle in a field that’s already been grazed alongside a bigger friend, and the muzzle stays on all year round including in this freezing weather. He comes in overnight all year round and I try to walk him inhand at least 3/4 times a week.

This is working well for him and he seems happy enough but I do have to monitor him very closely as he has had laminitis twice in the past before getting diagnosed with Cushings.

 

[nutjob]

I turn mine out in a school all the time including overnight. I had one with a severe grass intolerance and he lived almost entirely in there. The area of the school contaminated by hay / haylage is very small and could probably have been mostly avoided if I used some kind of tray underneath the nets or installed a haybar in the corner.

My land is a very heavy clay and I still use the school for turnout a lot now even though current horses are fine on grass. Been doing this for 12 years now as I don't have a yard.

 

[Snowfilly]

At her age and facing a lifetime of restrictions like that, and with two disorders with somewhat competing needs, I don’t think I’d even try. Twenty years is a hell of a long time with little quality of life to just be a horse.

 

[ElleSkywalkingintheair]

Not quite the same but I had a mare with EMS, Cushings, ulcers and she was a headshaker. I decided early on the restrictions I was happy with, she was unrideable due to headshaking and starving her to the extreme would have made the ulcers unbearable. She lived on a track with shetland friend with soaked hay. This worked well for many years until she got lami dispite all my efforts. It wasn't overly bad so dispite saying I'd PTS immediately if she ever got lami again we treated her as she went back to a very similar life for another year or so, however when she then got lami again over winter when she was 100% grass free, we called it a day.

I think the best thing you can do is decide a minimum quality of life you want for her. If she can't have that, then I'd seriously consider PTS.

I've also found for EMS types movement is key, if adding a surfaced track was an option at all, or letting just the littlelies go in the big field in the winter to get some movement and weight loss that might be an option?

 

[ycbm]

I am struggling to come to terms with having to give her a joyless existence.

You don't have to give her a joyless existence. With a combination of dust allergies, EMS that can only be controlled away from grass and PSSM so bad she is stiff on an ongoing basis, then if she was mine I'd either be sending her to a grassless track with haylage system to see if she can cope or PTS.
.

 

[GinaGeo]

I have an EMS pony (also has Cushings but is medicated) who also has COPD. And I manage him alongside three others who can eat.

In summer he goes out on a grass track at night with the others, he wears a muzzle if necessary. And then goes on a surfaced track/ yard with haylage at night whilst the non ems ones go in a grassy paddock.

In winter he goes out with the others on the surfaced track / yard with weighed haylage during the day. And is stabled at night with limited / weighed haylage whilst the others remain out with ad lib haylage.

He also has a sharer 2/3 times a week who exercises him. And I try to lead him out of one of my others a couple of times too.

It is the work that keeps everything under control, he will not be retired.

And if he couldn’t be with the others at least part of the time that would also be game over.

 

[blitznbobs]

I decided long ago that a horse that can never go in a field , has to be grass less and can’t work is not a horse I am going to keep going… if they can’t be a horse and can’t be a useful human companion who am I keeping them alive for?

The last chap I had with ems lasted 3 years before he got a serious attack of lamí and was pts that day.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

A grass free track would be the ideal & what I would do with my lad if I could - but none locally within budget being my issue. Is there any set up like that near you?

 

[scats]

Polly has EMS and I strongly suspect PSSM. She is muzzled and I manage her in summer with soaked hay when she is in and i use winter to let her drop weight.

The moment her life becomes restricted too much, or she can no longer be a horse and enjoy normal things, she will be PTS.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

We have a livery (lovely cob) who was recently diagnosed with EMS. He's on the Honey Chop Lite and seems to be doing well on it.

We've trialled cinnamon, marigold and cleavers - stopped it for three days to see if they really works and it does, so he's back on them. He's out with the others and on ad lib hay without issue. We'll be setting up a track before the Spring grass arrives.

 

[catembi]

That's really useful, thank you. I had seen those herbs mentioned but it's so hard to know what works & what doesn't. How do you think they help him?

 

[MrsMozartleto]

That's really useful, thank you. I had seen those herbs mentioned but it's so hard to know what works & what doesn't. How do you think they help him?

Before he started on them, and on towards the end of the three days without, he lifts alternate forelegs. Obviously uncomfortable. When on them he just acts like a normal pony, though can't be freerange on grass outside of November to March/April-ish. Come Spring he'll have to go on strip grazing even on the track, as the track won't be surfaced until towards the end of the year - it's a rather unexpected and large budget item.

We put one of the older horses on the cinnamon, marigold and cleavers as well, as she's been showing signs of 'something going on', only she's well aged and her owner wants her happy and comfortable. Since being on them she's holding her weight and has a lot of pep.

The cinnamon has to be the right one. I'll dig out the invoice as I can't recall which it is. ETA: Ceylon Cinnamon Powder (True). It's the one that was recommended - there's two different types of cinnamon - a Google search: Ceylon, on the other hand, is “true” cinnamon that is sourced from Sri Lanka, Madagascar and the Seychelles. Typically more expensive, Ceylon has a lighter, brighter and spicier flavor than cassia cinnamon. The good news: it has 63 times LESS coumarin than cassia so it is safer to use, especially in large quantities.

 

[Palindrome]

I am on clay too and for a track the mud control slabs work well (single slab wide path). For a hard standing I have a bit more mixed feelings.

 

[HollyWoozle]

We have a mini with EMS, although that it is only health issue and he can eat hay, so is obviously easier to deal with than your case. I will just tell you what we do in case it is useful for you anyhow.

My parents bought Domino late 2019 (they are mad) without realising anything was amiss. He went out in the field with the others and by Feb 2020 he had lami and a gas pocket blew out the front of his hoof! Farrier knew him from previous home and said his feet had been a mess for ages and he hadn’t been well-managed. Anyhow, he has now been sound for a long time, has no medication, no work (I have sometimes taken him for in-hand walks but haven’t kept it up), no muzzle and his maintenance isn’t too difficult. He is 14.

We have one main field with an adjoining small paddock which is bare of grass. We put in a track in the main field and have never put in a surface, it is just pretty bare as he has walked it down (otherwise would have let a bigger pony wreck it first). From around 8.30am to 6.30pm he goes on the track with small weighed nets of soaked hay. Then overnight he goes into the bare paddock with one of the other ponies for company - they are split for a bucket feed and Domino has a small cup of speedibeet, a little balancer, top chop lite and a little linseed. He greatly enjoys it. Afterwards they are given weighed nets of soaked hay.

This is working really well for us and whilst he is not what I would call slim, he is not fat and is sound, cheery and I believe has a good life. Farrier says his feet are perfect. He has direct company more often than not and rest of the time walks back and forth on his track and is able to follow and stay fairly close to the rest of the herd. He enjoys his bucket and never really goes hungry - his picks at the little bits that grow on the track and paddock edges so also gets to experience grazing/foraging without taking much in.

Sometimes you need to be a bit inventive with tracks too - our main field is basically a square with a lake in the middle. The horses can walk almost the full way around the lake but not quite, there is a path to the lake from outside the field meaning they sort of have a big C-shape with the C almost joined up. It worked better for us to make a track around the lake, rather than the outer edge, and I am thrilled we did it.

I hope you can find a way forward with your pony.

 

[Flame_]

Soaked hay. With no available alternatives, it shouldn't take her long to get over herself and eat.

 

[catembi]

Thank you for the detailed descriptions of how you manage your EMS ponies. All might not be lost, then! She has been a lot chirpier since the breathing issue has been sorted. The ideal would be for her to spend as much time with the herd as possible, but if separated, she would have the Shetland for company. Shetland is currently not symptomatic but it wouldn’t hurt her to lose some weight.