Entering a lower class to 'warm up'?

[Floxie]

Without my own trailer I am limited to how much I can get out and about, so my horse is still quite green when it comes to competing in new places. I'm working on keeping him calm and workmanlike whatever the situation but it's still the case that when he enters an arena for the first time, he'll be on his toes and puffed up. If there is a second chance he's much more settled.

I've been taking things slowly and only doing intro tests, though my instructor thinks we should be trying some prelim soon. She has suggested (and I've had others suggest) entering the intro first to 'warm up'.

Is this ever seen as acceptable? It just doesn't sit right with me. Of course it would be fab for my horse, who would be much more settled for the second test having seen the arena. And I'm a firm believer that you should (probably..!) only be competing against your own score whatever the class. But is it fair on the other intro competitors? I'm not sure how I'd feel about other people doing the same to me. I don't feel 'beyond' the intro competition and would put my all into both tests and get something out of both of them, but surely if I can enter prelim it's not fair on other people to also enter intro? I dunno, it just reminds me of our local show when I was a kid - this grown-up (heh!) with his mare would enter the novice jumping class, win it, then go on to win the intermediate AND the open - every month. I don't want to be that person!

I can sort of see it from both sides. What's the general opinion about it? What do you think personally?

 

[Lolo]

Most people do it in some shape or form, whether it's intro and prelim or prelim and novice... Unless the rules say you can't then you can!

 

[tase1965]

Hiya
There is no issue with this at all. If you don't get out much and with the expense and time involved it is often more beneficial to enter two classes.. If you were thinking you really were 'out' of the former class you could always enter HC.. Your reasons are good ones too - you want what's best for your horse rather than how many rosettes you can win..

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Well I do this with Topaz, we always enter two classes and generally at two levels. However the difference for me is that first test is generally not that competitive , and I think it make sense when you are moving up a level to do one test at the level the horse is confident with and then another which will test them more. I really don't see the issue as it's not like you're established at a much higher level and are just pot hunting?
So with Topaz we have done (since Jan) Prelim + Novice a few times, then Novice + Novice (concentrating on gaining enough points) and now we're doing Novice + Elementary, though I am hoping she will eventually settle without needing the first test. Also looking at the entries you'll see a lot of people doing this at dressage, so you definitely won't be alone.

x x

 

[ihatework]

Urm, I think you are over thinking this!!!!
Many horses go better in a second test and therefore use their first as a warm up!

 

[Jnhuk]

I would say that most folks enter two classes and use the first one for exactly that so would stop worrying about it. If you are personally that bothered about what other competitors think, then enter the intro class enter HC.

 

[gembear]

I'm fairly new to dressage and I always enter an Intro and Prelim - makes the trip more worth while, as well as getting the practice. I prefer to enter the restricted classes too, to make it more fair.

Last one though, I didn't realise the prelim was open so loads of people had entered as a warm up for the novice AND elementary - which I did think had a hint of ribbon grabbing.

 

[mrsh2010]

If in doubt you could always enter the Intro as H/C or Training.

But personally I don't see a problem. If you were to continually win the intro then you know you need to H/C or up the level, but until that happens do what's best for you and your horse

 

[Kikke]

have done it many times! Not a problem at all.
It's a bit like doing a clear round jumping before a competition round.

 

[3Beasties]

Definitely enter the two tests, that's what I always do as I would never go out just for one test, it's not worth it! When I first started doing dressage (end of last year) I did an intro test followed by a prelim on. Once I felt ready for it I moved on to doing 2 prelims. If I decide to give Novice a try I will enter a prelim test followed by a novice. I think that is fairly common practice.

 

[Theocat]

Lots of places offer two prelim tests, so that might be an option?

 

[khalswitz]

I always enter two tests - if we are newish and just getting established at a level, then we enter thefirst test at the lower level, otherwise if there are two classes at a level I'll do two.

 

[Walrus]

When we were moving from intro to prelim and our canter was still a bit dodgy we did the intro and the prelim. Now he's a bit more established (but nowhere near novice!) we will do 2 prelims, mine can go either way, better in the second or just a bit tired and annoyed that he has to go again!

 

[Stroppy Mare]

I've never really done intros, but when I did dressage regularly, I used to enter a prelim then a novice. I did it everytime. My horse is quite difficult and spooky so I'd rarely do well in my first class as we'd be too busy thinking the white boards were going to leap up and kill us.

Most places won't do two tests of the same level so it's difficult to do 2 prelims and I think by the time you've paid petrol, it's a waste to just go out for 1.

 

[Floxie]

Oh great, I'm glad it's not only accepted but common practice! Perhaps I was overthinking it but like I say I just keep picturing that bloke on his mare winning the jumping every level, every time!

What does H/C stand for?

 

[Stroppy Mare]

Oh great, I'm glad it's not only accepted but common practice! Perhaps I was overthinking it but like I say I just keep picturing that bloke on his mare winning the jumping every level, every time!

What does H/C stand for?

Hors Concours - basically you enter non competitively therefore doesn't matter if you're over qualified for the class as you're not competing in it, just there for the warm up or as a confidence round etc.

 

[windand rain]

Only issue I have with this is the same horse week after week winning the Intro, then the Prelim and the Novice. No issue with HC entries but pot hunting is a big no no in my book. If you are consistently winning at Intro then no its not alright if you are consistently placed under a single judge but have different one on the next one then Ok under a different judge but not under one who consistently places your horse.

 

[spookypony]

As others have said, it's common practice. Many venues offer two tests at every level, but only one Intro, it seems to me, so when you're just moving up to Prelim, it would be considered normal to enter Intro and Prelim. windand rain, the problem with the scenario you describe is that a horse is entering three consecutive levels; that's a bit dodgy, I think, and I think the venues I know wouldn't allow it.

Often, it's the second test at a level that's the qualifier for whatever sort of league or championship is on offer (unaffiliated or affiliated), and the unaffiliated leagues I've seen all tend to involve points systems to help prevent pot-hunting.

 

[Floxie]

Hors Concours - basically you enter non competitively therefore doesn't matter if you're over qualified for the class as you're not competing in it, just there for the warm up or as a confidence round etc.

Aah thanks - I did wonder whether it was possible to do that , but decided it couldn't possibly because the judges wouldn't want to waste their time sitting there all day watching non competitors! I presume you still have to pay entry, to put everybody off doing it and dragging the day out forever?

Seen 'hors concours' before but never knew what it meant

 

[3Beasties]

Only issue I have with this is the same horse week after week winning the Intro, then the Prelim and the Novice.

That's when I think it's unfair. If someone is competing two levels higher than a particular class it's time to ditch the lower class.

I moved on from Intro after a few months as I was scoring high 60's/low 70's and placed in the top 3 every time out. Our prelim attempts where not great initially but I felt uncomfortable staying at intro level based on our results so moved on up.

 

[ester]

I would pretty much say tests at one level apart absolutely fine. Tests further than that apart not so, and I can't imagine why you'd want to. Jumping pretty much have same thoughts

 

[burtie]

Aah thanks - I did wonder whether it was possible to do that , but decided it couldn't possibly because the judges wouldn't want to waste their time sitting there all day watching non competitors! I presume you still have to pay entry, to put everybody off doing it and dragging the day out forever?

Seen 'hors concours' before but never knew what it meant

Normally for a H/C dressage entry you'd be judged by the same judge as everyone else and get the score sheet at the end. You just wouldn't get a rosette or have you score put on the score board. The judge may not even know you are H/C.

 

[3Beasties]

I would pretty much say tests at one level apart absolutely fine. Tests further than that apart not so, and I can't imagine why you'd want to. Jumping pretty much have same thoughts

Would you have an issue if someone jumped 3 classes, 2ft, 2'3 and 2'6? Not going necessary going clear in any of them. Horse capable of height but horse and rider lacked confidence and course practice.

 

[applecart14]

Without my own trailer I am limited to how much I can get out and about, so my horse is still quite green when it comes to competing in new places. I'm working on keeping him calm and workmanlike whatever the situation but it's still the case that when he enters an arena for the first time, he'll be on his toes and puffed up. If there is a second chance he's much more settled.

I've been taking things slowly and only doing intro tests, though my instructor thinks we should be trying some prelim soon. She has suggested (and I've had others suggest) entering the intro first to 'warm up'.

Is this ever seen as acceptable? It just doesn't sit right with me. Of course it would be fab for my horse, who would be much more settled for the second test having seen the arena. And I'm a firm believer that you should (probably..!) only be competing against your own score whatever the class. But is it fair on the other intro competitors? I'm not sure how I'd feel about other people doing the same to me. I don't feel 'beyond' the intro competition and would put my all into both tests and get something out of both of them, but surely if I can enter prelim it's not fair on other people to also enter intro? I dunno, it just reminds me of our local show when I was a kid - this grown-up (heh!) with his mare would enter the novice jumping class, win it, then go on to win the intermediate AND the open - every month. I don't want to be that person!

I can sort of see it from both sides. What's the general opinion about it? What do you think personally?

I normally compete at Novice and Elementary but wouldn't dream of doing a prelim dressage test as a warm up. I would do two novice tests instead. If there was no other novice test that day then I would personally go without and do a novice and an elementary or just one novice. that said I have done a prelim test when getting my horse back into doing eventing/combined training after injury simply because the height I am prepared to jump to start with often means that the test will be prelim (if that makes sense).

 

[ester]

If I were said horse and rider 3beasties I would think it more beneficial to ask to go again HC at the end of the class than to do 3 classes - that and unaff that would usually be an awful lot of waiting around! Though no one is going to mind if you weren't competitive in the earlier classes - SJ you can make that call on the day which you can't do with pre booked dressage. Have known plenty do 2'3/2'6 and 2'9 classes competitively though . I competed F 2'3- 3'0 in the past but never in the same day and always for a reason.

 

[Piglet]

My horse always goes better in his 2nd test and for quite a while I used to to Intro for warm up and then a Prelim, now I am going to "brave" the Novice test but still use the Prelim as a warm up. I think if you are getting fantastic marks and winning every time then unless you go HC, I think people will start to get a bit pissy!!

 

[Lolo]

Even then I really don't think you need to go HC until the rules say you do. Last summer my sister was riding a very smart 5yo. He'd been backed that summer, and his canter was a bit lairy at best- fine for a small course of SJ in a nice big arena, but it worried him when he had to find his balance on a 20m circle. So she did intro with him so he could get used to it all. He got some amazing marks- he was very correct, the basics were great, he had lovely paces and also looked very sweet and obedient. But he was not ready for prelim by a long shot.

Ultimately, you compete for whatever reason whether it's outside opinions, fun or to win. But you can't think that you won't do something just because someone else might not like it. If you do better than them, that's up to them to work to improve and do better than you...

 

[humblepie]

Echo very much what Lolo says. You never know the background or reason why someone is competing at a certain level or in a certain class. I have gone H/C in the past when restoring confidence in a horse or obviously if ineligible for some reason but wanting to give a horse (or me!) and outing.

Go and enjoy!

 

[Floxie]

Will do, am looking forwards to it now Have always insisted to myself that dressage is more about improving your own score (and that makes you feel better if you don't place of course!) but I just wasn't sure what the general attitude with everyone else was!