Extreme Napping

[[167536]]

We bought a little piebald cob from our daughters riding school a year ago as my 12yr old daughter had lost her confidence after a fall, from the start May was quite nappy and my daughter wasn’t very confident, she wouldn’t canter or really work her very much, gradually my daughters confidence has grown and the napping has got so much worst she vertically reared with her purely for asking her go ride in our field!

We’ve got an amazing trainer now and they’ve both come on so far however she is sooooo strong when she’s decided she’s had enough she’ll drag her to the gate she even jumped the fence of the school to get out yesterday! She’s in a basic snaffle so We are going to change her bit

We’ve had saddle fitters, teeth, vet every thing you can think of so I’m confident it’s bad habits and I really thought having this trainer had cracked it but yesterday was a particularly bad day! Has anyone had any experience with napping? Please tell me there’s a cure

 

[Irish Sally]

I would send the horse off for schooling tbh.

 

[[167536]]

Someone else has said this but surely when she comes back she’s just going to be the same eventually

 

[HopOnTrot]

What has the vet tested for specifically?

 

[misst]

As it is getting worse even with a good trainer and increasing confidence from your daughter I'd be getting the vet back out (or a different vet) for a head to toe lameness work up. If all came out ok then I would look at getting a very confident competent rider on her. But only after every option for pain is eliminated. Had a horse like this who turned out to have PSD, this lead to front foot pain and then SI joint problems. He was amazing when he wasn't in pain but when he was uncomfortable he was extreme in his reaction. I hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The problem with riding school ponies is that yes they may seem like the kindest and most forgiving, but people forget that they are usually in 2-3 hours of work 4+ days a week, and they know the routine. Rarely do they ever do much alone, and they are often nose to tail in the school and with ineffective riders, so they do their bit that they know well and rinse and repeat. When you take one out of that situation, most likely feed it more, give it less work and suddenly ask it to do things alone, it can be an incredibly hard transisiton and often they are very adept at knowing how to get around less confident/smaller riders, having carried them for years on end.

I personally would get a competent trainer on board to try and iron it out, or perhaps consider if the pony is for you if the behaviour is SO ingrained. Horse riding is supposed to be fun, not make you fear death and jumping out the school is quite extreme, as you say.

 

[Gloi]

Ponies from riding schools are often extremely nappy in a home situation as they are so used to working in a group they get very herd bound.
If your daughter is losing confidence I'd sell and get a pony used to doing the things she wants to do perhaps from a pony club home.

 

[[167536]]

Honestly getting rid of her isn’t an option! This horse is her entire world, there have been a lot of significant changes, before she couldn’t even get her to change transitions without her threatening to rear so a lot of good has changed, the napping isn’t all the time we have good days and not so good days I want to do every thing in my power to sort the napping

 

[[167536]]

The problem with riding school ponies is that yes they may seem like the kindest and most forgiving, but people forget that they are usually in 2-3 hours of work 4+ days a week, and they know the routine. Rarely do they ever do much alone, and they are often nose to tail in the school and with ineffective riders, so they do their bit that they know well and rinse and repeat. When you take one out of that situation, most likely feed it more, give it less work and suddenly ask it to do things alone, it can be an incredibly hard transisiton and often they are very adept at knowing how to get around less confident/smaller riders, having carried them for years on end.

I personally would get a competent trainer on board to try and iron it out, or perhaps consider if the pony is for you if the behaviour is SO ingrained. Horse riding is supposed to be fun, not make you fear death and jumping out the school is quite extreme, as you say.

Every thing you’ve written here is exactly May! She has a great life with us and really isn’t asked a lot of her! She’s amazing in so many other ways and has come on leaps and bounds, we have amazing days and some really crappy ones!

 

[[167536]]

I would send the horse off for schooling tbh.

Someone else has said this but surely when she comes back she’s just going to be the same eventually

 

[ycbm]

Honestly getting rid of her isn’t an option! This horse is her entire world, .....

the napping has got so much worst she vertically reared with her

I understand what you are saying but it's a parent's job to prevent their children from exposing themselves to serious danger.

Vertical rearing is very, very serious danger.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but think you need to ask yourself how you will feel if this pony puts your daughter in a wheelchair for the rest of her life.
.

 

[Caol Ila]

Wait... so this pony has reared vertically and jumped the fence of the school?

This sounds like it has some serious stuff going on. Not basic 'napping.' I'm pretty experienced (been riding for circa 30 years) and ride green horses (I don't even remember what an experienced horse feels like anymore), but I don't think I'd have the gallus to get on that. That is really dodgy, dangerous behaviour, for anybody.

Annoying but not dangerous napping = refusing to go forwards, going into reverse gear, maybe tanking to arena gate in trot or canter but not doing anything too stupid. These are normal behaviours for horses just out of a riding school but not terribly dangerous, as frustrating as they may be.

Unless the school fence is only 2ft high, but I'm imagining like a five bar gate.

It needs pro eyes on the ground and maybe a vet.

 

[[167536]]

Wait... so this pony has reared vertically and jumped the fence of the school?

This sounds like it has some serious stuff going on. Not basic 'napping.' I'm pretty experienced (been riding for circa 30 years) and ride green horses (I don't even remember what an experienced horse feels like anymore), but I don't think I'd have the gallus to get on that. That is really dodgy, dangerous behaviour, for anybody.

Annoying but not dangerous napping = refusing to go forwards, going into reverse gear, maybe tanking to arena gate in trot or canter but not doing anything too stupid. These are normal behaviours for horses just out of a riding school but not terribly dangerous, as frustrating as they may be.

Unless the school fence is only 2ft high, but I'm imagining like a five bar gate.

It needs pro eyes on the ground and maybe a vet.

The fence is only tape and plastic posts she’ll ride beautifully for a good 40 mins but then decides she’s had enough and completely ignore the bit and marches towards the “fence” pretty much walking trough the tape and tangling her legs in it, then jumped it! The rearing she’s never done in the school but in our own fields when she’s asked to walk on she plants then goes backwards then went up!

 

[HollyWoozle]

I agree with @Caol Ila 100%

 

[[167536]]

The fence is only tape and plastic posts she’ll ride beautifully for a good 40 mins but then decides she’s had enough and completely ignore the bit and marches towards the “fence” pretty much walking trough the tape and tangling her legs in it, then jumped it! The rearing she’s never done in the school but in our own fields when she’s asked to walk on she plants then goes backwards then went up!

I’ve tried to attach some videos but it seems to only allow photos on here

 

[shortstuff99]

How old is the horse and how long was she in the riding school for?

Contrary to popular opinion I find cobs are actually a lot more sensitive and sharp then people realise. My big cob man spent some time in a riding school before I got him and he had quite a few issues to sort out. I would recommend having an experienced rider come and do some schooling with her and teach your daughter some ground work too

 

[[167536]]

How old is the horse and how long was she in the riding school for?

Contrary to popular opinion I find cobs are actually a lot more sensitive and sharp then people realise. My big cob man spent some time in a riding school before I got him and he had quite a few issues to sort out. I would recommend having an experienced rider come and do some schooling with her and teach your daughter some ground work too

She’s 7, she was only in the school a year I believe! We have a trainer working with us and the improvements have been unbelievable and genuinely thought we’d cracked it but then she will randomly decide she’s had enough and then march off to the fence, she’s very strong

 

[Caol Ila]

The fence is only tape and plastic posts she’ll ride beautifully for a good 40 mins but then decides she’s had enough and completely ignore the bit and marches towards the “fence” pretty much walking trough the tape and tangling her legs in it, then jumped it! The rearing she’s never done in the school but in our own fields when she’s asked to walk on she plants then goes backwards then went up!

Okay, that's not as crazy as jumping a five bar gate.

Assuming teeth, back, saddle, legs, hooves have been checked by vets, farriers, and saddle fitters? My youngster is coming out on the other side of mega-napping phase, and the answer seems to have been a shopping trip. New girth, new saddle, new saddle pad. Some girls just need to go to the mall.

Have you had an experienced rider sit on her? Does she behave that way for them?

 

[[167536]]

Okay, that's not as crazy as jumping a five bar gate.

Assuming teeth, back, saddle, legs, hooves have been checked by vets, farriers, and saddle fitters? My youngster is coming out on the other side of mega-napping phase, and the answer seems to have been a shopping trip. New girth, new saddle, new saddle pad. Some girls just need to go to the mall.

Have you had an experienced rider sit on her? Does she behave that way for them?

well I love a shopping trip, she has a million different saddle pads, I think I will get a new saddle as it’s the one she came with and although the saddle fitter adjusted it and all was fine it does look small! We always have farrier regular and teeth were done last month! our instructor got on her and although she did try it on still she managed to stop it as she is a lot stronger than Ava is

 

[Ceifer]

As others have said - get the the pain box checked - vet checks first.

Then, you may need to address the schooling. Again, repeating what others have said. The pony is probably thinking life is great. She’s doing a tiny amount compared to what she was doing but it is different work.

You could send her away for schooling but be aware that it isn’t a permanent fix, you do need to keep on top of her and that may require regular schooling sessions from a more experienced rider.

 

[holeymoley]

My now 22year old was like this as a 3/4 year old. Yes, some people will grimace at the age of him but he was supposed to be 6, already been in a riding school and sold on to me. He would cart you out the arena at full speed and he was going rain hail or shine. Thankfully never reared or done anything silly like that though but he was adamant he wasn’t setting foot in the arena or he would be right back out. Instructor at the time was old school- again some probably disagree but he was put in a dutch gag and a flash strap and basically told me to use broote force to pull him round. You could probably do that till the cows come home too and there’s no way you would stop him.

In the end I decided to take him out of the arena all together. His age became apparent. I took him out on 20minute hacks and tried to make everything fun for him. Then turned him away. Brought him back and yes, he still remembered everything about the arena- basically he hated it. I’d heard rumours about the place that had him before me, would chase with whips etc. So decided to introduce some schooling in a field. He was much more accepting of this but then twigged he was being made to work after a while. Dropped the shoulder and legged it a few times out the field gate, again at speed. The only time he didn’t nap was out hacking. I introduced the arena and schooling bit by bit. I would come back a hack, walk through one end of the arena and out the other, that was all I asked and he got lots of praise. Then slowly built it up.

Over the years he has predominantly been a hacking horse, all rounder. Any schooling was always short and sweet, achieve what you have to a finish. Always thinking of something new and creative every time. He has been very successful in dressage believe it or not, normally scoring mid 70’s while out. I always knew he hated schooling, he would never be a horse that can go round for an hour’s lesson as to him that’s completely boring, mind numbing and he has his own ideas about things and that’s just the way he is. Plenty others would’make’ him do it but that’s not my idea of enjoyment.

Funnily enough he now puts up with my 6 year old daughter wandering around aimlessly in the arena with him and wouldn’t consider doing anything naughty with her.

I suppose long and short of it is, maybe the horse is bored with schooling, maybe she’s taking the mick and being nasty about it. I was 14/15 at the time and stuck it out. I don’t know how old your daughter is, any younger I imagine it’s not really an ideal situation and there’s bound to be an extreme confidence knock at some point. Mine was knocked a few times but somehow I stuck it out.

 

[SEL]

well I love a shopping trip, she has a million different saddle pads, I think I will get a new saddle as it’s the one she came with and although the saddle fitter adjusted it and all was fine it does look small! We always have farrier regular and teeth were done last month! our instructor got on her and although she did try it on still she managed to stop it as she is a lot stronger than Ava is

Sorry if you've already said but did she do it at the riding school? I was on livery at a RS and was forever being asked to pop on nappy ponies (I'm short). Shoulder dropping, spinning and heading for the door would usually have one of the instructors asking for a change of horse. They never, ever did the same trick with me on them.

I think you will probably need a small adult on board for a while to work out if this is pain or schooling.

I have a 13h cob and she's very independently minded! It took me a little while after she came to me to remind her that I'm not 8 years old so please remember your manners. She's now an absolute dream but I'm pretty sure if she was ridden by kids full time she'd be choosing what instruction to follow.

 

[[167536]]

My now 22year old was like this as a 3/4 year old. Yes, some people will grimace at the age of him but he was supposed to be 6, already been in a riding school and sold on to me. He would cart you out the arena at full speed and he was going rain hail or shine. Thankfully never reared or done anything silly like that though but he was adamant he wasn’t setting foot in the arena or he would be right back out. Instructor at the time was old school- again some probably disagree but he was put in a dutch gag and a flash strap and basically told me to use broote force to pull him round. You could probably do that till the cows come home too and there’s no way you would stop him.

In the end I decided to take him out of the arena all together. His age became apparent. I took him out on 20minute hacks and tried to make everything fun for him. Then turned him away. Brought him back and yes, he still remembered everything about the arena- basically he hated it. I’d heard rumours about the place that had him before me, would chase with whips etc. So decided to introduce some schooling in a field. He was much more accepting of this but then twigged he was being made to work after a while. Dropped the shoulder and legged it a few times out the field gate, again at speed. The only time he didn’t nap was out hacking. I introduced the arena and schooling bit by bit. I would come back a hack, walk through one end of the arena and out the other, that was all I asked and he got lots of praise. Then slowly built it up.

Over the years he has predominantly been a hacking horse, all rounder. Any schooling was always short and sweet, achieve what you have to a finish. Always thinking of something new and creative every time. He has been very successful in dressage believe it or not, normally scoring mid 70’s while out. I always knew he hated schooling, he would never be a horse that can go round for an hour’s lesson as to him that’s completely boring, mind numbing and he has his own ideas about things and that’s just the way he is. Plenty others would’make’ him do it but that’s not my idea of enjoyment.

Funnily enough he now puts up with my 6 year old daughter wandering around aimlessly in the arena with him and wouldn’t consider doing anything naughty with her.

I suppose long and short of it is, maybe the horse is bored with schooling, maybe she’s taking the mick and being nasty about it. I was 14/15 at the time and stuck it out. I don’t know how old your daughter is, any younger I imagine it’s not really an ideal situation and there’s bound to be an extreme confidence knock at some point. Mine was knocked a few times but somehow I stuck it out.

 

[[167536]]

Yes so we went on a hack today because I wanted to break it up a bit for her and our instructor has said maybe we just do half hr of schooling instead of a whole hour so that we don’t make her too sour to sch! Ava is 12 and really is the only person who rides her and she definitely knows that she can get away with it

 

[[167536]]

Sorry if you've already said but did she do it at the riding school? I was on livery at a RS and was forever being asked to pop on nappy ponies (I'm short). Shoulder dropping, spinning and heading for the door would usually have one of the instructors asking for a change of horse. They never, ever did the same trick with me on them.

I think you will probably need a small adult on board for a while to work out if this is pain or schooling.

I have a 13h cob and she's very independently minded! It took me a little while after she came to me to remind her that I'm not 8 years old so please remember your manners. She's now an absolute dream but I'm pretty sure if she was ridden by kids full time she'd be choosing what instruction to follow.

Well I don’t know they made out that she never did anything nappy with them but literally the day we got her she napped to the gate so I find it hard to believe!

 

[[167536]]

Sorry if you've already said but did she do it at the riding school? I was on livery at a RS and was forever being asked to pop on nappy ponies (I'm short). Shoulder dropping, spinning and heading for the door would usually have one of the instructors asking for a change of horse. They never, ever did the same trick with me on them.

I think you will probably need a small adult on board for a while to work out if this is pain or schooling.

I have a 13h cob and she's very independently minded! It took me a little while after she came to me to remind her that I'm not 8 years old so please remember your manners. She's now an absolute dream but I'm pretty sure if she was ridden by kids full time she'd be choosing what instruction to follow.

She drops her shoulder and heads straight to the fence

 

[HopOnTrot]

well I love a shopping trip, she has a million different saddle pads, I think I will get a new saddle as it’s the one she came with and although the saddle fitter adjusted it and all was fine it does look small! We always have farrier regular and teeth were done last month! our instructor got on her and although she did try it on still she managed to stop it as she is a lot stronger than Ava is

What did the vet look at? My mare with KS was much better for my instructor but she still had KS.

 

[scats]

Napping is very difficult to totally eradicate. Ive dealt with a lot of nappers (oddly my speciality) and although most can be schooled through it, Id say that most will always defer back to it as default with a weak rider or if pushed too hard in the wrong way.
I currently have a rearer-napper. 95% of the time now she is fine, but if she does start, i have to be very careful how I deal with it or she’ll go up. Shes not reared now for nearly 2 years, but its in there and I am switched on to how to deal with the napping but avoid the dangerous behaviour.

Would i have that type of pony for a child? Not a chance.

 

[AmyMay]

The minute something goes vertical, that’s it. No child of mine would ever get on it again. So unless there’s something seriously wrong I’d say Chuck it in the field for pony cuddles only.

 

[pistolpete]

Pony is very clear she’s not happy. For whatever reason. I’d be looking into a behaviourist consultation if vet checks definitely clear. Good luck.