Even more reluctant to walk on road after being shod?

friesian80

friesian80

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My horse has just turned 5, he had been barefoot up till now but used to be a bit footy when hacking out on the roads, always looked to walk on the grassy verge instead of the road. As he will be working a good bit more this summer I got front shoes on him in the hope that he would be more comfortable on the road which he was for the first 4-5 days after being shod, however he has reverted back to wanting to walk on the grassy verge, his stride has shortened and he is reluctant to trot. He is not lame and when I trot him up without rider on the road he looks straight but when being ridden holds his head slightly to the left ever so slightly, just enough that I can see the bit ring on the left but not the right.

I know my horse and know he isnt 100% comfortable, I have checked his poll for tenderness and he is fine, Ive checked all around the nails on his shoes by tapping with hoofpick and there is no tenderness.

I had someone come out and do Equine Touch on him and he was very relaxed apart from a little tension in the withers area but nothing to worry about.

Can anyone suggest what I should do next? Could it be he is just getting used to the different balance of shoes? Should I have shoes removed? Should I give him time off or work him through it?

Any suggestions would be helpful
 
At this time of year, laminitis would be my first thought. Especially if he was footy before, the shoes may have disguised it for a short time but as the lami has progressed even the shoes are no longer disguising it. Also fits with your description of his short strides & reluctance to trot.
 
He is a perfect weight, never has been overweight, on a very low sugar diet of speedibeet, non molassed chaff and lo-cal balancer. Gets very little grass (he spends a lot of time on hardstanding due to the wet fields) mostly hay.

His feet are very good, no rings on the hooves and hard as rock, big healthy frogs too.

Im totally baffled???
 
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If it is lami - then the shoes have provided a numbing effect, but not sorted out the original issue.

It would be interesting to see some pics of the hooves.

I would take the horse off grass for 24 - 48 hours and see if there is any difference.

Then you will have an answer.

(p.s. before anyone accuses me of telling people to shut horses in stables and deny them freedom - I am suggesting keeping off grass for a short time for observation purposes only.)
 
I have a trimmer friend in the Shetland Isles - Scotland often has a very funky mineral balance in the grass.
 
If he was sensitive barefoot and it's not relieved with shoes imo you need to delve a bit deeper into what is causing his sensitivity. Thin soles, diet, thrush etc. Have you considered boots for him rather than shoes? Are your roads stony or lots of chippings? Usually smooth roads are a comfortable surface.
 
He has been on hardstanding all winter with access to his stable, I put him on a pretty bare grass field yesterday morning, there is really just a picking of grass on it
 
Being a healthy weight & having good hard hooves doesn't mean that he doesn't have laminitis. Rings don't appear at the onset of a laminitis attack, they are visible after as the hoof grows. Some horses have a lower tolerance than others, & depends on the quality of the grass too.
 
amandap said:
If he was sensitive barefoot and it's not relieved with shoes imo you need to delve a bit deeper into what is causing his sensitivity. Thin soles, diet, thrush etc. Have you considered boots for him rather than shoes? Are your roads stony or lots of chippings? Usually smooth roads are a comfortable surface.
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Yes I tried renegade boots which worked ok (he still prefered to go on the grass verge) but we ride to the beach a lot in the summer and boots are no good for that so I thought shoes would be the answer.
His feet are really good, I will get pics of them tomorrow. The barefoot trimmer has always complimented his feet saying they really are ideal.
Yes the roads are quite stoney, tarmac with chips on but not overly jabby.
All the other horses we hack out with some barefoot some shod manage on them.
 
friesian80 said:
He has been on hardstanding all winter with access to his stable, I put him on a pretty bare grass field yesterday morning, there is really just a picking of grass on it
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When did he start becoming short etc?
A picking of grass can be very high in sugars (stressed) and worse for some horses than long over grown grass.
Does he have hay or haylage? Some hays can be high in sugars too. Is it a new supply?
 
Agree with Oberon, get him off the grass for a few days, soak hay and then see if it helps......

Another thing to add is horses of any size or health can get lami, yes the risk is reduced if they are the right weight and in work but a sudden rush of spring grass or frosty grass can push even the most fit and fibre fed horse into laminitis.

Or jus bite the bullet and get vet to do a full lameness work up/ or come out and xray all four hooves.....

X
 
littlelegs said:
Being a healthy weight & having good hard hooves doesn't mean that he doesn't have laminitis. Rings don't appear at the onset of a laminitis attack, they are visible after as the hoof grows. Some horses have a lower tolerance than others, & depends on the quality of the grass too.
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The grass is in no way rich and is still very short due to all the rain we have had, Im still supplimenting with hay/haylage.
As he is on such a low sugar diet I wouldnt expect lami

I wonder if its the different balance with shoes on that has caused his muscles to be a bit tender. There are little gaps between the shoe and hoof at the front as he naturally rolled his hoof barefoot but obviously with shoes its a different motion when he walks which could perhaps cause tension in his muscles??
 
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Short grass is more likely to trigger it. Our field looks pretty bare, but the lami prone horse on the yard had hot feet several weeks ago, despite being a healthy weight & is restricted now.
 
littlelegs said:
Short grass is more likely to trigger it. Our field looks pretty bare, but the lami prone horse on the yard had hot feet several weeks ago, despite being a healthy weight & is restricted now.
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Ok ill take him in tomorrow morning and keep him off grass how long till I should see a difference if it is lami?

Also is haylage ok to feed as I have no hay atm or does it have a higher sugar content?

ETA: there is no heat in his hooves at all
 
There was no heat or pulses in my lami and he ended up having 13 degree rotation in one and12.5 degree rotation in the other hoove, vet said not all horses follow the basic signrg.

X
 
friesian80 said:
Ok ill take him in tomorrow morning and keep him off grass how long till I should see a difference if it is lami?

Also is haylage ok to feed as I have no hay atm or does it have a higher sugar content?

ETA: there is no heat in his hooves at all
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Should see a slight improvement after 24 hours if it's a grass issue.

Depends on the sugar level of the haylage, which you won't know without testing it.

If you have no hay (which is fair enough - I can't get hay either) then the haylage will have to do.

This website might prove interesting to you
http://www.safergrass.org/articles.html
 
friesian80 said:
I wonder if its the different balance with shoes on that has caused his muscles to be a bit tender. There are little gaps between the shoe and hoof at the front as he naturally rolled his hoof barefoot but obviously with shoes its a different motion when he walks which could perhaps cause tension in his muscles??
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I wonder if you could be onto something with this? OH mare was footy and lame on rougher stuff (including roads with gravel on) because her medial lateral balance was out and strained her collateral ligaments. It showed like normal sugary footiness which is why it took us so long to get on to it (we didn't work it out to be fair, Nic could see it so helped us start to fix it). How is your horse if left to work his own balance out and isn't trimmed - this is the only way we can keep our girl sound. If someone walks your horse towards you does he land heel first but level infront, and heel first but outside edge just before on behind?
 
A longer break over and toe, meaning the horse is constantly walking over the toe rather than rolling naturally, is a common issue.

As is the toe first landing, rather than naturally heel first.

These are issues to explore once the grass has been ruled out.

Suddenly, just sorting the diet and giving an appropriate trim isn't looking so complicated now, is it
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Had vet out who definately doesnt think its lami, also spoke to the breeder and in all her time has never seen a friesian with lamanitis.

Vet gave a weeks course of danillon so will review next Monday when the course is finished. Meanwhile I took a few pics of his fronts with my phone, they are not great but someone did ask to see the pics so here they are, any suggestions welcome!

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And body shot to give you idea of weight, I know not all horse with Lami are overweight but he certainly isnt too fat.
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Well it certainly makes him dosey!!! After having his meal with it in he stands there quite sleepy for a few minutes. Im keeping him quiet so have not taken him out the small field since being on it so dont know what he is like on the road now but he is still quite sore I think as he is just not himself
 
Did he have slightly sqiunt feet before he was shod? Are they now nice and even? Kalli was made lame by shoes: she had squint feet because she NEEEDED squint feet and the farrier making them nice and symetrical didn't help her at all!

There is also the potential of concusive laminitis: he'll no doubt have the high foot action of most fresians and will be hitting the ground really hard with big chunks of metal!
 
He looks like he has really shallow soles? Im not sure if that's actually the right word I'm looking for! Shoes also don't seem to be giving a lot of heel support either.

Could be way off and talking rubbish too but the shoe looks like its touching the frog?
 
Kbear there isa gap at the front as he naturally rolled his fronts when barefoot obv with shoes he cant do that and yea he does have high knee action so i did wonder if ir was concusion from the road but other friesians manage and the lady i bought him from has never seen this problem before in the manyshe has sold over the years
 
Kallibear said:
There is also the potential of concusive laminitis: he'll no doubt have the high foot action of most fresians and will be hitting the ground really hard with big chunks of metal!
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That is a very good point Lou,have known two cases of concussive lammi,and have to say neither horse fitted the 'type' remotely in any way,but the trauma to the feet from metal shoes (one after many years barefoot,other from really poor farrier work) was just too much and lammi was the result.

That aside though I actually have an idea,but it totally depends on if I'm seeing the pics properly and they're a good angle etc.He looks like his sole and frog are very near the ground,even with the shoes?? Not much concavity of sole and large frogs maybe?? If that is correct then perhaps he was footy and that was the problem and still is despite the shoes as his sole is still feeling the surface as no clearance?? Although still need to figure out why he would be sore on his sole,but does happen sometiems and weather has been extreme where you are and all messed up for time of year.Or how about soft frogs that are a bit tender?? The Jack lad had that problem when I first got him,very footy on stones as been out on wet ground for 3 months and frog had got soft.

Just a thought,but as I said on other post on fresian thread trust your gut,you know best when it comes to Vel.
 
dumpling said:
He looks like he has really shallow soles? Im not sure if that's actually the right word I'm looking for! Shoes also don't seem to be giving a lot of heel support either.

Could be way off and talking rubbish too but the shoe looks like its touching the frog?
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Lol pretty much what meant about the soles but much less waffling than me!!

I didn't want to say as I am not great with shoes and thought maybe was just my eyes,but have to say Lou does not look like the best shoeing job to me either TBH.
 
Weight and lami are often but not always related. There are a lot of skinnies out there who have got lami as there are many causes.

The pics are not showing well on the phone, but even so the hooves don't look great to me. I work on quite a few of this breed and generally the feet look much better than those in the photo.

I have trouble believing the notion that this breed or that doesn't get lami. Some may be less prone, but so much is controlled by management. You can take a horse that has great trouble free feet, move location and within a short space of time they are not so good.

I'd like a better shot of the soles and a close up side view too.
 
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