EMS management support/solidarity thread?

My trimmer (Hoof Geek) advises against carrots, she reckons even a small amount is detrimental. I like the idea of Timothy cubes, but it seems a bit of a swizz of a treat. I did try Horse Herbs Nettle cubes (pure nettle), which she liked, but they are quite big and hard to break up smaller.
 
Landcruiser said:
My trimmer (Hoof Geek) advises against carrots, she reckons even a small amount is detrimental. I like the idea of Timothy cubes, but it seems a bit of a swizz of a treat. I did try Horse Herbs Nettle cubes (pure nettle), which she liked, but they are quite big and hard to break up smaller.
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Out of interest what's her reasoning behind no carrots? They are mostly water and less than 5% combined sugar and starch.
 
Red-1 said:
Treats are celery or dried rose hips (although I don't know the feed value of those but they seem very plain!).

My other horse does not regard these as treats at all!
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Oh rose hips are a good shout actually, I give them to my chinchillas and degus (both sugar intolerant). Clearly I'm having a brain fart. But trying to put together a post based off a paper I've just read that could have application in choosing 'better' grass species for EMS grazing for those that have their own land
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Oh rose hips are a good shout actually, I give them to my chinchillas and degus (both sugar intolerant). Clearly I'm having a brain fart. But trying to put together a post based off a paper I've just read that could have application in choosing 'better' grass species for EMS grazing for those that have their own land
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I buy a lami friendly grass seed mix for my paddocks. I think it was from Amazon and excluded rye.

ETA - and the newly sown patches have managed the dry weather much better than the old pasture.
 
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FieldOrnaments said:
Out of interest what's her reasoning behind no carrots? They are mostly water and less than 5% combined sugar and starch.
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She says she has observed, over many years, an improvement in horses when carrots are taken out of the diet, even small quantities of carrots. She offers no scientific evidence but that's good enough for me!
 
mine are doing OK but they are off grass so the rain and grass don't really matter to them. I feed carrots. I go along with the Claire McLeod view and I feed one very large carrot to each per day. They provide vit A.
Have done this for a very long time and cannot see any side effects.

I'm afraid I am a horrible owner and don't give treats for rewards. I expect them to stand at the mounting block and anywhere else and if we get to a gate I expect them to either push it open or pull it back. A really horrible owner. :eek::eek:

If I am walking past with the carrots I may given them a slice or not. I keep a few Mole Valley hi fibre cubes in my pocket and if we had a situation out riding I would use a couple of nuts to get them to breathe.
 
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I use small, low-sugar grass nuts as a treat. I’ve used carrots to train them to accept their grazing muzzle, but only because both of them weren’t particularly sure about having a bucket strapped to their face. Once they’re entirely comfortable with it as part of a daily routine, I can switch to lower-value treats to keep them sweet about it.

I feed an apple to cob after work, I usually stop her beside an apple tree and pick one for her before getting off. I’m thinking of training her to help with apple picking, to give her a proper job, although it may backfire 🤣
 
One of you posted that you use a refractor meter, Brix reader. Have you got a favourite galic crush to get the sap out to test grass. Yesterday with wet grass I managed just enough of a drop to test but today with the sun and drier sample even OH could not squeeze juice out to test. Meter is a lovely digital one so I want to be able to test daily and also helper when I am away.
 
Hobo2 said:
One of you posted that you use a refractor meter, Brix reader. Have you got a favourite galic crush to get the sap out to test grass. Yesterday with wet grass I managed just enough of a drop to test but today with the sun and drier sample even OH could not squeeze juice out to test. Meter is a lovely digital one so I want to be able to test daily and also helper when I am away.
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We use a refractometer. It’s just whatever garlic press we have in the flat. OH says he has to use a lot of force.
 
paddy555 said:
yes I have moved to HH (devon haylage timothy or native grass w herbs) analysis of these are on their website.

one EMS/PPID and the other I have had to keep completely off grass (for another reason) plus he was overweight and probably close to EMS anyway.

love it. No way are we going back.

horses love it. They have been on it around 4 months or so and they have "regulated" their appetite. Sugar was the problem of the EMS'/PPID horse, hay with any amount of sugar made him very spooky to ride, low sugar hay was fine except it was also low protein. There was no way I could be sure I could get very low sugar hay.

They seem a bit like overweight people. People have a craving for sugar so they eat and eat to try and fill up. Visiit to the cake shop and they want the whole shop. Then they get off the sugar. No addiction and they don't even look at the cakes. Not interested. My horses have become like that. Both get 5kg (actual weight) at night netted. They are yarded so can move but no field access. They don't have access to grass at all 24/7. One even leaves bits in the morning and we have to put the other one in to clear up.

I weigh out 5kg for the day and give them handfuls as the day goes on. Very pleased they have both lost weight on it and no suffering whatsoever. Also no wolfing. In fact now they are "adjusted" to it just normal calm eating. One even walks away and comes back a while later. On higher sugar hay or grass he would pig out 24/7 with no appetite control.
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I am currently soaking hay for my EMS horse and she is doing well on it re insulin levels but my yard owner isn’t happy about the amount of water I am using to soak and rinse hay ….. if I substituted with Timothy haylage would it be the same amount of sugar/ calories ? Our hay is low sugar anyway , I only soak half the ration … but it’s such a lot of work and mess and annoys everyone !
 
Fire sign said:
I am currently soaking hay for my EMS horse and she is doing well on it re insulin levels but my yard owner isn’t happy about the amount of water I am using to soak and rinse hay ….. if I substituted with Timothy haylage would it be the same amount of sugar/ calories ? Our hay is low sugar anyway , I only soak half the ration … but it’s such a lot of work and mess and annoys everyone !
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I have found that Devonhaylage timothy equal to low sugar hay for mine. I expect Marksway Timothy haylage would be the same. No idea about other brands.

mine reacts very badly (as in very very spooky when ridden) if he is fed normal hay. On late cut hay which was clearly low sugar he was very different and calm and on timothy he is equally different and calm.

I test my hay and haylage by his behaviour and timothy is OK. I would give it a try, I would guess it would be OK and an awful lot easier :D:D
 
paddy555 said:
I have found that Devonhaylage timothy equal to low sugar hay for mine. I expect Marksway Timothy haylage would be the same. No idea about other brands.

mine reacts very badly (as in very very spooky when ridden) if he is fed normal hay. On late cut hay which was clearly low sugar he was very different and calm and on timothy he is equally different and calm.

I test my hay and haylage by his behaviour and timothy is OK. I would give it a try, I would guess it would be OK and an awful lot easier :D:D
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Thanks I will try it
 
Hermosa is semi clicker trained, so I keep treats on hand to click-treat for certain things (sidepassing to a mounting block, crap like that). Since her EMS diagnosis, I have only been using celery, and she is really fed up with celery. She does the stuff she's well-trained to do anyway, then I have to shove it into her mouth, and for new stuff, like Spanish walk (I never said it was important), she rolls her eyes at me. "This isn't worth the effort for that shight."

Any recommendations for EMS friendly treats that are a little more exciting than celery? You can't blame her.
 
I use a few different ones.

Equilibrium Crunchies I think they are called. I also use rosehips. And Thunderbrooks minded nuts & orange peel & Thunderbrooks Meadow nuts. I've also used Horse Herbs herbal treats & Horse Herbs nettle cubes.

None have have triggered my (admittedly reversed) EMS native.
 
These have no added sugar at all - my horse loved them.

www.robinsonsequestrian.co.uk

Pure Healthy Horse Treats - 2kg

The perfect healthy snack for your horse. High-quality ingredients and palatable – horses love them. Low in energy, low in starch. No added sugar. Suitable for horses with Cushing’s, laminitis and...
www.robinsonsequestrian.co.uk www.robinsonsequestrian.co.uk
 
Caol Ila said:
Any recommendations for EMS friendly treats that are a little more exciting than celery? You can't blame her.
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My go to is tiny slithers of carrots. I’ll have a look for the numbers, but I’m pretty sure rosehips (especially dried ones!) are higher sugar than carrots, given that rosehips are fruit, albeit wild fruit.
 
stangs said:
My go to is tiny slithers of carrots. I’ll have a look for the numbers, but I’m pretty sure rosehips (especially dried ones!) are higher sugar than carrots, given that rosehips are fruit, albeit wild fruit.
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on the basis of below a piece of carrot as a reward may be say 1/10th of a medium carrot so if 1 medium carrot is 3g sugar then 1/10 is ridiculously small. I think that in the grand scheme of things with EMS horses a piece of carrot as a treat is not very important sugar wise. :)

Carrots are LOW IN SUGAR on a fresh basis at around 5%.
Compare this to a typical sugar content of hay of 8%:
🥕
1 medium carrot (60g) = 3g sugar
🟨
1 small bale slice of typical meadow hay (1kg) = 81g sugar

(courtesy of Clare McLeod)
 
another learning day, there seem to be so many of them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

vet came out to my EMS/PPID horse (teeth) and declared him a suitable weight. Wonderful. He is VERY reactive to sugar. Never knew this until last Autumn, just thought he was a very difficult horse to ride, spooky, could turn on 180 degrees and be back up the road fast.

Then I discovered what low sugar did for him. Dope on a rope to lead on the roads in hand, previously sometimes wondered if we would come home together. Low sugar and lovely horse to ride, far less spooking and spinning.
Had him settled on haylage/low sugar late cut hay, sugar beet etc and a hard short track with minimal grass on either side. Life was perfect. Bye Bye crazy horse.

Then yesterday came. Full alert, OH declared it was like sitting on a bundle of neurosis, my horse kept them very carefully pushed into the side of the road until we got home. Relief to see the yard gate

WTF, nothing has changed, not anything at all. Zilch. Didn't take into account though that we have a lot of trees and those around his track are rapidly moulting ash and withy. He was walking on a carpet of leaves as he munched his way along. If grass is high sugar then heaven knows the level in leaves as he thinks it is very high.

Shut him on a very short section with very limited leaves. Today he rode along like the good old "dope on the rope" What a difference.

So I suppose the moral of the story is that just because your EMS horse is kept "off grass" on a grass free track with soaked hay then don't forget to check if it is bordered by leafy trees.
 
My mare, an ex-lami, is cresty at the moment and living out 24/7. There’s no denying she’s overweight, which took me by surprise this year as she was fine most of the summer and then piled on weight in Aug/Sept. Off went the alarm bells in my head, she’s currently being brought back into work but having been a field ornament for 3 years and burdened with many options its been slower going than I hoped.
Stables and fenced in sand paddock will hopefully be in for January so in the mean time she’s muzzled and I’m furiously googling mag ox, will buy some today.
 
I found a system, and I was happy with it. Horse has been able to enjoy her five hours of turnout on grass (muzzled) because I've been able to control her weight with exercise. More than the average person rides, but it's fine. We can do that. The clock change has f*cked up my system. I can't throw on the saddle and then wander off on a 3+ hour hack anymore.

I've been riding her twice a day, a hack and a school, on days where that's possible. Trying to man up and get to the yard early enough for a 2+ hour hack on days where I don't have too much work on and the weather doesn't suck. Not many. I can't push it past sunset, even with a zillion lights on my horse, because the yard has views on these things and will probably evict me if I try (long story).

I guess the grass will become less good. So there's that.
 
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