Equ-Streamz - Your Experiences?

cptrayes said:
Oh Matt. If I had any respect for you or your product it's certainly gone now. That comment was made in response to you telling sceptics like me to 'get a life'. There has been not one word of personal attack against you, just the lack of professionalism in your insulting post.

While I'm here, please remove the claim that 100% of horse owners recommend your product from your site, it is not true.

And you might also like to correct 'arterial fibrillation', the correct term is 'atrial fibrillation'.
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"Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful." - Not aimed at anyone in particular.

It is a real shame the sourness of this post.

18 months ago I was running my own business in the corporate world: My godfather asked me to help launch his invention. I didnt believe. I tried a band on my ankle. My knee pain went. So.... I got a life, I started to make a difference, and I did something useful. Whilst you guys slate me and my company on this forum we receive emails of thanks from people, facebook messages supporting us, and so on.

I wish you all the luck and hope that one day your scepticism will turn more to intrigue.

PS - thanks for pointing out the typo and noted about 100%, slightly vague i agree. It should say, '100% of the people within our study group recommend the bands'

I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.
 
Matt at streamz said:
None of these relate to the original post.
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But they relate entirely to your posts on this thread, and the debate over the veracity of your claims of efficacy definitely relates to the OP, and anyone tempted to try them.

Matt at streamz said:
It is a real shame the sourness of this post.
...
I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.
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The only sourness here is coming from your posts I'm afraid.

I would be very concerned if my leg grew back. In fact, it would probably get in the way a bit if one did - most people find it easier with just two...
 
Matt at streamz said:
"Some people: get a life, actually make a difference, and do something useful." - Not aimed at anyone in particular.

It is a real shame the sourness of this post.

18 months ago I was running my own business in the corporate world: My godfather asked me to help launch his invention. I didnt believe. I tried a band on my ankle. My knee pain went. So.... I got a life, I started to make a difference, and I did something useful. Whilst you guys slate me and my company on this forum we receive emails of thanks from people, facebook messages supporting us, and so on.

I wish you all the luck and hope that one day your scepticism will turn more to intrigue.

PS - thanks for pointing out the typo and noted about 100%, slightly vague i agree. It should say, '100% of the people within our study group recommend the bands'

I would assume if they made your leg grow back you wouldnt give them a go now anyway.. real shame.
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And now childishness added to lack of professionalism.

I don't need to get a life Matt, but you have a serious need of some customer relations, marketing and business start up training.
 
Matt at streamz said:
I was really intrigued until I saw your response when challenged on the science. I remain intrigued but sceptical and very much look forward to seeing future scientific evidence as I am very open minded as to how these things work. I do wish you all the best with your business and would urge you to see the responses on here as they were intended - not as personal attacks but as genuine enquiries on the science behind the claims for which you cannot berate them.
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Swirlymurphy said:
I was really intrigued until I saw your response when challenged on the science. I remain intrigued but sceptical and very much look forward to seeing future scientific evidence as I am very open minded as to how these things work. I do wish you all the best with your business and would urge you to see the responses on here as they were intended - not as personal attacks but as genuine enquiries on the science behind the claims for which you cannot berate them.
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Thank you and point taken.

I am NOT a scientist and not any any stage have said anything to the contrary. We are paying organisations to carry out these trials and I am sure that if i asked their scientists are not sitting on forums like this. (with how much they charge I certainly hope not!) Someone involved in marketing or sales, or in my case someone who cares about their business and all its existing partners, would.

And to cap the day off nicely: (Because whatever anyone says RESULTS are the most important thing to people that own the horse) ....The original post which was a genuine request for advice has today purchased the bands. I have asked for them to feedback their results so watch this space...

Have a nice evening and let me know if you want to try a band on yourself (my shout)
 
JFTD said:
Firstly, please stop making claims you cannot support. There are no published, peer reviewed, double blind trials, therefore you have no basis for that claim beyond anecdotal evidence. And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Secondly, I would be careful who you are suggesting has "little understanding". I'm fairly willing to bet Ester and I have at least one bioscience degree more than you apiece and god knows how many years of experience in this field between us. If you claim to have made a wristband which acts like a cyclotron, I suggest you revisit your high school physics and question your own understanding of your "product".

Thirdly, facebook is not a well respected medium through which to publish scientific data.

Fourthly, who controls what is posted on your facebook page? I run pages and I know that I have the power to delete spam, irrelevant or undesirable posts, as do most companies who use social media. #shwmaegate

Finally, I have a life, I make many differences to other people's lives in the course of it (sometimes they're even positive) and I do many useful things. Debunking bad science is one of those things :)
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*applause*
 
Matt at streamz said:
Thank you and point taken.

I am NOT a scientist and not any any stage have said anything to the contrary. We are paying organisations to carry out these trials and I am sure that if i asked their scientists are not sitting on forums like this. (with how much they charge I certainly hope not!) Someone involved in marketing or sales, or in my case someone who cares about their business and all its existing partners, would.

And to cap the day off nicely: (Because whatever anyone says RESULTS are the most important thing to people that own the horse) ....The original post which was a genuine request for advice has today purchased the bands. I have asked for them to feedback their results so watch this space...

Have a nice evening and let me know if you want to try a band on yourself (my shout)
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Thank you for the offer and I will send you a PM.
 
acorn92x said:
http://www.streamz-global.com/equ-streamz/

Has anyone brought/used/trialled or been given a pair of these bands? I'm seriously tempted to buy them for my girl (No ailments as such, just a small splint on her near fore) but the outlay is quite large for something that might not be even remotely helpful!

I've been following the Facebook and Twitter pages that are run by Equ Streamz with keen interest and they seem to have had nothing but rave reviews so I'm now thinking they could be a worthwhile investment!

I went and spoke to the team at the Royal International Horse Show at Hickstead last Friday and they were tremendously helpful and I keep asking myself why I just didn't buy a pair there and then (They had 20% off them too!), although my OH being a bit bored and fracious after having to poke up with me getting excited over things he didn't have the foggiest idea about all day may have had something to do with it...

ANYWAY! Have any of you guys had exeprience with these, and if so, do you care to share whether they have been positive before I bite the bullet and invest? :)
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I bought a pair of these bands at Hickstead after my mum was fortunate enough to be allowed to trial one of these bands overnight (we were at Hickstead for 2 days) - she noticed a difference in herself (has Lymphedema) overnight so that reassured me enough that I should splash out and buy a pair for my horse (21 year old and stiff).

I used them on myself for a week before passing them on to my horse and they greatly improved my mobility in the time that I spent using them.

Now my horse wears them he has increased mobility, reduced swelling in his hocks, more energy, takes less time to warm up and seems much better in himself in general. I am so pleased that I bought a pair.

Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK! There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message. I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.
 
The scientists' issue with all of that is that it could all be down to your perception. That is fine but I find it unfair that people may be profiting from that without good scientific evidence to back it up - by which I am not talking full blown clinical trials a publication in even the lowest rated of scientific journals would do and at least people would then know the full methodology used and the results rather than what they pick and choose to include in their marketing.
 
nonono said:
Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK! There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message. I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.
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Glad that your horse seems to have improved since wearing these bands. Whether or not the bands were in any way responsible for the improvement, is another matter!

Despite having a scientific background, I am a sucker for trying out something new and unproven based on 'recommendations' :o. I first heard of the Equ-Streamz when it was endorsed by an HHO blogger I follow. I believe that the blogger has a science degree, so I followed the link provided to the product website. I was minded, at that time, to purchase a pair of the bands.

Unfortunately, the website was so poor (as previously mentioned, there is not even a photo of the product on it!), and the description of the bands and the science behind them so sparse, that I did not proceed further.

I thought no further of it until this thread popped up, which has confirmed my initial misgivings.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Glad that your horse seems to have improved since wearing these bands. Whether or not the bands were in any way responsible for the improvement, is another matter!

Trust me, the bands are most definitely fully responsible for this horses improvement, unless some magic fairy has sent him some kind of potion that he hasn't told me about ;-) - I battled for years to try to get him right but never found a product to help him to this extent - whatever they are made from and whatever they do they have improved his well being, best £80 I ever spent :-)
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I repeat: placebo effect, regression to the mean. People are welcome to spend their money how they choose, but I do have a major issue with companies who take people's money by making unsubstantiated claims and perpetuating bizarre pseudoscience. I don't need to try the bands to know that this is an issue in this case.
 
Saw my chiropractor yesterday as I do every 2 months. I have only worn my band since i saw him last so. Incidentally he could tell the difference in the alignment of my pelvis to what it normally is after 2 months, despite me having had a REALLY stressful period which normally makes me worse than normal.

His words to me were ' as a scientist I am interested in the science of it, as a practitioner I say that if it works for you then keep wearing it' .

And my farrier has confirmed that our mares splint is indeed getting smaller, she has worn hers as long as I have used mine so 2 months........

I also use Bioflow boots which were MUCH more expensive to buy ........
 
nonono said:
I bought a pair of these bands at Hickstead after my mum was fortunate enough to be allowed to trial one of these bands overnight (we were at Hickstead for 2 days) - she noticed a difference in herself (has Lymphedema) overnight so that reassured me enough that I should splash out and buy a pair for my horse (21 year old and stiff).

I used them on myself for a week before passing them on to my horse and they greatly improved my mobility in the time that I spent using them.

Now my horse wears them he has increased mobility, reduced swelling in his hocks, more energy, takes less time to warm up and seems much better in himself in general. I am so pleased that I bought a pair.

Whatever the science behind them is really of no great interest to me as I own a pair and they WORK! There is nothing else that changed in my horses routine other than the addition of the bands so it absolutely has to be down to the use of them.

Anyone wants to ask me anything about my experience of the bands then please feel free to comment/message. I do find it slightly unfair if anyone chooses to criticise them unless they have actually tried them on themselves or their horses.
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Hi nonono, thank you for taking the time to share that. I remember meeting you at Hickstead as i remember your mum being so impressed and dragging you to us the next day. Delighted to hear the bands have helped you, Trevor Breen who won The Derby and then the Hickstead 6-7 yr Championship uses the band (as does his wife, his horses, and the old lodge who own some of his horses). Its lovely to hear so many lovely reports so thanks again.

Keep in touch and please do say hi on Facebook :-)
 
Blackopal said:
Saw my chiropractor yesterday as I do every 2 months. I have only worn my band since i saw him last so. Incidentally he could tell the difference in the alignment of my pelvis to what it normally is after 2 months, despite me having had a REALLY stressful period which normally makes me worse than normal.

His words to me were ' as a scientist I am interested in the science of it, as a practitioner I say that if it works for you then keep wearing it' .

And my farrier has confirmed that our mares splint is indeed getting smaller, she has worn hers as long as I have used mine so 2 months........

I also use Bioflow boots which were MUCH more expensive to buy ........
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That assumes that a chiropractor is a scientist.. But as a doctor I would say to a patient if eating a cube of yellow jelly a day works for your symptoms keep doing it. It does no harm so why not?? Doesn't mean I don't think it's placebo effect. Placebo (and norcebo for that matter ) are not to be sniffed at they can have strong effects in their own right... Sometimes placebo really IS the best medicine... It annoys be that it is seen as unethical to prescribe them in this country ...
 
no, but assuming a chiropractor can't also be a scientist is a little narrow minded IMO.

And quite honestly, I don't understand all the hate for this product. Lots of people use Bioflow boots and rugs, Equlibrium products and other makes........
 
Blackopal, you don't know that it's the band that is reducing the size of the splint. My gelding had a splint that reabsorbed over the summer. Now I did start putting his fly mask on daily at the beginning of the summer, so you could (wrongly) conclude that the fly mask caused the splint to go. :p

What you need is a large group of horses (100's) with splints and they are randomly assigned to two groups. One group wears placebo bands and the other group wears E-S bands. It's vital that it is not revealed which horses have the real thing until the end of the study. X-rays before and after would also be good.
 
Blackopal said:
no, but assuming a chiropractor can't also be a scientist is a little narrow minded IMO.
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The trouble with having an open mind is that anyone can walk right in and set up shop. I prefer to have a few hurdles on the way in, and a moat. Keeps the riff raff out :)
 
Question for the scientists. :)

Lets stick to my magic fly mask. ;) If I put my gelding's fly mask on my mare who is getting a little stiff these days and I noticed that she looked less stiff while wearing it, what's going on?

It can't be the placebo effect working on her (even if I tell her that the fly mask will make her feel better, she sadly won't understand me), so is it coincidence, or my faulty observation IE I believe that the fly mask will ease her stiffness, so it appears to me that it does?
 
Faracat said:
It can't be the placebo effect working on her (even if I tell her that the fly mask will make her feel better, she sadly won't understand me), so is it coincidence, or my faulty observation IE I believe that the fly mask will ease her stiffness, so it appears to me that it does?
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It might be that you perceive a difference which isn't empirically there (this is why trials should be double blind, otherwise medical staff report changes that aren't really there!), or it might be that your mare was slightly stiffer (been hooning in the field a bit at harvest time, exciting tractors maybe) and you put the fly mask on. Harvest ends, no tractors, mare is stiff so she takes it easier. Mare's condition improves - coinkydink. It may also reflect that the mare has had a couple of bad days - long standing conditions do fluctuate a little sometimes. It is statistically likely that, unless her condition has actually worsened, the following day (after you put the magic mask on because she looked so sore the previous day) she will feel better because that's what fluctuation is all about...
 
blitznbobs said:
That assumes that a chiropractor is a scientist.. But as a doctor I would say to a patient if eating a cube of yellow jelly a day works for your symptoms keep doing it. It does no harm so why not?? Doesn't mean I don't think it's placebo effect. Placebo (and norcebo for that matter ) are not to be sniffed at they can have strong effects in their own right... Sometimes placebo really IS the best medicine... It annoys be that it is seen as unethical to prescribe them in this country ...
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We have all learned that it annoys you and it annoys me that I am unable to drop the analysis on your lap that would satisfy you. (and i mean that with sincerity)

The ethics behind placebo is very true, and each to their own i suppose - Before you feel I disagree, i do in fact recognise the importance of placebo when it comes to satisfying some people and now we have got to where we are placebo (blind) trials are being carried out humans and horses, independently. I think the issues lies in the fact that an element of deception is thrown into the mix.

When we first ran trials we were looking to establish a basis of what to run clinical trials on. The bands help with so many things; not all of which can be tested under clinical conditions.

The two universities/colleges we are working with to get the EQU bands done needed to establish exactly what to run trials on; the bands have shown results from inflammation reduction, to hoof recovery and even grass sickness. After reviewing the field results over the past few months they settled on 'stifle osteochondrosis' as one study, and horses not on NSAID medication with 'colic' as another. It is apparently easier for them to assess these parameters in horses with acute medical conditions (e.g. colic) because these parameters change much more rapidly in these horses. For instance, they will be measuring the calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, chloride as well as oncotic pressure (as a surrogate marker of colloid balance) and expect to see more dramatic changes in horses with colic. The human bands are far more complicated to run in a clinical/placebo environment, but it is expected that the studies will focus on wound and broken bone recovery as this has shown to be of significant interest.

It is a debated subject.
 
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