Equine Crisis UK

[cobgoblin]

I'm not expecting anything, and I think we're more on the same page here than it may appear. Please don't make it personal; I'm not using the word 'you'; I'm just putting forward some ideas and thoughts. There is some excellent work going on to bring about long-term improvements, but no-one can dispute that it's a slow process, and all I am saying is that theoretically if a more immediate solution were to be found it would indeed take some pretty draconian measures and some high costs, and yes, a completely different organisation from Defra, which is useless, but it would be possible I think. Horses extinct, no certainly not, a lot fewer yes definitely.

I'll bow out of the discussion now, because I seem to have upset you personally Cobgoblin. It was not intentional at all. The discussion was interesting.

I am not in the slightest bit upset. I used 'you' because you are the one putting forward these suggestions which I feel would be disastrous and unnecessary for both owners and horses. I find the thought that a horse could be taken from a perfectly good owner in the same manner as an inanimate car and destroyed on some technicality of licensing quite awful...
Most responsible owners have third party insurance and have their vets visit at least once a year for vaccinations already. Adding on an unnecessary examination yearly
....which vets will charge for especially if they have to sign something...and charging for licensing ( which would have to be quite high to fund this whole new setup, no getting away with £30 or so to fund this) will be enough to push a lot of good owners out. And what will they do with their horses after the bottom has dropped out of the market due to over regulation?
There are already laws in place to deal with most situations. Fortunately at the moment these leave good horse owners in peace to enjoy their their animals and for their horses to enjoy life....long may it last.

 

[JDee]

When we leave the EU, do you think that farmers will be allowed to use blood and bonemeal products? This would at least give these poor unwanted scrub horses a value.

I'm not totally sure what you mean by Blood and Bone meal products but if you're referring to their use in fertilisers they are still legal
https://www.harrodhorticultural.com/organic-fish-blood-and-bone-fertiliser-pid8414.html
You have to remember that leaving the EU won't change a lot of the rules the UK has because the UK voted for and lobbied for many of them
The rules on medications allowed in horses slaughtered for the food chain only brings them into line with other livestock - the use of bute is banned in all livestock bred for human consumption not just horses, the biggest difference between horses and other livestock is that they haven't has any residue tests done on them - for medications or for pesticides that are used on crops grown for feeding animals
If horses are to be sold for the food table then they ideally should be bred and kept for that purpose like cattle and sheep rather than some members of the horse owning public seeing it as profitable end for a horse that's no longer useful for riding

 

[LinzyD]

Cobgoblin, it sounds a bit 'I'm alright, Jack.' And most of us are. But I'm strongly in favour of collective responsibility for the welfare crisis. It's not enough to say that I'm a good owner and my responsibility ends there. Yes, it may seem that good owners would be paying for bad via any scheme of licencing to generate resources for welfare improvements, and all that, but I prefer to see it as good owners paying for the good of all horses, and of course increased costs could not be imposed overnight or that would worsen things. I'm not saying I have all the answers, just some examples of how resources could be raised, how drastic measures might be the response to a drastic situation that at the moment we are all colluding in by allowing it to go on. We owe our entire lifestyle, our freedoms, the whole structure of the country in which we live to horses as a species, not just to the millions that died in wars, but to the millions that built our country before mechanisation, and yet what I'm hearing is that people don't want to pay for welfare improvements for that species as a whole, because they are themselves good owners, look after their own horses properly and owe other horses nothing. That's why we are where we are.

GG you are right. It's too depressing!

 

[LinzyD]

The main reason farm animals are cheaper to dispose of is because they have a national fallen stock scheme that gives transparent pricing within each area so in effect all the collectors are competing for the business. Ie all their prices are published and you can use whatever collector you like but of course many will go to the cheapest. We have been advocating bringing horses into the scheme however there is a lot of resistance due to horses not being classified as farm animals .

Thanks for that. How interesting. I think a lot of progress could be made in a number of ways by classing horses as farm animals, but again that inevitably means more control...

 

[cobgoblin]

Cobgoblin, it sounds a bit 'I'm alright, Jack.' And most of us are. But I'm strongly in favour of collective responsibility for the welfare crisis. It's not enough to say that I'm a good owner and my responsibility ends there. Yes, it may seem that good owners would be paying for bad via any scheme of licencing to generate resources for welfare improvements, and all that, but I prefer to see it as good owners paying for the good of all horses, and of course increased costs could not be imposed overnight or that would worsen things. I'm not saying I have all the answers, just some examples of how resources could be raised, how drastic measures might be the response to a drastic situation that at the moment we are all colluding in by allowing it to go on. We owe our entire lifestyle, our freedoms, the whole structure of the country in which we live to horses as a species, not just to the millions that died in wars, but to the millions that built our country before mechanisation, and yet what I'm hearing is that people don't want to pay for welfare improvements for that species as a whole, because they are themselves good owners, look after their own horses properly and owe other horses nothing. That's why we are where we are.

GG you are right. It's too depressing!

What you are hearing is that people don't want to be legislated into paying for welfare and in particular that they don't want that legislation tied into their own horses.
There are many problems in the world and any number of charities that would love to be able to force legalised donations...but I think if all parents were told that they legally had to donate a proportion of their salary to say Save The Children....there would be uproar....but this is essentially what you are suggesting.
I think most horse owners donate towards horse welfare in some way already...be that in cash, time, supporting events and in many other ways. Horse owners are a finite resource...there is a world of difference between giving voluntarily and being forced.

 

[Leo Walker]

Why in other EU countries does chipping cost £10 and in the UK between £50 t0 £70 and it is because only vets can do it in the the Uk in other EU countries any approved person can do it.

My vets do a chip, passport and visit on a zone day, for £50. They do the passport online for you so it works out a bit cheaper and thats in with the £50 cost. I dont think thats an excessive amount of money, although I do think the current passport system is a joke! Mine came with no passport and I made a fuss and ended up with a fake on. No one was interested. I did get him chipped and the form filled out 2 yrs ago, but only sent it off 10 days ago. Its just arrived. They were happy to post it to a different address to the one on the form, and I've just looked today and hes down as piebald, hes bay and white so skewbald!

 

[s4sugar]

Bring back NED and enforce passport rules.
Make third party insurance compulsory for all horse owners and licence livery yards with more than four equines.
No huge expenses for owners but up the standards.
Making castration VAT free would help too.

 

[sywell]

My vets do a chip, passport and visit on a zone day, for £50. They do the passport online for you so it works out a bit cheaper and thats in with the £50 cost. I dont think thats an excessive amount of money, although I do think the current passport system is a joke! Mine came with no passport and I made a fuss and ended up with a fake on. No one was interested. I did get him chipped and the form filled out 2 yrs ago, but only sent it off 10 days ago. Its just arrived. They were happy to post it to a different address to the one on the form, and I've just looked today and hes down as piebald, hes bay and white so skewbald!

The passport is an ID only passport and they do get commission. One of the principles of passports is that you have he right to choose who issues the passport and if as you say the passport is inaccurate it either your vet or the PIO you should use the UELN and complain to DEFRA Horse Passport team

 

[LinzyD]

What you are hearing is that people don't want to be legislated into paying for welfare and in particular that they don't want that legislation tied into their own horses.
There are many problems in the world and any number of charities that would love to be able to force legalised donations...but I think if all parents were told that they legally had to donate a proportion of their salary to say Save The Children....there would be uproar....but this is essentially what you are suggesting.
I think most horse owners donate towards horse welfare in some way already...be that in cash, time, supporting events and in many other ways. Horse owners are a finite resource...there is a world of difference between giving voluntarily and being forced.

We already do have a system in place whereby we all contribute in a structured, obligatory way towards child welfare at home and abroad, and it's absolutely right that we do. Via taxation we pay millions of pounds in international aid, and in to provision of education, housing, healthcare and child protection services at home. We don't rely exclusively on voluntary charity donations to provide these things. Both have a place. What I am saying is that in my mind horses - horses on whose backs the entire civilisation of the modern world has been built - deserve the same sort of approach, a dual approach that does not replace the work of the charities, but that provides for better welfare via a central governmental authority and complete overhaul of the current framework properly funded through some sort of public source and applied in a uniform way across the whole country, and supplemented by the fragmented efforts of the charities, which with the best will in the world are always patchy. At the moment we are relying entirely on charity, and we shouldn't have to, and some of those 'charities' are themselves the cause of suffering. Horses deserve better than that. Just as a for instance, a hundred pounds a year represents just under 30 pence per day: are you really saying that if it were possible to resolve a lot of the current issues by funding free castrations, education programmes, free disposal options, you wouldn't be prepared to put 30 pence a day in to a collective fund to do that, no matter what it's called taxation/licence/etc? And isn't it reasonable to expect any and every breeder to put a higher fee in to that fund to help ensure a good life and good end for the animal they are bringing in to the world? It is not enough that we all donate to charity; it's obvious out there that it is simply not enough.

 

[LinzyD]

It's exactly this sort of attitude, the attitude of 'I cough up for charity, I do my bit, I look after my own horses properly, I can't do any more,' that is at the root of the problem. There are 3.5 million riders officially recognised in the UK, and probably far more unoffically. If 3.5 million people really, really wanted to do something they could make it happen. It's a complex problem and very easy to think that it's just too hard to resolve and this won't work and that won't work for all sorts of reasons, but I am a great believer in the concept of where there is a will there is a way. The bottom line is that so long as our own are ok we just don't care enough about horses as a whole. Even when I did my last round of political lobbying at the time when the legislation on fly-grazing that had been implemented in Wales was put forward in the HoC, I was amazed and dismayed at the number of my horsey friends who couldn't be bothered to copy and send the letter I provided to their own MPs. And when Hope for Horses attended Equifest to collect signatures for their petition on better enforcement of current legislation they collected only a hundred or so over a week from the literally thousands of people there, and to do that they stuck a ten pound note to the floor to get people to stop! I'm ashamed to be a human being sometimes.

 

[LinzyD]

5.5 million people went to the races last year. Stick a tenner per person welfare levy on every ticket and you've got £50 Million to put in to programmes to deal with ex and rejected racers via rehab, re-use and disposal. Add on to that a hefty welfare tax for all the big corporate sponsors of race meetings and you've got another 50 million, and so on. Sure everyone would moan, but all those hen parties, all those enthusiasts, all those people who think nothing of spending a couple of hundred pounds per outing on betting and drinking, they'd soon get used to it. All it takes Cobgoblin is imagination and WILL, and it's the latter that is so lacking.

 

[PorkChop]

The equine welfare crisis isn't new. We all understand the mechanics of it, but not so many people are able to recognise their own role in how it is able to carry on so badly.

Sorry to ask a question from page 1 I've just started reading this thread

Can I ask what your average horse owner's role is in this?

As in, how can I, who owns three horses, two homebred, influence anything to do with the equine crisis.

 

[_GG_]

Sorry to ask a question from page 1 I've just started reading this thread

Can I ask what your average horse owner's role is in this?

As in, how can I, who owns three horses, two homebred, influence anything to do with the equine crisis.

Because we allow it to happen. It's an individual thing of course so there will be plenty of people who are not part of the problem, but most people are. It's as simple as giving money to charities that aren't responsible with it. Telling people what a great job they've done with the "rescue" pony they bought for a tenner at Beeston etc. Truth is, we know what happens but by and large, wash our hands of it and because of that, those actually doing it can carry on.

It's sad, really very sad, but sometimes not doing anything at more powerful than one could imagine.

 

[PorkChop]

The main reason farm animals are cheaper to dispose of is because they have a national fallen stock scheme that gives transparent pricing within each area so in effect all the collectors are competing for the business. Ie all their prices are published and you can use whatever collector you like but of course many will go to the cheapest. We have been advocating bringing horses into the scheme however there is a lot of resistance due to horses not being classified as farm animals .

Because we don't have any hunts up here really, this is not an option for horse disposal.

There is, however, a great fallen stock scheme, incredibly reasonable and efficient.

However, it seems the vast majority of people use the Vet for this service up here - which I think is madness.

 

[PorkChop]

Because we allow it to happen. It's an individual thing of course so there will be plenty of people who are not part of the problem, but most people are. It's as simple as giving money to charities that aren't responsible with it. Telling people what a great job they've done with the "rescue" pony they bought for a tenner at Beeston etc. Truth is, we know what happens but by and large, wash our hands of it and because of that, those actually doing it can carry on.

It's sad, really very sad, but sometimes not doing anything at more powerful than one could imagine.

Ah, ok, I understand

As someone who does none of those things, how on earth can I do something that will count?

 

[Goldenstar]

It's exactly this sort of attitude, the attitude of 'I cough up for charity, I do my bit, I look after my own horses properly, I can't do any more,' that is at the root of the problem. There are 3.5 million riders officially recognised in the UK, and probably far more unoffically. If 3.5 million people really, really wanted to do something they could make it happen. It's a complex problem and very easy to think that it's just too hard to resolve and this won't work and that won't work for all sorts of reasons, but I am a great believer in the concept of where there is a will there is a way. The bottom line is that so long as our own are ok we just don't care enough about horses as a whole. Even when I did my last round of political lobbying at the time when the legislation on fly-grazing that had been implemented in Wales was put forward in the HoC, I was amazed and dismayed at the number of my horsey friends who couldn't be bothered to copy and send the letter I provided to their own MPs. And when Hope for Horses attended Equifest to collect signatures for their petition on better enforcement of current legislation they collected only a hundred or so over a week from the literally thousands of people there, and to do that they stuck a ten pound note to the floor to get people to stop! I'm ashamed to be a human being sometimes.

With an attitude like that you won't get many people talked round to your way of thinking .
I have been round the welfare block I did more than a decade at the sharp end standing in darkness trying to help some poor little scrap that had never had a moments care while I knew my own horses were standing in the dark and cold at home wondering why I had not arrived to bring them in .
In the end I could do it no more no matter how much time you spent there was an unending tide of horses in totally unsuitable situations .
I do take your point about racing however I think a small levy on prize money would be a better way forward .
You won't agree with this but licensing won't work it won't be enforced and will punish the good like all these types of measures do .
The new abandonment laws are going to help however it may become an easy way of forcing some poor landowner to pay to put your horse to sleep .
The people causing the the bulk of the issues of mass overbreeding of poor quality stock just don't care they operate in the most part outside of the world most of us live in .
LIcensing of livery yards is a very thorny one it's was being discussed when I was invovled in welfare even then you could see that any meaningful rules were just going to cause a mass reduction in the number of livery places available with all the huge problems that would follow this .
And who would spend this tax you think is the way forward taken from me for the right to care for my horses troubling no one The council? The RSPCA ? A whole new and expensive government department attached to DEFRA.
Using my money to meddle in my buisiness because were ever it started it would end in sort of nonsense government gets up to when they start to micromanage others lives .

 

[milliepops]

With an attitude like that you won't get many people talked round to your way of thinking .
I have been round the welfare block I did more than a decade at the sharp end standing in darkness trying to help some poor little scrap that had never had a moments care while I knew my own horses were standing in the dark and cold at home wondering why I had not arrived to bring them in .
In the end I could do it no more no matter how much time you spent there was an unending tide of horses in totally unsuitable situations .
I do take your point about racing however I think a small levy on prize money would be a better way forward .
You won't agree with this but licensing won't work it won't be enforced and will punish the good like all these types of measures do .
The new abandonment laws are going to help however it may become an easy way of forcing some poor landowner to pay to put your horse to sleep .
The people causing the the bulk of the issues of mass overbreeding of poor quality stock just don't care they operate in the most part outside of the world most of us live in .
LIcensing of livery yards is a very thorny one it's was being discussed when I was invovled in welfare even then you could see that any meaningful rules were just going to cause a mass reduction in the number of livery places available with all the huge problems that would follow this .
And who would spend this tax you think is the way forward taken from me for the right to care for my horses troubling no one The council? The RSPCA ? A whole new and expensive government department attached to DEFRA.
Using my money to meddle in my buisiness because were ever it started it would end in sort of nonsense government gets up to when they start to micromanage others lives .

Have to agree with this, sadly
Have personal experience working for a welfare charity and I am a long term keeper of a charity owned horse.
I can't quite imagine how any 'horse tax' could be spent effectively, lord knows no other government department can spent its budget without coming under enormous criticism around waste and bureaucracy.

I also don't feel a debt of gratitude towards all horses... I don't feel like the black & white cobs being churned out now are owed anything because their ancestors carried soldiers around in war or enabled civilisation etc. That doesn't pull on my heartstrings... I do have concern for animals suffering, in general - the same is true of abandoned and neglected dogs etc. But, to an extent... my horses ARE alright, and I for one would not support tying responsible owners up in knots to prop up the bin end of the market because even with the best of intentions, education isn't going to magically fix it. As mentioned already on this thread, many 'irresponsible' breeders or keepers know exactly what they are doing, and it's the suckers that pay to 'rescue' their animals that need educating

 

[cobgoblin]

We already do have a system in place whereby we all contribute in a structured, obligatory way towards child welfare at home and abroad, and it's absolutely right that we do. Via taxation we pay millions of pounds in international aid, and in to provision of education, housing, healthcare and child protection services at home. We don't rely exclusively on voluntary charity donations to provide these things. Both have a place. What I am saying is that in my mind horses - horses on whose backs the entire civilisation of the modern world has been built - deserve the same sort of approach, a dual approach that does not replace the work of the charities, but that provides for better welfare via a central governmental authority and complete overhaul of the current framework properly funded through some sort of public source and applied in a uniform way across the whole country, and supplemented by the fragmented efforts of the charities, which with the best will in the world are always patchy. At the moment we are relying entirely on charity, and we shouldn't have to, and some of those 'charities' are themselves the cause of suffering. Horses deserve better than that. Just as a for instance, a hundred pounds a year represents just under 3 pence per day: are you really saying that if it were possible to resolve a lot of the current issues by funding free castrations, education programmes, free disposal options, you wouldn't be prepared to put 3 pence a day in to a collective fund to do that, no matter what it's called taxation/licence/etc? And isn't it reasonable to expect any and every breeder to put a higher fee in to that fund to help ensure a good life and good end for the animal they are bringing in to the world? It is not enough that we all donate to charity; it's obvious out there that it is simply not enough.

Firstly there is absolutely no way that you could fund a government department on 3p a day from law abiding horse owners. Any department requires offices , staff, supplies, pensions, accountants, lawyers..any number of field officers and vehicles.....all paid for out of 3p a day? I don't think so. Nothing is truly ring fenced in government...all promises are eventually broken and any revenue ( because this would be a tax) disappears into government coffers with no guarantee that it is spent in the intended area.
Most law abiding owners are already burdened with high costs with increasing pressure on land and livery prices....this is about to become much worse...take a look at the thread on business rates in the equestrian news section. This does not apply to those that fly graze ...there are already laws in place to deal with this. Legally increasing costs for keeping a horse will lead to another horse crisis....we have just been through a very long recession, wages are not really increasing...I would suggest that you scour the forums to appreciate just how much the average horse owner sacrifices in order to keep their animals. You may be ok, I may be ok...but a lot of others wouldn't. They would be financially punished for doing the right thing.
Then there's this problem of the licenses...not only would everyone have the feeling that the government was looking over their shoulder all the time but one slip and their horses would be taken away and destroyed....just takes one idiot jobsworth. So of course you would have to have an appeal process with all the costs of court time and probably a large number of lawyers.

The unintended consequences would be myriad....not only would this proposal cause the problems that it is supposed to be preventing ( always a bad idea) but it would result in untold misery, job losses, a huge reduction in the equestrian industry....and then there are the other animals. What about dogs, cats, rabbits, Guinea pigs.....should these also have a separate department and be licensed to pay for their welfare, after all the precedent would have been set.
3p a day would go absolutely nowhere £1 a day would go nowhere, quite possibly £5 a day would go nowhere because so much money would be eaten up in administrative costs....and here we are in the realms of nearly £2000 a year per horse - I can just imagine owners of multiple horses being thrilled with that. Plus the ever decreasing number of horse owners would mean that the burden would fall on fewer and fewer, so the cost of licenses would have to increase year on year. By this time countless horses that were loved and well looked after would have been destroyed.
Then there is the initial setting up of the department, before any revenues have been collected...or is the ordinary tax payer expected to cough up for that?

We do pay via our taxes into many forms of aid and welfare...we also have absolutely no control where that money goes. At least donations to horse welfare groups and charities go directly to source. Yes, they will have administrative costs but I'm willing to bet the percentage is well below that of a government department....plus they don't try to victimise ordinary horse owners going about their business.

 

[rascal]

Because we allow it to happen. It's an individual thing of course so there will be plenty of people who are not part of the problem, but most people are. It's as simple as giving money to charities that aren't responsible with it. Telling people what a great job they've done with the "rescue" pony they bought for a tenner at Beeston etc. Truth is, we know what happens but by and large, wash our hands of it and because of that, those actually doing it can carry on.

It's sad, really very sad, but sometimes not doing anything at more powerful than one could imagine.

Agree with this.
Responsible charities DO NOT buy horses or any other animals from sales, its just the dodgy ones.

The TB industry also has a lot to answer for., Novice owners go to the sales and buy a cheap horse, that they can not cope with. They are turfed out, often with no rug or shelter, inadequate care, and expected to survive. Maybe these horses should be pts when their racing career is over, instead of being dumped in a sale for anyone to buy.

 

[honetpot]

Ah, ok, I understand

As someone who does none of those things, how on earth can I do something that will count?

This man is trying do something, when he goes to shows apparently a lot of horse people are not interested.

https://www.facebook.com/hopeforhorsesuk/?fref=ts https://hopeforhorses.co.uk/

 

[Kaylum]

It's exactly this sort of attitude, the attitude of 'I cough up for charity, I do my bit, I look after my own horses properly, I can't do any more,' that is at the root of the problem. There are 3.5 million riders officially recognised in the UK, and probably far more unoffically. If 3.5 million people really, really wanted to do something they could make it happen. It's a complex problem and very easy to think that it's just too hard to resolve and this won't work and that won't work for all sorts of reasons, but I am a great believer in the concept of where there is a will there is a way. The bottom line is that so long as our own are ok we just don't care enough about horses as a whole. Even when I did my last round of political lobbying at the time when the legislation on fly-grazing that had been implemented in Wales was put forward in the HoC, I was amazed and dismayed at the number of my horsey friends who couldn't be bothered to copy and send the letter I provided to their own MPs. And when Hope for Horses attended Equifest to collect signatures for their petition on better enforcement of current legislation they collected only a hundred or so over a week from the literally thousands of people there, and to do that they stuck a ten pound note to the floor to get people to stop! I'm ashamed to be a human being sometimes.

Any Charity/Welfare organisation has to build a relationship up with people. Collecting signatures is ok but getting the word out and letting people understand what your doing even talking to people is hard unless you have a relationship with them. I am currently volunteering for a charity with their media and these last 9 months has gone crazy. Showcasing what they are doing giving updates making people aware not asking for money all the time but showing what can be achieved and making relationships with people who aren't even horsey or in this country. It is about education but it is doing it in the right way. It wont solve the Crisis but knowing that if they have a question about an animal that might need care they can ask us to help point them in the right direction.

 

[honetpot]

I agree on some of your points but many of the smaller charities/action groups who have started up because they have been frustrated by larger charities apparent inaction have not the resources.
They be a nucleus of about 20 people who are doing this with their own funds and around jobs. A lot have little experience of the power of social media and advertising, when you try and explain to them what it can do they can not really understand, the fact they have a decent website is a miracle.
I offered to sponsor and set up stand at a national show, just getting the material together was impossible never mind the people giving up their holiday to man it. They need support but do not know how to access it.
Hate to whinge about the RSPCA, but they appear to have had the governments ear for many years and sit on many committees but they have made no noticeable difference to the welfare of these animals either through education on the ground or lobbying in government. I think I am more depressed about that.

 

[Kaylum]

I agree on some of your points but many of the smaller charities/action groups who have started up because they have been frustrated by larger charities apparent inaction have not the resources.
They be a nucleus of about 20 people who are doing this with their own funds and around jobs. A lot have little experience of the power of social media and advertising, when you try and explain to them what it can do they can not really understand, the fact they have a decent website is a miracle.
I offered to sponsor and set up stand at a national show, just getting the material together was impossible never mind the people giving up their holiday to man it. They need support but do not know how to access it.
Hate to whinge about the RSPCA, but they appear to have had the governments ear for many years and sit on many committees but they have made no noticeable difference to the welfare of these animals either through education on the ground or lobbying in government. I think I am more depressed about that.

I agree with they don't understand how to use social media the one I volunteer with is very small that is how people can help these smaller charities understand what they do many don't just rescue they visit care homes, schools, groups with their ponies, give work experience opportunities to school children the list goes on. You have to dig deep sometimes to know the extra work they do when to be honest they should be showcasing it. They are a really community asset. They don't understand the power of positive marketing.

 

[windand rain]

There will always be cruelty as long as humans inhabit the world the existing laws need to be enforced and horses need to be a lot more expensiveso I am sorry I think every foal born should be a wanted, valued, animal. If the scrub stallions had to be graded and any offspring had to be properly passported and microchipped before weaning. Any horse or pony found not to be to be seized and then either graded for quality or destroyed if substandard. A hefty fine would cover the grading and chipping. The biggest issue is no one enforces the law no one finds the money because it is low priority. If the conformation of youngsters could be improved by improving the quality of the parents then it would eventually eliminate the scrub animals. All would have a proper value and any that didnt would be destroyed. Another problem is the closure of local easily accessed abbatoirs if push came to shove anyone should be able to drive a few miles to have their horse slaughtered for a smal fee, they would know it had been done and although it wouldnt be fluffy it would be a solution

 

[cobgoblin]

A few statistics for everyone, unfortunately the most recent I can find is 2015.

http://www.beta-uk.org/pages/industry-information/market-information.php

Only 446,000 horse owning households.

 

[tristar]

faffing about at the bottom is a drop in the ocean whatever efforts rescues and charities make, their work is wonderful but will never get to the heart of the problem.

the only solution will have to come from the er` top` until governments legislate to protect the welfare of animals and take responsibility to implement their own laws nothing will change on a level that will make a significant difference

 

[honetpot]

On a different not I have seen at least 3 older horses for sale on FB as companions today.
I want to shout' have it shot!!!!', as they paint a picture of this lovely animal they want to off load for winter, its 'good to handle', but if they do not want it why should anyone else?

 

[paddi22]

i hate seeing the older horses getting passed on to companion homes, there was one near us that had a 9 yr old tb with medical issues that had to be stabled in bad weather, but she still wanted a 'five star home, home will be checked'. i know she had the best of intentions but at some point regardless of how well you check a home, once its gone from you then you lose control and god knows where an animal can end up.

 

[Kaylum]

i hate seeing the older horses getting passed on to companion homes, there was one near us that had a 9 yr old tb with medical issues that had to be stabled in bad weather, but she still wanted a 'five star home, home will be checked'. i know she had the best of intentions but at some point regardless of how well you check a home, once its gone from you then you lose control and god knows where an animal can end up.

People try and do the best for their horses sadly they often end up doped up and sold on.

 

[cobgoblin]

It's exactly this sort of attitude, the attitude of 'I cough up for charity, I do my bit, I look after my own horses properly, I can't do any more,' that is at the root of the problem. There are 3.5 million riders officially recognised in the UK, and probably far more unoffically. If 3.5 million people really, really wanted to do something they could make it happen. It's a complex problem and very easy to think that it's just too hard to resolve and this won't work and that won't work for all sorts of reasons, but I am a great believer in the concept of where there is a will there is a way. The bottom line is that so long as our own are ok we just don't care enough about horses as a whole. Even when I did my last round of political lobbying at the time when the legislation on fly-grazing that had been implemented in Wales was put forward in the HoC, I was amazed and dismayed at the number of my horsey friends who couldn't be bothered to copy and send the letter I provided to their own MPs. And when Hope for Horses attended Equifest to collect signatures for their petition on better enforcement of current legislation they collected only a hundred or so over a week from the literally thousands of people there, and to do that they stuck a ten pound note to the floor to get people to stop! I'm ashamed to be a human being sometimes.

Perhaps some people cannot do more ( see my previous posts). You are naming responsible owners as the root of the welfare funding problem....which is hardly fair.

There are not 3.5m riders in the country, that figure is from 2011. The figure fell to 2.7m in 2015 and of those, only 1.3m are regular riders having fallen from 1.6m. I would suspect these figures have now further declined.

I don't see any evidence that the majority of the horse community does not care about horses in general...in fact, I would say it is one of the most likely rally round and offer help in an emergency.

I don't think you are doing your cause much good.