Equine Manners

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Recently there have been many posts and questions revolving around problems with leading, stabling or turning out alone, thug youngsters, pair bonds etc.

I actively teach my horses, including the youngstock to accept being alone in a stable or paddock should the need arise for them to do so. For instance my 2 year old filly has been inside since Sunday evening through injury. She can see one horse in an adjoining paddock, but because she has been taught to cope with being alone occasionally she has settled immediately in a row of 5 boxes with no neighbours. I take the view that teaching them to be independent early in their lives will set them up for the future. I cannot be doing with screaming clingy horses. I also expect them to back off the door as I approach and to move over with a verbal command, to lead without pulling or hanging back and to turn in gateways without being asked or shoved and to stand quietly.

This to me, is the most basic of training, yet so many horses do not seem to have this basic grounding and present their owners with real problems. Have standards changed ? am I a rarity in my insistence of manners regardless of the age of the horse. I had two visiting horses in a while ago, both of whom flattened me in the doorway, normal behaviour their owners told me and explained how they had never seen horses step back as the door was opened.

Interested to hear your thoughts on equine manners.
 
I'm with you - I am horrified if Nugz plays up (like dragging his feet, or nodding his head to the haynet left out by the wash off or not standing for the hose) for someone that is looking after him and so will apologise and always get the 'oh he wasn't playing up, he's a complete lamb/darling/angel'.

Okay then :rolleyes3:

Although, the one habit I have left him to is his need to have the end of the leadrope to chew in the afternoons. I have no idea why he does it, he doesn't stress if he's not allowed, but will search for 2 seconds and then give up if getting nowhere.
 
I am big on manners and stabling I expected from weaning the horses I bred to understand coming into the stable was expected and nice .
One of the things I liked most about the young ID I have just bought is that he and in fact all the horses on the yard where well mannered and stepped back as you went in with them.
I hate bad to handle horses , good manners are like an insurance policy for horses ,an old dealer told me that once he meant that nice well mannered horses end up loved and easy to find good homes for.
I am older and I do find all the threads about doing groundwork with new horses perplexing ( unless of course you are talking about lunging and long riening ) why waste time fiddling around in the school to try to get your horse to 'respect 'you and accept you as a 'leader ' when you can do it in every day to day interaction with it.
New horse was a little unsettled this morning he's in isolation and could see the others but wanted to be near so he had a little barge , I did not go oh darling you're upset and you have not been here six months yet and you want to talk to your new brothers , I went don't you ever ever touch me like that again and you know what in seconds he was calm and focused on me and has behaved beauifully all day.
 
It does vary a bit, when I worked with horses full time, they all had to conform there was just no choice, or the work would never get done.
One of my charges came back from six months with his owners, who had a lot of experience, and Head Lad asked me what I thought, I said he's "spoiled" .
Well, he was still very well behaved by standards of today, and it took a few weeks to sort him out, but he was definitely quirky, no badness, just could not cope with being tied up for the farrier if facing the wall, would stand loose facing outwards, and once his new bed was put down he had to roll immediately, then would stand tied up.
With my my pet / hobby horses, I am more flexible, but I don't put up with any nonsense, it soon turns in to a dangerous situation. I know my last lad was very clumsy, and he did not realise "my space" was mine and at first he used to expect me to keep out of his way!!! ..... no....no....... its the other way around mate!
 
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AdorableAlice said:
Recently there have been many posts and questions revolving around problems with leading, stabling or turning out alone, thug youngsters, pair bonds etc.

I actively teach my horses, including the youngstock to accept being alone in a stable or paddock should the need arise for them to do so. For instance my 2 year old filly has been inside since Sunday evening through injury. She can see one horse in an adjoining paddock, but because she has been taught to cope with being alone occasionally she has settled immediately in a row of 5 boxes with no neighbours. I take the view that teaching them to be independent early in their lives will set them up for the future. I cannot be doing with screaming clingy horses. I also expect them to back off the door as I approach and to move over with a verbal command, to lead without pulling or hanging back and to turn in gateways without being asked or shoved and to stand quietly.

This to me, is the most basic of training, yet so many horses do not seem to have this basic grounding and present their owners with real problems. Have standards changed ? am I a rarity in my insistence of manners regardless of the age of the horse. I had two visiting horses in a while ago, both of whom flattened me in the doorway, normal behaviour their owners told me and explained how they had never seen horses step back as the door was opened.

Interested to hear your thoughts on equine manners.
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Totally agree. I have a yearling, for about 4 months now and she came out of the field unhandled. She's been great but I kind of know that it's because she was feeling her way. Her stable name is Lucy, but she's had a couple of 'Lucifer' moments! She is turned out by herself because my retired mare is not sociable but she has company, ie chickens and goats. Also she can see and scratch other ponies and cows! Her Lucifer moments I believe is her way of not wanting to do what I want her to do, fair enough why would she?! Unfortunately that will be her way in life along with many other horses. I don't believe that we 'ask' horses we 'tell' them but in varying degrees if that makes sense? When she was being a little devilish, I knew the reasons and took them into account, but she still had to do what I wanted - no violence involved. I do agree that there does seem to be so many handling problems lately.
 
You can tell a lot about a horses's manners simply by noting how it responds when you enter its stable. I'm with you, AA, in that they should step back and give you room to enter, it's pretty basic stuff, and if that isn't in place then its very likely that there will be other big gaps in the manners. None of my horses are permitted to step out of their stables once I've opened the door until I ask them, if they forget and start to come out, I promptly send them back again. It's very easy to get the message across and makes life easier all round.

I suspect that there has been a general decline in equine manners. I was brought up with 'old school' help and advice, whereas there are a lot of new people with horses who haven't had that advantage, and are muddling through with good intentions but poor skills.

As an aside, I brought up my two teenage lads the same way ie they were 'no means no' children, same principle really!
 
Funnily enough we were talking about this on the yard tonight, how some people literally let their horses walk all over them, showing your horse whose boss doesnt mean being cruel to them, it just means showing them respect, getting basic ground rules so they show you some respect, they are too big to pussyfoot around.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Recently there have been many posts and questions revolving around problems with leading, stabling or turning out alone, thug youngsters, pair bonds etc.

I actively teach my horses, including the youngstock to accept being alone in a stable or paddock should the need arise for them to do so. For instance my 2 year old filly has been inside since Sunday evening through injury. She can see one horse in an adjoining paddock, but because she has been taught to cope with being alone occasionally she has settled immediately in a row of 5 boxes with no neighbours. I take the view that teaching them to be independent early in their lives will set them up for the future. I cannot be doing with screaming clingy horses. I also expect them to back off the door as I approach and to move over with a verbal command, to lead without pulling or hanging back and to turn in gateways without being asked or shoved and to stand quietly.

This to me, is the most basic of training, yet so many horses do not seem to have this basic grounding and present their owners with real problems. Have standards changed ? am I a rarity in my insistence of manners regardless of the age of the horse. I had two visiting horses in a while ago, both of whom flattened me in the doorway, normal behaviour their owners told me and explained how they had never seen horses step back as the door was opened.

Interested to hear your thoughts on equine manners.
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Tricky. I do agree, but not everyone has their horse from a youngster, and teaching manners to an olde rhorse who is used to having their way is difficult.

My old horse, for example, I handled in a stallion chain. He was 99% perfect to handle, BECAUSE he knew I had the chain and would tell him when his behaviour was unacceptable. However, he was not a horse I could leave tied up - he would break off and run oak (with previous owners he had been left tied to the box and ended up loose on a XC course mid event once...). If you ended up in a tricky situation minus the chain, anyone but me would get towed at a flat gallop in whichever direction he wanted. He crushed my sister a few times, and yet my voice went low and he backed off immediately. Partly his temperament, and partly manners, but at 14 how was I going to change him? I had to manage him instead. (Incidentally he was a total schoolmaster and perfect gentleman to ride... but I NEVER got off him going past scary things... EVER.)

Current one is an exracer - perfect to clip/shoe/box and generally to lead unless very overexcited. But he doesn't tie up. Not his fault - he'll never really have had to before. But he is noisy, a fidget, will weave/strike the ground/crib when tied - but not when stabled.

Both would step back from the stable door, both would move over with a gesture rather than prodding (I teach them using voice and gesture. I've also taught them to turn in gateways with 'spin spin'.), and if either tried to barge they would be backing off two seconds later! However neither were/are very happy alone (both very clingy to me as well) and had their handling difficulties.

If I could teach them perfect manners, I would. I draw strict lines about what is unacceptable behaviour. However equally I don't think you can force a horse into 'good manners' if it hasn't been instilled from the start, so buying an older horse you can only change so much, and have to manage the rest.
 
It's not the standards which have changed...... It's the people working with horses!
Many people now buy a horse with no other family involvement within the sport, therefore they are not taught how to handle or teach a horse manners. There is very little old school horsemanship, in which horses were expect to behave, like a child! Horses are so open to nearly everyone that the horsey tradition and learning is not passed down any more!

You can basically compare child behaviour to horses nowadays! Look at how some children are brought up....then you can understand why some horses are so bad.

I worked on a yard once where the horses were part or full livery. Due to the fact the owner couldn't install any manners in the horse the grooms had to put up with bad, and in some cases, dangerous behaviour! Often the horses just needed a firm word and a slap to remind them..... However YO would often say that this was not allowed, reprimand staff for just trying to protect them selves and basically that we just had to put up with the behaviour!
 
Glad it's not me then.

I think there is a fine line between over handling youngstock and getting it just right. My two were abandoned in the fields from February (both 18 months) through no fault of their own. I was very worried all I had taught them would be forgotten and they would be vile by the time I could start on them again now. A highly experienced breeder on the forum told me not to worry and the youngsters would not forget anything. This advice has proven correct and made me realise that started right they will stay right until some one messes them up.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Recently there have been many posts and questions revolving around problems with leading, stabling or turning out alone, thug youngsters, pair bonds etc.

I actively teach my horses, including the youngstock to accept being alone in a stable or paddock should the need arise for them to do so. For instance my 2 year old filly has been inside since Sunday evening through injury. She can see one horse in an adjoining paddock, but because she has been taught to cope with being alone occasionally she has settled immediately in a row of 5 boxes with no neighbours. I take the view that teaching them to be independent early in their lives will set them up for the future. I cannot be doing with screaming clingy horses. I also expect them to back off the door as I approach and to move over with a verbal command, to lead without pulling or hanging back and to turn in gateways without being asked or shoved and to stand quietly.

This to me, is the most basic of training, yet so many horses do not seem to have this basic grounding and present their owners with real problems. Have standards changed ? am I a rarity in my insistence of manners regardless of the age of the horse. I had two visiting horses in a while ago, both of whom flattened me in the doorway, normal behaviour their owners told me and explained how they had never seen horses step back as the door was opened.

Interested to hear your thoughts on equine manners.
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We once bought the rudest yearling I have ever met! She would barge between you and any other horse and expected to be the centre of attention the whole time. It got to the stage that even the other horses disliked her! Eventually we brought her home (quaking in our boots a bit) and within a very short space of time she turned into the wonderful polite and charming girl she is today. We never hit or slapped her, or even shouted at her, but every time she was 'rude' she was put where she was supposed to be and ignored... I don't think her breeder had taught her anything at all.

Her only 'naughtiness' now is to untie herself with monotonous regularity, or untie her sister. They are in adjoining Lodden boxes and we tend to use the bars to tie up, so she wriggles the rope end and knot to her side and then undoes her. The odd part is that neither of them go anywhere afterwards, the challenge seems to end at undoing the knot!

Other than that we point and she goes back or sideways and a child would be safe leading her. She and her sister are probably the easiest horses I have ever handled and she is so so different from the fiery chestnut bundle of naughtiness we first brought home.
 
I do agree with you that unacceptable manners are just not acceptable. However I am really interested in how this actually achieved. My youngster is perfect with the blacksmith becaused he has had a few hard clouts. Is this acceptable?? He tries to strike out at me and again has been told 'no' and had a whip on his leg which must have hurt (is this acceptable?). He is left on his own when my other horses are being exercised and actually jumped over the stable door (there is a narrowing of his doorway now). He can't jump out but still cries for the others. I have lots of toys in the stable to keep him occupied. He leads to his paddock like an angel but does not like to be led on his own down the lane (when he was a foal I walked him all over the place but now he just is so bolshy. Why??) What are your methods for perfect manners?
 
Me too. I'm lucky that Pip is such a lamb (can wash/clip etc without tying him up, he puts his head into the bridle/headcollar, when I'm leading him if I stop walking he stops dead, if I start jogging he trots etc) but it means when I handle other horses I forget they can be bolshy! To be fair it's not a reflection on me, he's always been easy to handle.
 
Theo4 said:
I do agree with you that unacceptable manners are just not acceptable. However I am really interested in how this actually achieved. My youngster is perfect with the blacksmith becaused he has had a few hard clouts. Is this acceptable?? He tries to strike out at me and again has been told 'no' and had a whip on his leg which must have hurt (is this acceptable?). He is left on his own when my other horses are being exercised and actually jumped over the stable door (there is a narrowing of his doorway now). He can't jump out but still cries for the others. I have lots of toys in the stable to keep him occupied. He leads to his paddock like an angel but does not like to be led on his own down the lane (when he was a foal I walked him all over the place but now he just is so bolshy. Why??) What are your methods for perfect manners?
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I can only tell you what I do with Lucifer moments. The odd time she's wound up by the other ponies when I want to bring her in, she's happy to have me put her headcollar on but plants and then jumps up and down on the spot refusing to go forward. I basically turn her in a circle and walk her on. When I put her feed in the stable she always puts her ears back, I ignore it and then I leave her to eat in peace. I do allow her to investigate new things when leading, she's not a robot but I haven't got all day I move her quarters and we move on. My homebred youngsters were a lot easier (and she's not hard!), they learned from the stallion and were very amenable. Tbh, the only horse we had problems with - our lovely retired thoroughbred mare - just thrived on routine and initially she was very field aggressive.
 
Theo4 said:
I do agree with you that unacceptable manners are just not acceptable. However I am really interested in how this actually achieved. My youngster is perfect with the blacksmith becaused he has had a few hard clouts. Is this acceptable?? He tries to strike out at me and again has been told 'no' and had a whip on his leg which must have hurt (is this acceptable?). He is left on his own when my other horses are being exercised and actually jumped over the stable door (there is a narrowing of his doorway now). He can't jump out but still cries for the others. I have lots of toys in the stable to keep him occupied. He leads to his paddock like an angel but does not like to be led on his own down the lane (when he was a foal I walked him all over the place but now he just is so bolshy. Why??) What are your methods for perfect manners?
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Is he still a colt, if so cut him asap.

Sounds like he is at the 'Kevin' stage. If he is tricky to lead I would use either a rope halter or a dually. He will need to understand the pressure and release concept. Use a long line, wear a hat and gloves and do plenty of ground work with him, always insisting he stays out of your space. Step back is very useful, be fair and firm, you move him not the other way round. Always be consistent in how you ask him to do things, this can be time consuming and I always make sure I have time to finish something I have started. So if you are in a rush in the mornings don't start something new with him.

Your farrier has a right to work in safety. Our job is to ensure our horses will pick up their feet as requested and stand still. Sadly there will be times when a quick reprimand will be needed and if he is now mannerly for the farrier it obviously worked.

He will get over himself in the stables and a grid on the door is essential if he tries to jump. It is very tempting to go back to him if he kicks up a fuss, but that is actually rewarding him, so just walk away and let him learn.
 
Do people not understand that horses have to be taught to behave well? That's what seems to me to be the common theme in the "can't lead/won't stand to be mounted/barges" posts - people seem to think horses automatically know what to do?

Mine couldn't be better, but that's because I put hours into training him. I wanted a horse who would lead like a lamb, understand what space to maintain, easy to catch, know how to back up, move quarters, move shoulders, line up and stand to be mounted etc. So I taught every single one of those things until I knew the horse understood. I know I don't use the same approach as most people here, because I don't believe in teaching by correcting and reprimanding, I use plenty of rewards instead - but the end result is the same. The horse behaves politely and understands what's being asked of him. It is a safety issue - it is nothing to do with leadership or respect, but the result of teaching and reinforcing.

The people who have problems don't seem to understand that if a horse doesn't do what you want, you need to teach them - and when they do understand the horse needs to be taught, they've never been shown how to teach these things. I think that's what's missing - it's not that people have become lax about manners, it's that nobody has ever shown them how to train a horse how to behave.
 
I'm with you AA
But I disagree with the poster who said that you cannot change an ill-mannered older horse. We bought an aged Clydesdale mare for a beginner OH, she was fantastic on the roads and a super schoolmistress. She slammed him against the stable door frame every tea-time in her rush to get in. We knew why - there had been a complete lack of routine at her previous home with horses being fed randomly - but this behaviour was completely unnacceptable. So my 5'6", 9 stone sister led her Appaloosa mare to the stable yard, then swapped with this 6'4", built like a brick outhouse, ex-rugby player, the Clydesdale tried once to rush off with her but only the once. No violence was involved but a sharp word and a tug on the rope halter told the mare to behave herself.
The irony of this was that the Appaloosa mare, bought as an 8 yr old, had herself needed to be taught manners when we got her, she was one of the worst-mannered horses I had ever encountered, difficult to lead, bargy in the stable, struck when she felt like it and generally a pain in the neck. It took us about a year but she became a well-mannered pleasant horse who could be led past a grazing stallion or the hunt without incident.
A rope halter, consistency and rewards for doing the right thing got the message across in those cases and with every other horse we've had. I'm delighted to say that we have been complimented on our well-mannered horses.

ETA, I think a lot of the problem is the standard of instruction available these days. Sis and I did not come from a horsey family but had lessons at a good RS where we were taught to handle horses properly. The phrase in my sig was one that RI could be heard uttering frequently - and woe betide you if you did let him do 'that', whatever it was!
 
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Brightbay said:
Do people not understand that horses have to be taught to behave well? That's what seems to me to be the common theme in the "can't lead/won't stand to be mounted/barges" posts - people seem to think horses automatically know what to do?

Mine couldn't be better, but that's because I put hours into training him. I wanted a horse who would lead like a lamb, understand what space to maintain, easy to catch, know how to back up, move quarters, move shoulders, line up and stand to be mounted etc. So I taught every single one of those things until I knew the horse understood. I know I don't use the same approach as most people here, because I don't believe in teaching by correcting and reprimanding, I use plenty of rewards instead - but the end result is the same. The horse behaves politely and understands what's being asked of him. It is a safety issue - it is nothing to do with leadership or respect, but the result of teaching and reinforcing.

The people who have problems don't seem to understand that if a horse doesn't do what you want, you need to teach them - and when they do understand the horse needs to be taught, they've never been shown how to teach these things. I think that's what's missing - it's not that people have become lax about manners, it's that nobody has ever shown them how to train a horse how to behave.
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Agree totally - ours are very polite (although the youngster has his moments, but can be brought to heel with a stern voice) - people on the yard say "you are lucky, wish mine was like that" our reply is "luck has nothing to do with it". It is all to do with putting in the time and effort. Mind you we are both in our sixties, so it's possibly a generational thing!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I'm with you AA
But I disagree with the poster who said that you cannot change an ill-mannered older horse. We bought an aged Clydesdale mare for a beginner OH, she was fantastic on the roads and a super schoolmistress. She slammed him against the stable door frame every tea-time in her rush to get in. We knew why - there had been a complete lack of routine at her previous home with horses being fed randomly - but this behaviour was completely unnacceptable. So my 5'6", 9 stone sister led her Appaloosa mare to the stable yard, then swapped with this 6'4", built like a brick outhouse, ex-rugby player, the Clydesdale tried once to rush off with her but only the once. No violence was involved but a sharp word and a tug on the rope halter told the mare to behave herself.
The irony of this was that the Appaloosa mare, bought as an 8 yr old, had herself needed to be taught manners when we got her, she was one of the worst-mannered horses I had ever encountered, difficult to lead, bargy in the stable, struck when she felt like it and generally a pain in the neck. It took us about a year but she became a well-mannered pleasant horse who could be led past a grazing stallion or the hunt without incident.
A rope halter, consistency and rewards for doing the right thing got the message across in those cases and with every other horse we've had. I'm delighted to say that we have been complimented on our well-mannered horses.

ETA, I think a lot of the problem is the standard of instruction available these days. Sis and I did not come from a horsey family but had lessons at a good RS where we were taught to handle horses properly. The phrase in my sig was one that RI could be heard uttering frequently - and woe betide you if you did let him do 'that', whatever it was!
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I stand by that. Being bargy etc is easy enough to solve, and neither of mine were bargy with me for long - but with someone who they could get away with? That is more about temperament than training - if they are the type that will chance their arm with someone who won't stop them, then once they've learned that's very hard to undo. Equally a horse that runs through your hands, or weaves and cribs when tied, or calls for its friends when stabled alone - these things are very hard to undo once they've been done.
 
I can't stand ill-mannered horses. It's so easy to correct with a bit of consistency, there's really no excuse for it. An animal that weighs more than half a ton and has metal on its feet should not be allowed to think it can push its weight around!
 
I'm Pearlsasingers sister, we currently have two youngsters, a two year old cob and a three year old appaloosa. They also lead well, move away from the door and wait to be invited to come out after the door has been fully opened (we don't want them to have knocked hips!) The three year old has had a cut sole, which then abscessed. She needed vet treatment, twice, with IV sedation, which led to her not being over keen on picking her feet up. We have been picking her feet up just about everytime we have got near her since! She gets a treat when she does it, the task is repeated until she does it properly and she only gets the treat when she does it right. She is currently picking up her feet quite nicely again. Training horses is pretty much the same as training dogs and children IMO consistant, understandable messages, which are rewarded when the behaviour is what you want, punishment is rare, but swift and proportionate.
 
I think time has a lot to do with it .
Teaching manners takes time and it needs doing in the moment it needs doing to be really effective .
fatty had leading issues when he arrived he's a cooperative sort of person so had sort of learnt I go here I go there so you could lead him to the field but if tried to stop he would just go and you can't hold on to a determined ID .
So every morning going to the field was an exercise in start stop steps back lead to the house gate and back away from the field starting g and stopping if he did not behave it was into the stable ten minutes to reflect and the start again.
In fact it probally did not take long for him to get it but if you are doing your horse on DIY at 6.30 in the morning before rushing home to shower and go to work or your an yard worker on a big yard handling some else's bad mannered beast I understand why people don't take the time.
But it's such a false economy.
Good mannered horses are much quicker to work with.
 
Nessa4 said:
Agree totally - ours are very polite (although the youngster has his moments, but can be brought to heel with a stern voice) - people on the yard say "you are lucky, wish mine was like that" our reply is "luck has nothing to do with it". It is all to do with putting in the time and effort. Mind you we are both in our sixties, so it's possibly a generational thing!
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We are the same sort of age and I think you have a valid point. Some of the worst horses we have had at livery belonged to teenagers who thought they looked good leading a 'difficult' horse and would actively encourage this. Luckily YO kicked out the worst offender after my farrier was nearly killed when her loose horse ran into the barn at the very moment he was applying a hot shoe to a hoof.. everything went flying but luckily he threw himself the right way.

Common sense and good manners seem to have died out in some of the younger generation!! And before I get shouted at.. I love teens and spend ages with them, its the few that spoil it for the rest.
 
YorksG said:
I'm Pearlsasingers sister, we currently have two youngsters, a two year old cob and a three year old appaloosa. They also lead well, move away from the door and wait to be invited to come out after the door has been fully opened (we don't want them to have knocked hips!) The three year old has had a cut sole, which then abscessed. She needed vet treatment, twice, with IV sedation, which led to her not being over keen on picking her feet up. We have been picking her feet up just about everytime we have got near her since! She gets a treat when she does it, the task is repeated until she does it properly and she only gets the treat when she does it right. She is currently picking up her feet quite nicely again. Training horses is pretty much the same as training dogs and children IMO consistant, understandable messages, which are rewarded when the behaviour is what you want, punishment is rare, but swift and proportionate.
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Needs a *like* button. Agree totally.
 
I gave up trying to put Ned in a stable. He was going to kill himself!

He is actually very good when I'm in there with him. He'll move back when I enter and won't try and barge me out the way and will wait until I tell him he can leave. But it just wasn't safe for anyone. He wasn't rude, he was terrified :(

He was a very unhappy horse at both previous yards. Now he's in the field with one friend, he's a different horse! Near perfect manners and so chilled out. I strongly believe sometimes it's the environment, not just lack of training.
 
khalswitz said:
I stand by that. Being bargy etc is easy enough to solve, and neither of mine were bargy with me for long - but with someone who they could get away with? That is more about temperament than training - if they are the type that will chance their arm with someone who won't stop them, then once they've learned that's very hard to undo. Equally a horse that runs through your hands, or weaves and cribs when tied, or calls for its friends when stabled alone - these things are very hard to undo once they've been done.
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I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I think the point OP was making is that some people do not know or do not bother to 'stop them'. You and I obviously do know how to and regularly do so. IME there are VERY few horses that won't take advantage of people who don't stop them but even when they have been allowed to do as they please in a previous home, consistency and clear direction with rewards for doing the right thing can and does change their behaviour for the better.
 
I'm sorry I haven't read all the posts (phone being silly and will not load page 2 of posts!)

I just through I would ask any one give advice of how to train good manners in to your horse?
I have heard from some people just a firm hand,others say rewards (how ever will they not always look for them?) and one lady told me clicker training?
Also the OP mentioned training horses to settle on there own could to let me know how you go about this?

And do the same training methods work on older horses as well as young stock?

Sorry for all the questions I two do not like rude horses but would like to know what the best ways are for correcting them as I will be looking after a couple in January and don't wish to be stepped or jumped on!! Either do I want to be dragged through mud!!
 
AA, am also totally with you.

Neighbour was amazed last week (when I did hers for the evening) - horrified that not only did I tie hers up after bringing in, but feet picked, brushed off with rugs shaken & replaced.
Apparently I was supposed to just open the gate & let them into their stables for the night.

I wont handle anyone elses without having them suitably sorted - have been caught out in the past with 'dear quiet fuzzy' that has tanked off, barged or been plain thuggish.

TFF, old school :)
 
Chan said:
I gave up trying to put Ned in a stable. He was going to kill himself!

He is actually very good when I'm in there with him. He'll move back when I enter and won't try and barge me out the way and will wait until I tell him he can leave. But it just wasn't safe for anyone. He wasn't rude, he was terrified :(

He was a very unhappy horse at both previous yards. Now he's in the field with one friend, he's a different horse! Near perfect manners and so chilled out. I strongly believe sometimes it's the environment, not just lack of training.
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Agree with this too. We had a fairly elderly (14ish) IDxTB who we got cheap from a riding school because he was borderline dangerous - was very food aggressive, girthy, would bite, kick squish you against the wall and his final coup was discovering that if he "fell" during a lesson he was put away and left alone. I hasten to add that the RS we got him from wasn't to blame - they did their level best to get him right , but he had apparently been at couple of very unpleasant places and had become thoroughly disenchanted with life. After about six weeks of one to one with us, just quiet hacking and a gentle routine he became a totally different horse - well mannered , gentle characterful (in a good way!!) and he stayed with us for the rest of his life, and taught my granddaughter to ride. The only time he refused to do something when asked was when we were moving yards, and he wouldn't load. I had to ride him to the new yard (an interesting ride - it was 4 in the afternoon on Christmas Eve). We think he thought we'd sold him cos when we got to the new yard he looked round, checked that mum, dad and best mate were there, and settled in instantly!
 
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