Mine is out on a track in the day eating wetted normal hay but penned at night on a very small net of soaked hay and a bigger, tiny holed net of Timothy haylage or meadow haylage (Horsehage is too £££ for me). Last bloods showed normal insulin levels so it seems to be working for her.
Mine are out 24/7 on a bare paddock because Saus and Cob can’t be stabled for medical reasons. You might have to sacrifice some ground, let them eat it down to virtually nothing and provide hay in double-netted small-hole nets to ensure adequate fibre intake. Cob was overweight when she arrived and this system helped her shed the kilos.
Yes - the Appy is muzzled though and on steglatro.
It's my Appy cross who's actually looking the fattest out of them all. The boy who I thought was PPID has ribs visible, just always looks bloated. She's the least broken of the lot, so we started walking out again this afternoon. The boys are too broken mentally and physically to go out and about, so I'm really trying to manage them all the same. This heat stressed grass must be super sweet though. I may need to muzzle them all, her to stop munching so much, and the boys so they don't take her muzzle off!
while they look shiny and are happy DP looks like a barrel on 4 legs.I thought that was typical for EMS horses, but the vet said not to worry as his test came back negative for cushings (locum). Discussed with my usual vet and she recommended managing him as one, and it wouldn't really do the others any harm, so that will be the plan going forward. I should track the paddocks off in my rotations next year, currently cannot get a post in the ground! I wish I could turn the whole field into a dry lot and just feed hay, it would probably be so much easier for them and meLooking bloated and ribby is quite normal for EMS ponies. It doesn’t matter how slim DP is he still has what I call a straw belly. When on their track they have weighed meadow hay and tiny feeds twice daily to add protein/supplements which are essential for healthy hoof growth. Although the track looks bare their poos are still green so they are getting enough and I really think we over estimate just how much they really need. Neither of my boys are in work now and haven’t been for three years yet on the track they look fit and muscled. This year due to lack of cattle grazing they have been in the small orchard and I’m having to soak hay and muzzle
yes I have moved to HH (devon haylage timothy or native grass w herbs) analysis of these are on their website.
bear in mind that the ACTH test isn[t always that accurate. Mine tested negative twice within a week and was nearly dead with every clinical symptom of cushings.
Thanks Paddy, that's very interesting. I've just ordered some more haylage and once my mare has switched over (doing it gradually) I'll put her into haylage only. Of course, it's more expensive.....
Rigs is another happy tale. He is now 20 yrs and in work, happy, looks fabulous and is living his best life.There's a horse at my yard that used to have EMS. It was successfully reversed with weight loss and exercise and he's fit as a fiddle now (although not fat enough to be a successful coloured native anymore). I am just contributing a happy tale in support
but mum had dementia and I was in a bad way myself and needed a horse to simply care for, having sold the high octane one as she was too much risk, having dumped me twice in 3 weeks as my mind wasn't on horses!Yes, the next winter I put him on high fibre Horsehage. He eats one bale every 2 days. It is expensive but I simply could not do another winter of intensive soaking.
Late to the party but I'm another who has their first EMS/pot cushings horse.
Rigs is another happy tale. He is now 20 yrs and in work, happy, looks fabulous and is living his best life.
View attachment 165230
I bought him, aged 15, in 2020, knowing he was compromised. He was just finishing 3 months of box rest for lami, had an EMS score of 236 (from memory) and borderline cushings of 27.5. He was also asthmatic.
I didn't X ray as the farrier said that on the fronts, you could see how rotated his pedal bones were by the nasty bulge in the sole. He'd always been barefoot so thankfully had thick soles, but was wearing his first ever set of shoes, as per the vets orders, put on by the previous owners. I'm guessing that not walking on bulging pedal bones was more comfortable at the time. He was also stiff in his hocks, having been locked in a small stable for the three months.
Yes, I know I was daft to buy him
The previous owner had done a good job of slimming him down in the three months. You could feel and faintly see a rib at the back.
I knew that I knew naff all about Lami, EMS and cushings, so called a vet out to have a conflab. My vet was from a large animal hospital and, sadly, I found he was more interested when I had expensive competition animals rather than a broken down old cob. So, I switched vets to an independent.
They sent a lovely vet who talked to me for over an hour, assessing and advising.
They advised he was still in a crucial stage and didn't do other than a resting test at the time, as he was going to be on a full regime anyway. He said that we could do drugs but, if I was on board, we could also try to reverse the EMS by drastic dieting. He also allowed shoe removal, as long as he was kept on a soft bed and turned out on the arena, which was literally carpeted. I got a specialist trimmer, at over £100 a throw, to start to re-balance his feet, and a body worked to address the tensions from him standing in a lami stance.
He was started with walking on the road only as far as comfortable. This initially was 100yds or so! He was ridden on the arena, for weight loss, only at walk to start with.
Dieting was savage! He was allowed 8kg of well soaked and rinsed hay a day. It was all weighed, and he was on non edible bedding. He had a small amount of speedy beet and molasses free chop to carry vitamins.
The vet asked me to undertake no grass for a year.
Did I say the dieting was savage? I kept having to call the vet out because, to me, he became far too thin. I was happy to see the last three ribs, but that was, apparently, not enough. The vet wanted to see ALL of his ribs. This was hard work for a chunky cob!
I tried to give some straw as a filler. The vet said that would make him more prone to colic, but I decided to risk it for his mental welfare and to hopefully stave off ulcers. I then felt stupid as he did colic, and nearly died. No more straw!
He lost the fat pads on his neck as he lost practically all fat on him! I had to call the vet out to say have I gone too far! The vet said no, keep the diet.
People said he was too thin and I was cruel. I got the vet to examine him and no, he was as he needed to be.
I would not have kept on this regime permanently, as I questioned his quality of life. But the vet said there was a good chance of reversing the condition, so I carried on.
That spring, we did the full fasting/sugar test.
He
Was
negative!
Very low score, normal! The vet and I were both laughing!
He started on a little grass, 20 minutes a day with a muzzle, and built it up from there. That summer, he made it to 4 hours a day, muzzled, usually in 2 X 2 hr blocks.
I find his wee is the best indicator of is he is having too much sugar. More wee means cutting back.
Yes, the next winter I put him on high fibre Horsehage. He eats one bale every 2 days. It is expensive but I simply could not do another winter of intensive soaking.
He can have slightly less of that, and I was using the ridiculously small holed nets, and even then having to feed at 6am, 12.00 midday, 4pm and 9pm, just to spread it out. Even those nets would be gone in half an hour. He ate through some in frustration. It was a bind, being home every 4 hours day in day out.
Next spring, he was tested again. Cushings not any further an issue. EMS now better than before. He was on more grazing, muzzled, up to 8 hours a day, split into two. We also built him a patio from the back door of his stable, so he could have more time looking around. Weight was allowed back on, 3 ribs was enough, yay! I stopped having to cover him up with a rug! Yes, I was so ashamed of how he looked, despite it being under vets orders.
Sadly, Mr Red died suddenly and unexpectedly, in 2023. Since then, I have a new boyfriend, who happens to be a designer/inventor/manufacturer, with his own plastics fabrication business. He too found it frustrating that we had to be home every 4 hours. He designed and built Rigs a slow hay feeder.
View attachment 165232
This was fab as it keeps the haylage dry and takes him 2 hours to browse his way through the forage. It has a hopper shape inside to allow the haylage down. As he was sound, he was working more. He even taught the boyfriend to ride.
View attachment 165233
Rigs had trouble with his asthma, needing an inhaler in summer, but my boyfriend designed and made a new muzzle that was better ventilated. He now shows no symptoms and is not medicated at all.
I wonder how much his seasonal asthma was related to the muzzles, as he was not so bad in winter. With this one, he is now grazing 16 hours a day straight.
View attachment 165234
This year, I tried to book him in for more blood tests but the vet said not to bother. He has remained asymptomatic for EMS and Cushings, is fit and happy, rock crunching barefoot over any ground and generally behaving like a 20 yo should know better! He is keen to ride, but kind and responsive.
He is still on Horsehage and restricted grazing either by virtue of bare fields or muzzle. I would not feed dry hay, although BF also made an easy hay soaker if I do need to revert to hay instead of haylage. I watch his crest like a hawk, monitor he pee output. If either are not good, he is worked more rather than restricted.
I know it will always be a balancing act. The vet warned that there was never a 'cure' for EMS, it is more that he is in remission and we must always take care.
I like that he is having a normal horse life and we have balanced risk with quality of life. If, at 20 years old, I get the balance wrong, I can live with that as I do believe I pulled out all the stops to learn about something that was new to me. That is even if he has a relapse and is PTS.
He is on no medication. He is really easy to keep, only needing oil rubbing into the backs of his knees. He used to have filled legs and the start of CPL. The legs no longer fill and the CPL has not advanced further. his feet pretty much self-trim, but we do balance them ourselves, with an angle grinder LOL, which makes it quick and easy.
He is healthier at 20 than he has been since I've known him.
Dieting was savage, it felt cruel at times, but I trusted in the vet and it paid off. It was only for just less than a year for the reversal to happen. We don't plan on any further blood tests as he is on a regime that supports him and he is symptom free. He started casting his coat this year and looks fab. If he struggles, I will test again. But, I also decided that I would not go through the starving him again. If, on this regime he reverts to EMS/lami, then I have done my best and it is not to be. As a short term measure, stabling and starving was OK, as it has led to a long and healthy time. If it is not enough, then I feel that I did my best.
He doesn't half look and feel good on it though!
The one I have is a touch too big for my hands, but great for the boyfriend to use. I did buy a smaller one but it doesn't leave such a good finish.
but I felt it had to be done as he needed a good result before he could have any grass at all.
Yes, Rigs went through an awful stage. Someone commented somewhere that he was so thin, that his head looked too large for his body. The said his face looked pinched. It did. His neck looked weird. His back also looked awful. You could see his spine and 2 strings each side. I felt awful riding him like that, but work made it more likely that we would be successful. That was the stage where I put a rug on him and only let people I trusted see him. Also when I wanted it noting on his vet record that I had been concerned that he was too thin and the vet supported me that he needed to continue the diet. I took photos the dates the vat came to prove myself in case someone called the RSPCA.
not really about your post but I started googling crests after reading it especially about how to my mind they get hard very very quickly. I found this link and was going to quote but the whole article may be an interesting read for anyone interested in crests.
www.calmhealthyhorses.com
I think that must be the understatement of the year.
We will test for cushings again if his coat isn't as I would expect. I was doing a happy dance when both started to cast their coats at the same time last week!what brilliant posts Red.
I did want to pick up on 2 points you made. First wee. It took me a while to realise wee/sugar/frequency.
secondly cushings/PPID. MIne (20yo) was clearly PPID and mostly likely EMS by the end of last year. Very long coat and very hairy legs. Couldn't be tested but without any doubt PPID>
started on 1 pergoquin beg dec 2024. It didn't seem to be doing very much for him. Coat had grown over the summer and was becoming impossible and he was very difficult to clip, his legs and most areas back from the saddle were no go areas.
I struggled along with EMS until Mid March. Difficult in getting weight off and he didn't look very good when he lost some. Everyone started moulting early March and he was losing about 6 strands of hair a day. We were going to be here forever. Decided by end of March if no progress it was all going. That took a long time taking a cushings coat off bit by bit each day with a tiny pair of clippers. It got to the stage when he could no longer have an exercise sheet on which hid the "hacked mess" so everyone saw as he was ridden.
By the end of April got it all including his legs off.
By around April we were considering haylage. He was off grass. Now about 4 months further on he has not only not grown any coat back (last summer by this time he was becoming a Yak) his coat is back to being very thin and silky yellow. (he is dun) Legs haven't grown back. Grooming him I have loose hair coming out.
diet is no grass (or only what is around the edge of his track which is minimal) haylage, S/b and thunderbrooks chaff. and balancer, aimed for everything to be under 10%. It has made an amazing difference to the cushings. I am in fact totally gobsmacked at the improvement to his coat. I never dreamed that I would ever get the silky yellow coat of his youth back again.
I think that must be the understatement of the year.
Thank you SO MUCH for posting this, and giveLate to the party but I'm another who has their first EMS/pot cushings horse.
Rigs is another happy tale. He is now 20 yrs and in work, happy, looks fabulous and is living his best life.
View attachment 165230
I bought him, aged 15, in 2020, knowing he was compromised. He was just finishing 3 months of box rest for lami, had an EMS score of 236 (from memory) and borderline cushings of 27.5. He was also asthmatic.
I didn't X ray as the farrier said that on the fronts, you could see how rotated his pedal bones were by the nasty bulge in the sole. He'd always been barefoot so thankfully had thick soles, but was wearing his first ever set of shoes, as per the vets orders, put on by the previous owners. I'm guessing that not walking on bulging pedal bones was more comfortable at the time. He was also stiff in his hocks, having been locked in a small stable for the three months.
Yes, I know I was daft to buy him
The previous owner had done a good job of slimming him down in the three months. You could feel and faintly see a rib at the back.
I knew that I knew naff all about Lami, EMS and cushings, so called a vet out to have a conflab. My vet was from a large animal hospital and, sadly, I found he was more interested when I had expensive competition animals rather than a broken down old cob. So, I switched vets to an independent.
They sent a lovely vet who talked to me for over an hour, assessing and advising.
They advised he was still in a crucial stage and didn't do other than a resting test at the time, as he was going to be on a full regime anyway. He said that we could do drugs but, if I was on board, we could also try to reverse the EMS by drastic dieting. He also allowed shoe removal, as long as he was kept on a soft bed and turned out on the arena, which was literally carpeted. I got a specialist trimmer, at over £100 a throw, to start to re-balance his feet, and a body worked to address the tensions from him standing in a lami stance.
He was started with walking on the road only as far as comfortable. This initially was 100yds or so! He was ridden on the arena, for weight loss, only at walk to start with.
Dieting was savage! He was allowed 8kg of well soaked and rinsed hay a day. It was all weighed, and he was on non edible bedding. He had a small amount of speedy beet and molasses free chop to carry vitamins.
The vet asked me to undertake no grass for a year.
Did I say the dieting was savage? I kept having to call the vet out because, to me, he became far too thin. I was happy to see the last three ribs, but that was, apparently, not enough. The vet wanted to see ALL of his ribs. This was hard work for a chunky cob!
I tried to give some straw as a filler. The vet said that would make him more prone to colic, but I decided to risk it for his mental welfare and to hopefully stave off ulcers. I then felt stupid as he did colic, and nearly died. No more straw!
He lost the fat pads on his neck as he lost practically all fat on him! I had to call the vet out to say have I gone too far! The vet said no, keep the diet.
People said he was too thin and I was cruel. I got the vet to examine him and no, he was as he needed to be.
I would not have kept on this regime permanently, as I questioned his quality of life. But the vet said there was a good chance of reversing the condition, so I carried on.
That spring, we did the full fasting/sugar test.
He
Was
negative!
Very low score, normal! The vet and I were both laughing!
He started on a little grass, 20 minutes a day with a muzzle, and built it up from there. That summer, he made it to 4 hours a day, muzzled, usually in 2 X 2 hr blocks.
I find his wee is the best indicator of is he is having too much sugar. More wee means cutting back.
Yes, the next winter I put him on high fibre Horsehage. He eats one bale every 2 days. It is expensive but I simply could not do another winter of intensive soaking.
He can have slightly less of that, and I was using the ridiculously small holed nets, and even then having to feed at 6am, 12.00 midday, 4pm and 9pm, just to spread it out. Even those nets would be gone in half an hour. He ate through some in frustration. It was a bind, being home every 4 hours day in day out.
Next spring, he was tested again. Cushings not any further an issue. EMS now better than before. He was on more grazing, muzzled, up to 8 hours a day, split into two. We also built him a patio from the back door of his stable, so he could have more time looking around. Weight was allowed back on, 3 ribs was enough, yay! I stopped having to cover him up with a rug! Yes, I was so ashamed of how he looked, despite it being under vets orders.
Sadly, Mr Red died suddenly and unexpectedly, in 2023. Since then, I have a new boyfriend, who happens to be a designer/inventor/manufacturer, with his own plastics fabrication business. He too found it frustrating that we had to be home every 4 hours. He designed and built Rigs a slow hay feeder.
View attachment 165232
This was fab as it keeps the haylage dry and takes him 2 hours to browse his way through the forage. It has a hopper shape inside to allow the haylage down. As he was sound, he was working more. He even taught the boyfriend to ride.
View attachment 165233
Rigs had trouble with his asthma, needing an inhaler in summer, but my boyfriend designed and made a new muzzle that was better ventilated. He now shows no symptoms and is not medicated at all.
I wonder how much his seasonal asthma was related to the muzzles, as he was not so bad in winter. With this one, he is now grazing 16 hours a day straight.
View attachment 165234
This year, I tried to book him in for more blood tests but the vet said not to bother. He has remained asymptomatic for EMS and Cushings, is fit and happy, rock crunching barefoot over any ground and generally behaving like a 20 yo should know better! He is keen to ride, but kind and responsive.
He is still on Horsehage and restricted grazing either by virtue of bare fields or muzzle. I would not feed dry hay, although BF also made an easy hay soaker if I do need to revert to hay instead of haylage. I watch his crest like a hawk, monitor he pee output. If either are not good, he is worked more rather than restricted.
I know it will always be a balancing act. The vet warned that there was never a 'cure' for EMS, it is more that he is in remission and we must always take care.
I like that he is having a normal horse life and we have balanced risk with quality of life. If, at 20 years old, I get the balance wrong, I can live with that as I do believe I pulled out all the stops to learn about something that was new to me. That is even if he has a relapse and is PTS.
He is on no medication. He is really easy to keep, only needing oil rubbing into the backs of his knees. He used to have filled legs and the start of CPL. The legs no longer fill and the CPL has not advanced further. his feet pretty much self-trim, but we do balance them ourselves, with an angle grinder LOL, which makes it quick and easy.
He is healthier at 20 than he has been since I've known him.
Dieting was savage, it felt cruel at times, but I trusted in the vet and it paid off. It was only for just less than a year for the reversal to happen. We don't plan on any further blood tests as he is on a regime that supports him and he is symptom free. He started casting his coat this year and looks fab. If he struggles, I will test again. But, I also decided that I would not go through the starving him again. If, on this regime he reverts to EMS/lami, then I have done my best and it is not to be. As a short term measure, stabling and starving was OK, as it has led to a long and healthy time. If it is not enough, then I feel that I did my best.
He doesn't half look and feel good on it though!
so was I. It doesn't take much to make horse people happy.
So am I, and I really thought I knew a lot about EMS.so was I. It doesn't take much to make horse people happy.
good idea for a thread FO. I am learning lots.
Of course!
Certainly not you paddyso was I. It doesn't take much to make horse people happy.
good idea for a thread FO. I am learning lots.
I do but sadly haven't seen any effect on blubber!
I did feed them to the EMS/PPID one before I realised that was what he was. I don't think looking back they made any difference and as SEL says certainly not to the blubber.
