Encouraging softness to the contact

Paint Me Proud

Paint Me Proud

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After some advice.

Kasper is coming on really well in this schooling but he is still very resistant to the contact and tends to put his head up and resist if you ask more of him.

I was wondering if there is any gentle training aids that I could use to encourage softness.
I dont mean like a market harborough to strap him down, but wanted to know if there is any genuinely good and 'kind' kit that may help?

p.s he is ridden in a myler comfort snaffle withouth flash.
 
Okay, personally other than lunging I wouldn't use any kind of kit to encourage 'softness', if he is resisting the contact he may be too weak, your hands or seat may be an issue, there could be a million reasons why!

Do you have a trainer regularly, does your trainer ever get on and ride?
 
Lots of work with flexion to the left and the right really helped my horse. He is now lovely and soft in front. Also forget about what the front end is doing - how much is he working from behind? Until he is working properly and in self carriage he won't be truly soft in front anyway. I'm sure others can explain this much better than me though. :)
 
'Make sure that you are using your seat and legs correctly, so that he is working from behind. Then he will indeed 'soften to the contact'. You may need a good instructor to help you with this. Please avoid anyone who tells you to 'fiddle' with the reins/your hands in any way.
 
I have lessons weekly and we have so far been working on improving his balance and suppleness, which are vastly imporved, so am ready to start asking for more roundness to the rein.

I give him a limit to the rein and then ask more of him with my seat and legs and he resists and just tries to shuffle faster. I did manage some nice roundness yesterday but it is difficult to maintain the softness without giving it away.

My instructor has ridden him and he is resistant for her too but does woften eventually.
Just dont think the penny has dropped completely with him yet that softenss = comfort!

I'm happy just working on him without 'gadgets' but did wonder if there was anything that may help just to use once a week maybe. Might just swap riding one day for lunging with side reins to help build up his muscle.

Any more suggestions on schooling exercises that may help too would be appreciated.
 
If he is putting his head up he is hollowing his back. Is your saddle comfortable for him and have you had his back done? If the answer to both those is yes, I would be looking at flexions (as above) and also some in hand work to explain to him how he needs to yield to the pressure. Use both reins to ask for a flex downward and the INSTANT he offers it release the pressure - after a couple of dozen times he will get the idea. And ridden circles and serpentines to get him engaging his hinds.
Oh, and try a straight bit if you have a jointed one, that can make them throw their heads up when the joint hits the roof of the mouth when it doesn't suit them for whatever reason.
I'm surprised your instructor hasn't looked at this sort of thing with you?
 
He needs to develop the correct musculature along his back/topline to enable him to carry his head in the way you want. It doesn't really have a great deal to do with 'contact', more with carrying himself correctly - you should b e asking him for self-carriage. Exercises to help him develop the correct muscles are transitions, between and within paces, pole-work, circles, lateral work, hill-work. But you have to make sure that you are asking correctly and allowing him to develop correctly by being in the correct position at all times.
 
Softness = comfort is the wrong way around IMO.

The backbone of that theory is that when you get a horse to soften to the frame you desire, you make its life more comfortable by stopping whatever you were doing to ask for the frame. This essentially means that a horse learns to put itself into a frame in order to be left a lone. It doesn't necessarily mean the horse is comfortable.

However, if you look at it from the point of view that, when the horse is truly comfortable, he will have no resistance or tension and therefore softness and roundness will be true and willing.

Very often, when a horse raises the head high to avoid working round it can be attributed to pinching from the saddle, rider weight/balance/distribution, lack of muscle/strength/fitness or issues within the mouth.

I would get a few things checked out and then work solely with the intention of encouraging the hind legs to engage and the back to swing and relax. Roundness or softness can be a secondary goal that does not come at the cost of the primary goal.

So, your primary goal is engagement and relaxation and your secondary goal is softness and roundness.

A great exercise for this is spiralling down from a large circle to a comfortably small circle (don't force the circle too small to the point it affects the horses ability to maintain free forward movement) and then leg yield out of the circle. Just ask for 1-2 steps of lateral and then continue on the circle, then ask for a few more steps of lateral, then continue on the circle.

Often horses like this can go really giraffe like in trot-canter-trot transitions so a way to kindly assist with encouraging softness through these transitions is to think of doing shoulder fore into and out of them.

There's loads that could be reasons for this and when the in laws have been, I will read through again and add anything if I others haven't, but there are many very experienced people on here like Princess Sparkle, Nikki Marriet etc (sorry for spelling errors) and many many others that are full of great advice but I would still advise a few basic checks and steering clear of any gadgets.
 
JillA said:
I'm surprised your instructor hasn't looked at this sort of thing with you?
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She has been, I'm just asking for a little extra advice.

He doesnt go around like a giraffe he's just not always carrying his head himself and generally resists if you ask him to. He does know how to work correctly but it takes a lot of persistance to get it and it is easily lost.

His saddle is fine, made to measure, regularly checked etc and I run my hands along his back after everey ride to make sure there are no sore spots developing. So no worries there.

I'm not looking for a quick fix, happy to continue working on it with him as he is still young. I havent really been asking for self carriage until now as was improving his balance, bend etc. Instructor said last night that we could now look at improving the softness.

Hope that all makes sense :)
 
JingleSmells said:
I would get a few things checked out and then work solely with the intention of encouraging the hind legs to engage and the back to swing and relax. Roundness or softness can be a secondary goal that does not come at the cost of the primary goal.

So, your primary goal is engagement and relaxation and your secondary goal is softness and roundness.

A great exercise for this is spiralling down from a large circle to a comfortably small circle (don't force the circle too small to the point it affects the horses ability to maintain free forward movement) and then leg yield out of the circle. Just ask for 1-2 steps of lateral and then continue on the circle, then ask for a few more steps of lateral, then continue on the circle.

Often horses like this can go really giraffe like in trot-canter-trot transitions so a way to kindly assist with encouraging softness through these transitions is to think of doing shoulder fore into and out of them.
Click to expand...

Have been doing all of this with my instructor and Kasper has improved immensely so she feel she is ready for more roundness.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
Have been doing all of this with my instructor and Kasper has improved immensely so she feel she is ready for more roundness.
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Then I'm afraid that your instructor is coming at this from the wrong end. You and she should be working on getting the hind end even more engaged, then the softness and roundness will come as the horse is better able to carry himself.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
Then I'm afraid that your instructor is coming at this from the wrong end. You and she should be working on getting the hind end even more engaged, then the softness and roundness will come as the horse is better able to carry himself.
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I have to agree with this. Is your instructor giving you exercises to help improve the roundness, have you been advised on things to try in between your lessons?

I do think this would be best coming from your instructor as h/she is there and can see the horse and you in action, but that is of course only if your instructor is on the same page as you and knows how to achieve what you want without force or tricks. Not making any judgements on your instructor, just saying, some are amazing, some are very one dimensional.

There can come a point in a horses education where they need a little extra encouragement and there can be a need to take up a little more of a contact/push a horse through where there is stubbornness but there is a very fine line between knowing when a horse is taking the mickey and you need to persevere and when a horse is not actually able to do something and needs a different approach.

It honestly sounds like your horse is telling you something and needs you/your instructor to listen well and hear what is going on. That's nigh on impossible to do over a forum, but where issues like this arise, in the absence of a physical issue, caused by a gap in the training somewhere along the line. Going right back to basics can be the best way sometimes if you don't know what the issue is and I would also advise even just one lesson with a different instructor. It is of no judgement on the current instructor, just that a fresh set of eyes can sometimes see things differently.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
Then I'm afraid that your instructor is coming at this from the wrong end. You and she should be working on getting the hind end even more engaged, then the softness and roundness will come as the horse is better able to carry himself.
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sorry I didnt make myself very clear. Yes th exercises we are doing are to encourage him to work through from behind into the contact. We arent just trying to haul his head in. We do a lot of exercises to get him using his back end and I ride him up to the contact from behind.
 
JingleSmells said:
It honestly sounds like your horse is telling you something and needs you/your instructor to listen well and hear what is going on. That's nigh on impossible to do over a forum, but where issues like this arise, in the absence of a physical issue, caused by a gap in the training somewhere along the line. Going right back to basics can be the best way sometimes if you don't know what the issue is and I would also advise even just one lesson with a different instructor. It is of no judgement on the current instructor, just that a fresh set of eyes can sometimes see things differently.

Hope that makes sense.
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I've had lessons with 3 other instructors who all acknowledged that he is young and still learning.

I dont think there is anything 'wrong' going on. He is just a young horse who is just at the stage of learning to soften and I wondered if there was anything I could use to help him understand. His not softening isnt a problem as he is only just leanring it and I know it will come.
 
If you think you're doing everything right and happy with your instructor and there are no physical issues then all you can do is be patient. Getting better means getting really good at the basics, every horse takes a different amount of time and you can't force it
 
Paint Me Proud said:
I've had lessons with 3 other instructors who all acknowledged that he is young and still learning.

I dont think there is anything 'wrong' going on. He is just a young horse who is just at the stage of learning to soften and I wondered if there was anything I could use to help him understand. His not softening isnt a problem as he is only just leanring it and I know it will come.
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Then you just need to continue what you are doing, without trying to force anything. Young horses need time and just as with people, muscles don't develop overnight.
 
thanks ridefast. I've had him 6 months now and only now happy that he is ready to start learning about softness. I'll just keep doing what i'm doing, the penny will drop with him eventually :)
 
If you stand in front of him and hold the reins just behind the bit he should flex & soften happily just with pressure on the bit to one side then another. Although it sounds a bit basic, it might be worth doing this till he is completely flexible each way before you school him. You can then really work on getting him working off your inside leg into the outside rein. If this is working properly then when you ask him to soften to the inside he should drop into a rounder outline.
My gelding struggled to work in a round outline as he has a short neck and a massive overtrack. I wanted to avoid him learning to evade and so didn't ask for roundness till he was more established . When asked though they should always be soft in the jaw, flexing at the poll and off the leg, after that is in place working rounder should be easy.
Might be worth going to some RC clinics or similar. If your horse struggles with this then often different eyes on the ground and instructors with different tools to hand can really make a difference.
 
siennamum said:
If you stand in front of him and hold the reins just behind the bit he should flex & soften happily just with pressure on the bit to one side then another. Although it sounds a bit basic, it might be worth doing this till he is completely flexible each way before you school him.
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Done that :D ;)
 
Well, form what you have said, I would just be patient and allow it to improve naturally as his strength and stamina improve. He sounds like a lovely willing young horse and you certainly sound like you are wanting to approach everything from the right angle so all I can do is wish you the very best of luck. It is usually one of those things that that you don't really notice improving all the time, then you look back at how you were and realise how much has improved.

Good luck with him xx
 
Paint Me Proud said:
Might just swap riding one day for lunging with side reins to help build up his muscle.
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Lunging can help a horse a lot, if it is done well. I suggest loosening him up first in walk and trot with no side reins,with changes of rein. Then clip the side reins on fairly loosely, so he has to search for the contact, and if he is happy with that, shorten them up a bit at a time making sure that he is never too short in the neck. Use plenty of changes of rein and free walk without the side reins.

This can certainly help him to strengthen and settle to the contact, whilst he is still working through from behind, and should help him when under saddle.
 
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