Experiences of part livery (whatever happened to assisted)

[cheekywelshie]

I don’t know what it’s like everywhere else but over the past few years at least where we are it seems there’s less availability for decent assisted DIY and it’s either DIY or Full/Part livery. Probably because it makes more business sense and assisted isn’t profitable.

After 14 years on mainly assisted DIY I’m on part livery but in summer they live out no hay /bedding included and one feed a day. You provide own feed. If you want to give them evening feed you need to bring them in yourself. Any hay is charged extra. Which feels a bit DIY anyway?

With petrol prices high it makes it difficult to travel longer distances though so livery choices are limited.

What are everyone’s experiences of part livery??

 

[Widgeon]

I'm on DIY but it's effectively assisted DIY - the owner lives and works on site and has her horses there, so she feeds mine breakfast and takes his rug off in the morning. I come down after work to ride and poo pick the field, then put his rug back on if necessary when I turn him out. Basic feed is provided, as is hay. In the winter I feed him his hay (they're all out 24/7 for as long as possible) because it's heavy and takes too long for YO to struggle up the fields with it for all the horses. So essentially she does the quick easy jobs and I do everything that takes longer or is heavier work. I arrange my own vet visits and fall in with the YO for dentist, physio, farrier.

It works really well for me, but it requires a bit of give and take, and because it's a small yard I try to help with other jobs when I have a bit of extra time. On a bigger yard I'd imagine that would become a nightmare to police and some people would want to stick strictly to their contract while others would help a bit more. I wonder whether assisted DIY is falling out of favour as people become more time-poor and prefer to pay for things to be done for them? And every horse's requirements are different, so for example if you offer to do morning feeds, what about the person whose horse doesn't need a morning feed? Does she start to complain that she's getting less? Do you do a different job for her instead? Pure DIY (i.e YO totally hands off) or complete full livery (YO / staff do everything) must be much easier to manage.

 

[SEL]

Last time I was on part livery it was either turn out or bring in with the relevant feed included and rug change.

Most people paid a bit extra to have both ends of the day done. No hay in stables or fields unless you put it out or were on the "mucking out" package. No poo picking.

Mine stayed out 24:7 and when I was away they fed in the field and I paid extra for poo picking.

Tbh what you're describing does sound like most of the basic part livery options around here

 

[teapot]

No livery is profitable, assisted ie needing someone else to do something even less so!

The biggest problem is the staffing crisis in the industry - easier to not offer any form of help, than have to keep letting liveries down, which may explain why you’re struggling to find as many options.

 

[chocolategirl]

No livery is profitable, assisted ie needing someone else to do something even less so!

The biggest problem is the staffing crisis in the industry - easier to not offer any form of help, than have to keep letting liveries down, which may explain why you’re struggling to find as many options.

I often wonder to myself if livery clients think yard owners are exempt for hikes in the cost of living too! Not having a go per se, but having run my assisted DIY yard for over 2 decades, I can tell you, there’s no money in it, and we have to use other businesses to subsidise the livery. Liability insurance is one of my biggest outlays, and I’m sure many yards don’t even bother with it, hence why they can charge a pittance for livery.

 

[blitznbobs]

Assisted is too difficult to plan for… sometimes you need extra staff, sometimes you dont… its almost impossible to cater for without lots of availability of ad hoc staff which is almost impossible to come by these days and definitely not reliably.

 

[criso]

Round here assisted seems to be more common than DIY but on a fixed price basis e.g. monthly price including one turnout or catch in per day, not hoc services as needed. I can see the logic as the level of services needed won't change as much and in the winter all horses come in at the same time before dark.

However even assisted is less common than part or full which includes all basic care for part or also including exercise, grooming etc for full.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm very much like Widgeon on assisted DIY so only need to go up once a day although I've quite often gone up twice when I've felt the need.
Ours get a lunctime tub we've left out for them if they are out overnight and in during the day. If they are in overnight they get a late night tub around 9pm. We get turnout and bring in, also at weekends and bank holidays for an additional fee. Works really well.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I have some 'assisted livery' clients. When they leave there will not be any more! I am often left feeling 'put upon'. They treat me as if it's full livery, expecting constant rug changes and fly masks and don't even start me on farrier visits. constant text messages, farrier will be 'sometime after lunch' impossible to make plans. People expect me to go out at 8.30pm to remove fly mask and put on a rug. Can't be done earlier as too warm. They can't do it as they are 'going out'. Sorry, bit of a rant.

 

[ponynutz]

Every DIY I've been on has actually been assisted DIY with the exception of one yard two doors down from my own home but that was my choice seeing as I lived so close to get up and feed etc in the morning. The 'assisted' was the option of turnout and brought in at night and fed morning and night if you weren't there (because owner lived so close and/or had own horses on yard). Most were down to feed and bring in anyway so it was only ever consistently feeding in the morning.

I have also been on part livery and really the only difference was you could 'book in' your horse to be looked after in full if you couldn't make it down etc and ask for extras like lunging, a groom etc if you wanted to.

Just my personal experience and bear in mind I've only been on 3 livery yards total.

 

[honetpot]

I'm very much like Widgeon on assisted DIY so only need to go up once a day although I've quite often gone up twice when I've felt the need.
Ours get a lunctime tub we've left out for them if they are out overnight and in during the day. If they are in overnight they get a late night tub around 9pm. We get turnout and bring in, also at weekends and bank holidays for an additional fee. Works really well.

Thats the problem, it sounds that its 'assisted' at least 12 hour day, including weekends and holidays. Not many yards could find the staff or afford them.

 

[Griffin]

I was on a part livery yard which was DIY at weekends. It was ok when the horses were in overnight but when they were in the field 24/7 there was no system for who was doing what, so consequently a couple of us ended up doing everything for all the horses in the fields every night. I would rather have done that than see a horse without hay and water but it wasn't great

I now have full livery in the week and assisted at weekends which suits me better because I still pop up in the evening after work but don't have to if I have a late meeting.

My ideal though would be part livery in the week and full at weekends!

 

[Starzaan]

I have been on both sides of the coin. For many many years I have managed and run livery yards, full, part and rehab yards primarily.
Now, I am done with the equine industry and will never work with horses again due to a terrible boss, but my boys are on part livery (which in my area means all chores done including grooming, ad lib haylage included, and bedding up to two bales of shavings per week (mine need more so I pay extra for whatever they need).
Having been the person living on site, I am often shocked by how many liveries don’t appreciate that yard managers, owners and grooms have lives. I have been called at 9pm to go and change a rug because someone forgot, or had eleven people ask me to put more hay in for their diy horses when I’m doing late checks - late checks are just that, checks, not an hour spent putting hay in stables. I would quite like to go to bed at some point too!
I think that yards need to be firmer about what they do and don’t include, and I always used to provide a welcome pack which included a clear outline of summer and winter routines. I was contactable 24:7 in an emergency, but not for ‘please could you help me put my tack away’.
yards need to be clearer, and liveries need to appreciate how expensive it is to run a yard, and that staff aren’t sat waiting for them at all times.

 

[cheekywelshie]

I like the idea of a fixed package that includes a turnout or a bring in or both. I’m just struggling with paying £450-500 a month in summer when they are out all the time and includes water top up, morning feed ( provided by owner) and harrowing. Full livery at weekends is the same. No hay or bedding included in summer so with the dry weather I might have to buy in hay on top of the 450.

 

[Starzaan]

Something else to remember is that generally livery yards make almost nothing in winter, and so anything that is saved in summer will normally go towards things like new jumps, upgrading things and maintenance.
I would never begrudge paying the same for summer and winter for my horses, I’ve been the one with liveries claiming I ‘do nothing’ in the summer because their horses are living out, so they should pay less.
The only time I would be annoyed is if services that are normally included in winter are no longer included, such as mucking out if I wanted my horse to be in rather than living out.
I think there’s a real problem in this country at the moment with a huge disconnect between liveries and yard owners. So many liveries simply have no idea what running a yard involves, and yard owners don’t tell them clearly.

 

[sport horse]

I think also liveries have to accept that staff within the equestrian industry now, quite rightly, want properly paid employment with holidays, sick pay, pensions etc and it is they, the liveries, that will have to pay for that.

The idea that you can DIY but ring someone up at silly o'clock, with no notice and expect them to pick up the pieces for £2.50 catch in, change rugs etc is not going to happen for much longer. Grooms have a life outside work and have bills to pay too.

 

[Birker2020]

.

The idea that you can DIY but ring someone up at silly o'clock, with no notice and expect them to pick up the pieces for £2.50 catch in, change rugs etc is not going to happen for much longer. Grooms have a life outside work and have bills to pay too.

It doesn't work like that though. Staff work from 8- 1pm and 3pm-5pm then do their own and/or go home.

If its an emergency after that time the y.o would help if they lived on site of course they would.

But if you were off work ill and then decided, at say 4pm, you couldn't go to the yard that evening and therefore rang to ask "would you please do a full day care for my horse?" when you should have rang at 9am, then that wouldn't be fair and is quite understandable if they said no.

Its having courtesy.

 

[cheekywelshie]

I like the idea of a fixed package that includes a turnout or a bring in or both. I’m just struggling with paying £450-500 a month in summer when they are out all the time and includes water top up, morning feed ( provided by owner) and harrowing. Full livery at weekends is the same. No hay or bedding included in summer

Something else to remember is that generally livery yards make almost nothing in winter, and so anything that is saved in summer will normally go towards things like new jumps, upgrading things and maintenance.
I would never begrudge paying the same for summer and winter for my horses, I’ve been the one with liveries claiming I ‘do nothing’ in the summer because their horses are living out, so they should pay less.
The only time I would be annoyed is if services that are normally included in winter are no longer included, such as mucking out if I wanted my horse to be in rather than living out.
I think there’s a real problem in this country at the moment with a huge disconnect between liveries and yard owners. So many liveries simply have no idea what running a yard involves, and yard owners don’t tell them clearly.

They are out 24/7. If we want our horses to come in in the day we need to do it and do the mucking out, feeding etc and buy hay.

 

[SO1]

We have staff living on site. If after 5pm someone called and said they could not come to yard till the next day due to an emergency. YO would make sure horse had hay and water but probably would not muck out until the next morning.

I am am part livery costs me nearly £800 a month but they do soak pony's hay and deal with farrier, vet, etc.

They don't do pure DIY at the yard as it is hard to split some tasks when some are on part and some on DIY. For example all fields are poo picked as no DIY only fields. All horse fed in the mornings at 6.45am, and all horses get late night check at 10pm so it is assisted DIY minimum. Most assisted DIY people also get turn out and catch in services during the week due to work or family commitments plus part livery when they are on holiday.

Most people are on part livery due to having full on stressful jobs with unpredictable hours including weekends sometimes such as working in law, banking, medicine or in other senior roles or family commitments. The DIYs tend to be younger and child free.

It doesn't work like that though. Staff work from 8- 1pm and 3pm-5pm then do their own and/or go home.

If its an emergency after that time the y.o would help if they lived on site of course they would.

But if you were off work ill and then decided, at say 4pm, you couldn't go to the yard that evening and therefore rang to ask "would you please do a full day care for my horse?" when you should have rang at 9am, then that wouldn't be fair and is quite understandable if they said no.

Its having courtesy.

 

[holeymoley]

I’m on assisted livery which is diy but with turn out and bring in included. This only works though as there are enough full liveries to make it worth while employing a staff member.

 

[Shysmum]

When I return to the UK, I want to put my boys on a part livery package. Mornings, mucking out and poo picking paid for. I have a very bad back.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

No livery is profitable, assisted ie needing someone else to do something even less so!

The biggest problem is the staffing crisis in the industry - easier to not offer any form of help, than have to keep letting liveries down, which may explain why you’re struggling to find as many options.

^^^ Not just this but if a YO offers "Assisted" livery and/or charges for anything such as rug-changing/bringing in etc - where they are actually handling someone else's horses then CCC (Care Custody & Control) insurance will be needed which costs a helluva lot extra.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

I’ve only been on part livery once…a small yard and yard owner did the work. It was turn out and bring in, putting prepped feeds in, prepped haynets being put in and rug changes. I would go once a day and would give YO a plan if the week so she would know when I would appear and whether she was bringing in or turning out etc..so she could plan her week too. Unfortunately it only lasted a few months as she forgot to put evening feeds in a few times (friends over and she forgot) and she kept moving my horses onto really abundant grass fields when she thought grass was running out and they got waayyyy too fat .

 

[Bobthecob15]

We are currently on part livery...in winter it's basically everything bar exercise (I supply hay bedding and feed) in summer (from April) horses are all out 24/7. They will bring in or turn out but only once a day and when it suits them. They put a bucket of feed into he fields for the horses and can do a rug change but that's it. But basically mine doesn't have a rug or hard feed now so he's basically left to it unless we come up to ride and groom etc. Easy money basically for them!

Moving yards next weekend as the routine doesn't suit us now, moving to Full livery which does include horse walker if we needed it. They are stabled overnight/during the day depending on time of year.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Oh and there are very few DIY yards here they have all switched to full livery or occasionally part. The DiY ones shut down I understand

 

[cheekywelshie]

We are currently on part livery...in winter it's basically everything bar exercise (I supply hay bedding and feed) in summer (from April) horses are all out 24/7. They will bring in or turn out but only once a day and when it suits them. They put a bucket of feed into he fields for the horses and can do a rug change but that's it. But basically mine doesn't have a rug or hard feed now so he's basically left to it unless we come up to ride and groom etc. Easy money basically for them!

Moving yards next weekend as the routine doesn't suit us now, moving to Full livery which does include horse walker if we needed it. They are stabled overnight/during the day depending on time of year.

sounds similar to ours except we don’t have any turnout or bring in

 

[ycbm]

No livery is profitable

Do you mean no DIY/ assisted DIY?

I'm sure the part livery barn I'm in is profitable. (Turn out, bring in, rug changes, poo pick, muck out, ad lib forage, 1 bale shavings, basic feed.) The manager has to rent the 20 stable barn and grazing off the centre and doesn't keep any of her horses there herself.

I can't think why she would continue to provide the service if it loses her money.
.

 

[teapot]

Do you mean no DIY/ assisted DIY?

I'm sure the part livery barn I'm in is profitable. (Turn out, bring in, rug changes, poo pick, muck out, ad lib forage, 1 bale shavings, basic feed.) The manager has to rent the 20 stable barn and grazing off the centre and doesn't keep any of her horses there herself.

I can't think why she would continue to provide the service if it loses her money.
.

I include all livery types because of staffing costs, insurance, rates, rent, cost of maintenance, feed/forage if suppplied, bedding if supplied, muck removal, general supplies etc etc. The margins are extremly tight, and I know how little a 50 horse yard made per month once all the above were paid for (and that was the most business orientated yard too...)

Any yard that doesn't charge upwards of £10.00 for say bringing a horse in etc, will def not be covering staff costs.

Your YM will be very lucky if they're breaking even, let alone into profit, especially at the moment! Most people who offer livery aren't in it for the money, instead the love of the job, horses, people.

 

[cheekywelshie]

I’m on part livery and it looks like I’ll be doing all the poo picking as well until they move fields as I can’t stand to see poo everywhere!

 

[SO1]

At our yard it takes 10 minutes to bring in 2 horses and so if they çharged £10 to catch in one that would be at a rate of £120 for an hours work which is a lot of money surely you can't be suggesting that sort of hour rate for a groom to catch in?

Part livery at the yard I am on is nearly £800 a month I cannot see how they are making a loss at that rate.

I

Any yard that doesn't charge upwards of £10.00 for say bringing a horse in etc, will def not be covering .