EMS management support/solidarity thread?

Rigs had a balancer that was supposed to be a fat fighter; it had cinnamon and something else. I can't remember the name of it!

When his legs used to swell, he had marigold and cleavers.
 
Since mine been on prascend doesn’t like her food now. She has spillers lite balancer , tiny amount of fast fibre , cinnamon, rosehips, mag ox and milk thistle but she’s decided she longer wants it 🙈
 
On the subject of supplements for EMS

Magnesium = cofactor for insulin receptor binding so improves insulin sensitivity
Nerve transmission & bodily fluid regulation depends on potassium, calcium and magnesium in right ratios

Cinnamon = insulin potentiating so increases successful binding, so lowers blood sugar & certain polyphenols mimic insulin

Chromium = v similar to magnesium in that it is an enzyme co factor. Both often lacking in modern pasture

Nettle = contains anti diabetic compound (at least one from memory, maybe more, highest in concentration in leaves of young plants) that improves blood glucose response to glucose challenge & reduces BG over time

Astragalus = increases adiponectin as contains compounds that can bind to relevant receptors in WAT so good for reducing body mass and sensitivity to insulin

If anyone knows any others can you add them please
 
I feed both my EMS and ex laminitic oily herbs. I suspect my Connie has had ulcers in the past and he is always less stressy and bitey when he’s on them.

Just so people are aware nettles can be high in iron which isn’t good for EMS livers so if you do feed them moderation is advised. I’m on ironstone soil and our water is a spring fed source through the stone which is just about the worst combination ever for DP so they both get milk thistle all the time.
 
HappyHollyDays said:
I feed both my EMS and ex laminitic oily herbs. I suspect my Connie has had ulcers in the past and he is always less stressy and bitey when he’s on them.

Just so people are aware nettles can be high in iron which isn’t good for EMS livers so if you do feed them moderation is advised. I’m on ironstone soil and our water is a spring fed source through the stone which is just about the worst combination ever for DP so they both get milk thistle all the time.
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This is the reason I stopped feeding the whole plant, buy extract capsules now instead. And I worry about EDCs due to being surrounded by a land it's used on & on very porous soil.
 
I suppose milk thistle would be a good option regardless as it helps the liver which would be under strain with laminitis/Ems... Same with cleavers then, as they encourage the lymphatic system to "flush" 🤔
 
FieldOrnaments said:
On the subject of supplements for EMS

Magnesium = cofactor for insulin receptor binding so improves insulin sensitivity
Nerve transmission & bodily fluid regulation depends on potassium, calcium and magnesium in right ratios

Cinnamon = insulin potentiating so increases successful binding, so lowers blood sugar & certain polyphenols mimic insulin

Chromium = v similar to magnesium in that it is an enzyme co factor. Both often lacking in modern pasture

Nettle = contains anti diabetic compound (at least one from memory, maybe more, highest in concentration in leaves of young plants) that improves blood glucose response to glucose challenge & reduces BG over time

Astragalus = increases adiponectin as contains compounds that can bind to relevant receptors in WAT so good for reducing body mass and sensitivity to insulin

If anyone knows any others can you add them please
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Fat hen - although I use the Equibiome supplement because no one will eat the fresh stuff
 
FieldOrnaments said:
What does it do and how? Fresh fat hen is supposed to be quite sharp raw I think.

Never mind ignore me I found papers 😁
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I was just about to post links! Some evidence of lowering blood sugar.

I popped the Appy on it when her insulin got to 166 last Jan and they'd dropped to 60 ish when we next tested. Could well have been a rogue hay bale but its not too expensive.
 
The first article I found said "nonsignificant" rise in AST and ALT. Trouble is lot of extracts use either ethanol as the solvent or methanol which are not exactly kind to the liver either and alkaloids and saponin glycosides are majority processed there too and not all in a plant will be good; some will have beneficial effects, some won't do anything, some will have negative effects. Plus horses tend to need a lot; 50-60mg/kg in a 260gram rat isn't much of the solvent but for a 400kg horse it becomes a lot and regardless of affects on cells everything needs processing through kidney nephron ect and increases the "workload" of these organs iyswim.
So it's a balancing act really between potential cost and potential benefit. But good to have all the possible options in one place for people to make informed decisions on what's best for their horse
 
I have an EMS pony. 10 years and counting of this. She is currently in her stable full time as she became footy, though I couldn't find anything but the faintest (normal) digital pulse and her feet were cold. I check every day. However, she is looking porky so she is in.

Thank you so much @Red-1 for your account of how you managed your cob. I have been through similar in the past and thought I had it all tightly controlled but new yard, hot summer, grass too short for grazing muzzle, too much time out and here we are again. I became too complacent.

I'm aiming for the sight of ribs and have a good plan in place but I worry that well-meaning liveries might take pity on her and throw the odd bundle of hay in which will cock up my micro-managed plan. I have put a notice up to say that she has EMS and laminitis so please don't feed her but, you know :confused:

How do you deal with rogue feeding?
 
dreamcometrue said:
I have an EMS pony. 10 years and counting of this. She is currently in her stable full time as she became footy, though I couldn't find anything but the faintest (normal) digital pulse and her feet were cold. I check every day. However, she is looking porky so she is in.

Thank you so much @Red-1 for your account of how you managed your cob. I have been through similar in the past and thought I had it all tightly controlled but new yard, hot summer, grass too short for grazing muzzle, too much time out and here we are again. I became too complacent.

I'm aiming for the sight of ribs and have a good plan in place but I worry that well-meaning liveries might take pity on her and throw the odd bundle of hay in which will cock up my micro-managed plan. I have put a notice up to say that she has EMS and laminitis so please don't feed her but, you know :confused:

How do you deal with rogue feeding?
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I am lucky that mine are kept at home, behind a 6' electric gate!
 
HappyHollyDays said:
I feed both my EMS and ex laminitic oily herbs. I suspect my Connie has had ulcers in the past and he is always less stressy and bitey when he’s on them.

Just so people are aware nettles can be high in iron which isn’t good for EMS livers so if you do feed them moderation is advised. I’m on ironstone soil and our water is a spring fed source through the stone which is just about the worst combination ever for DP so they both get milk thistle all the time.
Click to expand...
Interesting you say that about nettles as I don't feed them as a supplement but both my ponies will clear any that grow in the field as well as thistles and the DHP is usually quite savvy about what naturally growing plants are good for him to eat...it's good grass and adlib hay he has issues with!... Even when he came off Dartmoor he tested zero for worms and did for years until I moved yards so I always assumed he was eating something that killed them off so I'm going to watch to see if he's eating or avoiding any nettles at the moment.
 
I didn't know this. It came up on FB from Avon Ridge equine vets.

We do not start pergolide (or cabergoline) and ertugliflozin at the same time. Here’s why:
While these two medications can be used together, and in many horses with EMS and PPID it’s often necessary—starting them both at once can be dangerous.
If started together it can sometimes trigger dehydration, colic, or even life-threatening conditions like hyperlipemia.
The result? A sick horse or pony and an emergency that could have been avoided.
The key is getting the timing, starting dose, and order right—and that only comes with the correct veterinary advice.
 
Waiting anxiously for Divas blood results after 4 weeks of ertugiflozin aka "erg!" Because I still don't know how to pronounce it.
Of course it has to be a bank holiday so probably Tuesday
Really fretting: she's lost 21kg overall so can see 4-5 ribs now but still got puffy eyes. Doing in overnight, with soaked hay, straw and Dengie herbal stuff (whatever the one in the blue bag with the spotty on is called) with various supps in. Then out on bare paddock in the day with a bit of soaked hay, set up so not a track but they are moving more/not just a square of earth
Though not helped by the fact that she's figured out how to unlatch her door if you don't push it all the way down. Exercise stopped this week because tb needs to be in when doing anything with anyone else but his door broke. 🙄 Great timing as it seemed to be helping both weight loss and hocks...

I am ✨✨✨ stressed ✨✨✨🙃 Remind me why we own horses again please😂 doing research into copper/zinc/selenium and IR. our soil is, as I expect a lot of UK agricultural land is, high in everything 'bad' and low everything 'good'. from memory they are also enzyme co factors (well they are but it's just are they involved enough in the process for supplementing them to be potentially beneficial).
 
Fingers crossed here for a good result, and well done with the weightloss! You can only do as much as you can.

Hope the door is repaired as soon as it can be, and then you'll be riding again too.

I don't think diabetic humans who are on ertugliflozin are told to concentrate on their vit & min deficiencies: the main factor really is weight and exercise for getting insulin down. As you know already of course - just a reminder not to worry too much about that particular factor.
 
I have forage plus powder balancer but no one gets the full amount because it smells vile. When it runs out I'm going back to Pro Earth copper/zinc/selenium mix. Its a teeny, tiny scoop so easier to hide and deals with my soil deficiency (& hay is from a few miles away so won't help)

I have Mg and Vit E separately.

I don't over think it these days tho. I used to be all over correct supplements but coats, feet, metabolism were no different to my current benign neglect!
 
Thank you both. Honestly we've had horses on this land 14yrs with no issues and having spoken to a local farmer - dairy and now beef, occasionally cross grazing with sheep - he doesn't supplement anything, and based off a local smallholders group no one else targets specific stuff either. I think I'm just stressing. 🤣Trying to tell myself even if the results are bad she's currently sound and bouncy and there's not really anything else we could have done at this point 🤷
 
SEL said:
I don't over think it these days tho. I used to be all over correct supplements but coats, feet, metabolism were no different to my current benign neglect!
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Me too. :D The horses get a supplement. 3 get equimins AC, it is a small quantity and they eat it well. The other gets Spillers L & L. I shall be moving one old horse (25) off equimins and onto Spillers balancer for next winter as he is old and I feel he could use a little more than a supplement. They get vit e all fed separately.

That is it, I feel I've done what I can and the rest can be put down to benign neglect. There is a limit as to what you can do FO.
 
paddy555 said:
Me too. :D The horses get a supplement. 3 get equimins AC, it is a small quantity and they eat it well. The other gets Spillers L & L. I shall be moving one old horse (25) off equimins and onto Spillers balancer for next winter as he is old and I feel he could use a little more than a supplement. They get vit e all fed separately.

That is it, I feel I've done what I can and the rest can be put down to benign neglect. There is a limit as to what you can do FO.
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Logicallyi know there is a limit (I mean, the best thing I could do would be purchase my own land and have a grass free track, but the last lot of land I saw for sale round here was £600k .... 🤷

"What will be will be and whatever comes I'll know I've done everything I can".
 
Weigh taped everyone the other day, mate is the only one with weight to lose, she's struggled with the sugars this year despite not really having any grass. What's around is like a concentrated shot I guess! The boy who is my suspicion of cushings/EMS is a good weight and has his ribs just showing, always bloated looking belly and puffy sheath. I know they are symptoms of it, but I don't know how to relieve them. The grass (stalks) on the track is getting well trodden, and watching them on the camera through the day shows me they aren't always munching, they spend a lot of time dozing in the shelter. After looking at supplements and working out costings etc, I think I'll just go for spillers lite and lean balancer to keep it easier and beneficial for everyone, I tied myself up in knots trying to work out everything for them individually, and it was a bit ridiculous to be honest! I'm a bit more aware after this year and am already planning how to manage next year, I don't want to be caught out again with crazy grass due to weather. Hoping to utilise hay mainly all year, especially if the analysis comes back good 🤞🏻
 
Mine is off the grass and in a bare pen with a a net of hay straw mix. I was soaking nets of hay but my shoulder tendons are weak (already had surgery in 2019 to repair them after they ruptured completely) so I had to stop that malarkey. I'm so glad I moved to this yard as its the only one in a series of yards that gladly provide off grass turnout. I'm walking her in the sand school for exercise and now up to 40 minutes of that.
 
Great info on this thread.
My EMS mare is on a grass free track and fed a mixture of wetted or soaked hay and Timothy haylage. She gets Thunderbrooks healthy herbal 2 x day with Equimins AC, magnesium, Insu-Pro herbs (from Horse Herbs), Vitamin E and salt. I was giving FP natural vitamin E but have recently switched to Omega Vitamin E oil, which I think is having a noticeable beneficial effect. Her coat seems shinier. She tends to get tiny scabby lumps on her heels/fetlocks, like a sort of never ending very mild mud fever, but they have all disappeared so I'm very happy with the change.

Does anyone else struggle to find treats for their EMS horses? I'm not generally a treater or hand feeder, but EMS mare is tremendously food driven so I use treat rewards for mounting, well behaved gate opening, plus whatever other ridden training I happen to be doing. Treats hang in a dog treat bag on the saddle so she knows they are there and doesn't bother me for them on the ground. I use these two types, no ill effects as her insulin was down to 8 on last testing:

Boomerang Nutrition (the Coolstance Copra people) "Healthy Herbal Treats"

Protein 9.3%

Fibre 26%

Oil 4.2%

Ash 5.3 %

Starch 1%

Non-Structured Carbohydrates (NSC) 6.4%

Digestible Energy (DE) 7.9 MJ DE/KG

And also Horse Straights Direct Cinnamon Treats which are molasses free but I can't find an actual breakdown beyond what's on the packaging:

horsestraightsdirect.co.uk

Cinnamon (True) Treats

Cinnamon (True) Treats - 100% Natural Horse Herbs & Supplements by Horse Straights Direct
horsestraightsdirect.co.uk horsestraightsdirect.co.uk
 
I agree about their drive for treats. I have switched to tiny pieces of carrot about the size of my little finger. She only gets 6 of these a day while she is on the weight loss programme.
 
Landcruiser said:
Great info on this thread.
My EMS mare is on a grass free track and fed a mixture of wetted or soaked hay and Timothy haylage. She gets Thunderbrooks healthy herbal 2 x day with Equimins AC, magnesium, Insu-Pro herbs (from Horse Herbs), Vitamin E and salt. I was giving FP natural vitamin E but have recently switched to Omega Vitamin E oil, which I think is having a noticeable beneficial effect. Her coat seems shinier. She tends to get tiny scabby lumps on her heels/fetlocks, like a sort of never ending very mild mud fever, but they have all disappeared so I'm very happy with the change.

Does anyone else struggle to find treats for their EMS horses? I'm not generally a treater or hand feeder, but EMS mare is tremendously food driven so I use treat rewards for mounting, well behaved gate opening, plus whatever other ridden training I happen to be doing. Treats hang in a dog treat bag on the saddle so she knows they are there and doesn't bother me for them on the ground. I use these two types, no ill effects as her insulin was down to 8 on last testing:

Boomerang Nutrition (the Coolstance Copra people) "Healthy Herbal Treats"

Protein 9.3%

Fibre 26%

Oil 4.2%

Ash 5.3 %

Starch 1%

Non-Structured Carbohydrates (NSC) 6.4%

Digestible Energy (DE) 7.9 MJ DE/KG

And also Horse Straights Direct Cinnamon Treats which are molasses free but I can't find an actual breakdown beyond what's on the packaging:

horsestraightsdirect.co.uk

Cinnamon (True) Treats

Cinnamon (True) Treats - 100% Natural Horse Herbs & Supplements by Horse Straights Direct
horsestraightsdirect.co.uk horsestraightsdirect.co.uk
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Might be worth looking into pelleted/cubed forages - even something like this if you don't need huge amounts?

smallpetselect.co.uk

Hay Cubes - Timothy

Mix up the chewing experience with our hay cubes, perfectly sized for the little mouths of rabbits, guinea pigs, chinchillas, mice, hamsters, and gerbils. Go wild! These cubes are ALL timothy hay! Give as many of these as you'd like, as often as you want. Are they a treat, or are they a...
smallpetselect.co.uk smallpetselect.co.uk
 
Alternatively sweet potato can be given and is lower sugar than carrot/apple if you just need something to keep in a pocket for rewarding certain things, though not all like it.
 
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