Equine podiatry

[eventer28]

Who has horses barefoot and what level do you ride and compete? Both my horses are shoe-less at the moment but are having a holiday after the show season. I have a rising 4yo mediumweight showhunter type that had shoes for the in-hand summer show season and a rising 5yo coloured mediumweight hunter that had front shoes for the ridden youngster classes. Both have great feet and dont have any probs being barefoot.. I aim to show both horses next season and do some SJ with the 5yo.. I hack both in front easy-boots ATM but would like to hear more about barefoot trims and equine podiatry. Im in Leeds, anyone know of a QUALIFIED barefoot trimmer?

 

[PopStrop]

I've got an EP who does my mini, if you look at this page Institute of Applied Equine Podiatry there's more info & a contact list of approved EPs.

 

[_daisy_]

all 4 of mine are barefoot. I have an EP who is fab. I do a bit of everything with mine. theyve all done a bit of xc/sj/bd/hunting (well apart from the 2 yo)

where abouts in Leeds are you? im in Sheffield and i think my EP comes out to Leeds.

if you want to read up on barefoot trims these are 2 great books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Horse-Owners-Gui...7745&sr=8-7

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Natural-H...7799&sr=8-2

 

[LynneB]

I'm really interested in this too. I am going to ask a really stupid question though, sorry. I have had my 3 year old mare since she was a baby, she is now in foal so has never been in ridden work. Obviously, she is barefoot. My other mare was backed briefly before I bought her but by the time I did she also was in foal and barefoot.
My question is, both of my girls have their feet trimmed regularly by the usual farrier for the other shod horses where I keep them. Can he not continue doing this if they were in ridden work?
Sorry if it is a really obvious answer but I wondered why a special barefoot trimmer would be needed rather than a farrier.....

 

[Herbie31]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really interested in this too. I am going to ask a really stupid question though, sorry. I have had my 3 year old mare since she was a baby, she is now in foal so has never been in ridden work. Obviously, she is barefoot. My other mare was backed briefly before I bought her but by the time I did she also was in foal and barefoot.
My question is, both of my girls have their feet trimmed regularly by the usual farrier for the other shod horses where I keep them. Can he not continue doing this if they were in ridden work?
Sorry if it is a really obvious answer but I wondered why a special barefoot trimmer would be needed rather than a farrier.....

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I understand EP is that the feet are trimmed in such a way to build up their strength - a normal 'trim' from a farrier may not do this.

The EP gives an initial assessment and scoring of the feet and over time this scoring increases with the number of EP trims to the maximum that that particular horse could acheive.

Don't quote me on this, the link already given will give much more info

 

[HelsB]

I ride and compete my boy barefoot and my farrier trims him

 

[Storminateacup]

I was going to post an item on this subject and then saw your post. I want to try my boy barefoot next year as I have not a great deal of success with traditional shoeing in the area ( he used to be in NB shoes in Kent). Do you or anyone reading these posts know of an EP in the Scottish Highlands in the Dingwall, Invergordon area. Thanks

 

[Shiraz]

QR - I got an EP out to one of my mares and I have to say she didn't install me with confidence. Didn't answer my questions fully, slated farriers and diagnosed things that weren't there!

My mare is now unshod rather than "barefoot" and my farrier trims her. TBH I don't know why I even went to an EP, a farrier spents 4yrs+ training and doing an apprenticeship, but I was just trying all options as I'd had a bad experience with a previous farrier who had lamed her.

A good farrier is more than capable of doing a trim and balancing the foot. At the end of the day a trim is a trim with the main thing being that the foot is balanced.

There are so many schools of thought with the "mustang breakover" and how the "wild" horse's foot is shaped. The only wild equine is the zebra and you only have to look at the condition they live in, the climate and their diet to realise that in no way can they compare to our horses in the UK. Mustang/Brumbies are feral rather than wild and are "managed". Human's dictate where they graze and when. The mustang toe roll that is made much of my some barefoot practicioners is actually because they dig through the snow in winter and this wears their toes; hence that being their foot shape when they are rounded up in spring. It's not natural wear of something that can be fitted into our equine's habitats in the UK. If that's the route you want to go down it's no biggie to ask the farrier to roll the toes/edges slightly.

The EP we got out also said our mare had a touch of seedy toe that the farrier must have shod over and WLD so I followed all her instructions to a T and was raging at myself for not noticing it and the farrier. I then got majorly paranoid about the my other two's feet as they were showing the same "signs". The farrier was out to my 2 not much later so I got him to check the unshod horse (EP has made her too short so farrier had nothing to trim) and he said it had no WLD/seedy toe and neither had the others. EP was filling my head with farriers not caring and just doing the job as quick as they could etc so when vet was out got him to have a look too and he said their feet were totally healthy. I do think that by certain camps there is a lot of anti-shoeing/farrier propaganda.

To me it makes more sense to use someone who's dedicated years to training to trim. Just my opinion.

Also EP was £60 for a trim/travel (same as a full set of shoes!) and farrier is £15. The money wasn't an issue for me and if the EP had helped then I would have continued to use her but I was very disappointed. Can you imagine the outrage if a farrier tried to charge £60 for a trim!?

 

[_daisy_]

the difference between a farrier trim and an EP trim is this (from what I have seen demonstrated on my horses)
A farrier will trim the foot flat, take the frog back as much as he/she can. the edges of the foot will be rasped.

An EP will leave the sole alone. The frog is also left alone. A naturally barefoot horse will shed what it needs.
as the sole hardens it also pulls up so becomes concave. the frog starts working as it would naturally and becomes like a cushion for the foot - like suspension on a car. The quarters of the foot naturally do not come into contact with the ground. The EP will (well mine does) roll the toes therefore ensuring thaat the wall doesnt break away with the riding I do (mainly road hacking)

Because the quarters are not in contact with the ground unlike the way the farrier does it, you have lot less breakage of the hoof wall.
The foot also pumps more blood around it, which also helps heals things. My mare was retired and withing 4 weeks of going natural barefoot i was able to start riding her. I had a few farriers that tried shoeing her and trimming her but none could get her to stay sound. The EP has.

The books i mention above show this in great detail.

 

[LynneB]

thank you Daisy and Herbie.

 

[Bounty]

I have 4 TBs shoeless (I hate the term barefoot as to me it conjures up related images of parelli, treeless saddles etc etc).

The farrier trims the 3yo and my 18yo as their feet are pretty good anyway. My other two are done by an EP. This is because their feet were less than perfect and they were having the shoes removed for remedial reasons. I wanted to continue working them and needed someone to 'hold my hand' during the change from being shod to going naked, as my EP offers a lot more in depth support than my farrier. However, now they are working happily barefoot I am going to be moving those two back under the care of my farrier as I feel able to go it alone without my EP now.

ATM my lot don't compete - the 3yo is obviously only 3(!) and the 18yo has a foal at foot. Of the other two, one is recovering from KS surgery and the other is under investigation for neurological issues. However, with their soundness I would happily compete (dr/sj) barefoot on a surface. They hack out barefoot on all surfaces with no hint of tenderness, and I would like to keep them naked for as long as I can.
However, whether the foot growth can keep up with the increased workload when they all come back into full work (RC/BE/polocrosse/trec/fun rides) remains to be seen.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have a pro barefoot farrier, but he does trim the sole, which makes me wince. At the moment my horse is shod, but his shoes are coming off soon for the winter.

I would say that my horse's feet were far, far better when trimmed by an EP, who did a fanatastic job. He wouldn't be rude about farriers, and he isn't anti-shoes as such, as every horse is different. Having shoes on is a LOT less hassle than without, but I think that if I hadn't had the shoes off for about 18 months I would have a lame horse now, due to internal foot problems. The period of shoelessness has strengthened his feet, he is walking so much better.

As the for horse that has never been shod - don't have shoes put on. The fact that it is unshod means that the foot has been able to develop naturally and presumably it is perfectly sound in the field. It would be worth buying a book to study to see how a farrier trim or a barefoot trim differ, but the it should be OK with a farrier trimming it - which is considerably cheaper.

Lots of EPS are coming to horses that have had previous problems so they are starting from a very low point and have to gradually try and get the hoof functioning properly again.
Many horses have been brought back from being PTS by EPs.

There are barefoot hunters around, also dressage horses and eventers. I actually found mine more surefooted without shoes, when they had developed correctly.

If I bought a young horse now, that had never had shoes on, I wouldn't put shoes on unless it was completely necessary. Previously I just had the horse shod, "just because" I never questioned WHY it suddenly needed shoes at a certain age.

 

[_daisy_]

orangehorse I agree with everything you have said. My last chance with my mare was the EP, i was in the frame of mind of, well ive got nothing to loose and everything to gain if it works. If it didnt she was going to be PTS but if it worked she woukld be sound. I owe my EP everything.

My EP has been trimming for about 13 years. She regularly attends training clinics and i have wonderful conversations with her about feet and legs - shes even been to the local crem and asked for some legs so we can strip and boil them down and have a look at the bone structure (disgusting I know but ive learnt so much by it)

I had my last youngster shod because it was what you did, shes now barefoot and has been for nearly 2 years. My 2yo will never have shoes on, her feet are great, well developed and rock hard.

My EP never slags any farrier/vet off just because they have a different view to her. She never forced me to try barefoot. She knew i was interested but unsure so it was her that recommended me reading up first then i would understand what was going to happen should i take that step forward. Havent looked back once.