Eventing team for WEG announced.

lannerch

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where did i say OT got a card? i did not!


i don`t agree with your opinion all, but you are entitled to it, as you are so defensive would i be right in assuming you think it is right to hit horses when they are apparently doing their best?


horses are flesh and blood, but more than that they are living creatures with minds and yes, feelings, moods, tendencies, and more importantly inherited traits that show in the way they perform and how they cope under stress, part of being a great horseman is understanding this and having the ability to counteract difficulties without resorting to taking it out on the horse, whether in a horses deficient performance or when the horse is tiring on the cross country course
The winners choose not to get yellow cards certainly try’s to infer OT did!

Apart from that your answer does not deserve a reply and nor will get one.
 

popsdosh

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maybe there is no answer available to you,? certainly not one involving justifying the unjustifiable

You are creating a very high pedestal for you to fall from. At the end of the day talent shows through and separates the top riders from the weekend riders . There is a system in place and it cautioned him yet you cant accept that ,I think that makes it your problem unless you are good enough to make up the GJ
 

tristar

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i think that some of the best trainers riders i know don`t compete, i truly believe that competition is not necessarily the ultimate or only definition of `the best riders`

i sincerely believe that many `weekend riders`are very good riders indeed and its not fair to use their status as a put down or infer they in inferior, unless you put yourself on a pedestal.
 

lannerch

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You are creating a very high pedestal for you to fall from. At the end of the day talent shows through and separates the top riders from the weekend riders . There is a system in place and it cautioned him yet you cant accept that ,I think that makes it your problem unless you are good enough to make up the GJ
Exactly poshdosh results speak louder than words and results week in week out cannot be obtained by terrorising your horses, they are only obtained by a harmonious relashionship. Who is world no 1 again?
 

ycbm

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Exactly poshdosh results speak louder than words and results week in week out cannot be obtained by terrorising your horses, they are only obtained by a harmonious relashionship

What fairy dairy land do you live in? Horses are very compliant creatures and are all around the world working through various amounts of pain because they are told to. Rollkur was/is a highly successful training method. Top showjumpers use all kinds of gadgets and get caught for it. In the eighties I stabled with a foreign eventing Olympic team member who beat his horse until it bled during one training session. The ten or so top riders I've met have been driven characters, hard as nails and mostly totally unsentimental about their horses.
 

lannerch

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What fairy dairy land do you live in? Horses are very compliant creatures and are all around the world working through various amounts of pain because they are told to. Rollkur was/is a highly successful training method. Top showjumpers use all kinds of gadgets and get caught for it. In the eighties I stabled with a foreign eventing Olympic team member who beat his horse until it bled during one training session. The ten or so top riders I've met have been driven characters, hard as nails and mostly totally unsentimental about their horses.

The real fairy dairy life ! you will get the odd exceptional horse who does comply but as a rule when a horse says no it says no. You may get some sort of result by force but you will never get the results day in day out to make your way to world no 1. That is only achieved by having a true partnership with your horses. You may not be sentimental but you still have to ride with balance and feeling, and work with the horse not force!
Force gets short term results the results never last. A short term fix.

Just go and watch a local ode, or even fun ride and you will see dozens of examples of how non compliant horses ( infact the majority of horses at the last one I witnesssd ) can be when faced with force ,
 
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ycbm

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Riding with balance and feeling is skilled riding. Nobody disputes that Townend is an exceptionally skilled rider. Neither is anyone saying that you can use force to reach the top. But it clearly doesn't prevent action now defined as abuse, which is why he and others in all disciplines are getting warnings and cards. And success does not mean that they are kind to their horses or that they have a partnership with them on any emotional level.

Can you not see that? Or do you genuinely think a rider with a partnership hits a horse to get it around a three star when it has been running out in the collecting ring?

I think most of us think that at three star, if your horse is running out in the collecting ring, you should take it home and find out why, not hit it round a course of that size, no matter what result you achieve at the end.

Your comment about local events is irrelevant. Top riders can get results out of horses which lesser riders can't. Including convincing them to work through pain. This forum is littered with examples of horses sent to pros for remedial training of 'behavioural' problems, returned to the owner 'fixed' only to go wrong again and later get a diagnosis of ulcers, PSD, kissing spines or bilateral lameness.
 
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lannerch

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Riding with balance and feeling is skilled riding. Nobody disputes that Townend is an exceptionally skilled rider. Neither is anyone saying that you can use force to reach the top. But it clearly doesn't prevent action now defined as abuse, which is why he and others in all disciplines are getting warnings and cards. And success does not mean that they are kind to their horses or that they have a partnership with them on any emotional level.

Can you not see that? Or do you genuinely think a rider with a partnership hits a horse to get it around a three star when it has been running out in the collecting ring?

I think most of us think that at three star, if your horse is running out in the collecting ring, you should take it home and find out why, not hit it round a course of that size, no matter what result you achieve at the end.

Your comment about local events is irrelevant. Top riders can get results out of horses which lesser riders can't. Including convincing them to work through pain. This forum is littered with examples of horses sent to pros for remedial training of 'behavioural' problems, returned to the owner 'fixed' only to go wrong again and later get a diagnosis of ulcers, PSD, kissing spines or bilateral lameness.

No I cannot see it. I have used my whip at times my horse has needed correcting. Even Carl Heston has been known to use his whip. Sometimes it has its place, which could include a collecting ring in a 3*. And probably was correct in the case your thinking of as the horse went in to win, and had a lovely fluent cc round with no whip needed again.
( However definitely does not include a tired horse being pushed to hard around badminton. )

And not every horse that refuses has physical issues, that’s ridiculous to suggest. Sometimes it’s purely the way it’s been ridden ie very badly!
 
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ycbm

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And not every horse that refuses has physical issues, that’s ridiculous to suggest. Sometimes it’s purely the way it’s been ridden ie very badly!

Which would be exactly why I did not say it.

Going back to these wonderful partnerships that you say as Twitter to win at to level, have you forgotten, or are you too young to remember, when horses were selected for the Olympics and given to a more skilled rider for the one competition?

Or Mark Todd winning Badminton on Horton Point as a scratch ride?

You write as if winning is all that matters. It won, so it must have been OK. I don't agree.
 

lannerch

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Which would be exactly why I did not say it.

Going back to these wonderful partnerships that you say as Twitter to win at to level, have you forgotten, or are you too young to remember, when horses were selected for the Olympics and given to a more skilled rider for the one competition?
Or Mark Todd winning Badminton on Horton Point as a scratch ride?

You write as if winning is all that matters. It won, so it must have been OK. I don't agree.

I wish I was that young lol , and if winning was all that mattered I would have given up years ago .
I do still event but I have never won, not come close for the last few years, and not because I beat my horse round or ride particularly badly but more because I have inherent sat nav problems if I remember the dressage test I lose my way on the sj or more usually the cross country. So no winning is not important.

I may have to give up as my horse has just been found to have navicular ( and no he showed no behaviour changes just went slightly footy ) but that is a different story.
 

tristar

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sorry to hear your horse has navicular syndrome, but we are so lucky to have hh forum, who support and share experiences to help other people.

we know that horses stop because of pain or bad riding, also its the horse`s responsibility to stop when finding itself wrong at a jump, a self preservation action

maybe now we can also say its entitled to stop if its rider is trying to `win ugly`

.
 
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