Extreme Napping

[#jackofallmasterofnone]

Hope reading the timeline right - pony is 7 now you have a year so bought when 6 was in riding school for a year so they got her at 5. Sounds like possibly a gap in the ponies early education. You are worried if you send her for schooling the problem will resurface when she returns but this is not necessarily the case as it’s could be a pony who missed out on some steps in her education and has just learned to use evasion tactics. Other option could be to have a competent rider come and ride once a week and get going on all the young horse pieces she may have missed. I also wonder if maybe you need to look at creating more winning situations - if the pony works well for 40 minutes then decides is finished perhaps instead of trying to aim for 60 minutes you work for 35 and finish then build up from there little by little. The field napping really sounds like something a stronger more confident rider may need to work on with the pony.

 

[Nari]

I'll start by saying I wouldn't allow a child to ride her, at least not how she is now.

If you want to keep her I'd send her to a good pro - ask around, get recommendations, visit and look closely at the rider and horses - for reschooling and once they feel she's safe pay for your daughter to have lessons with them so May has consistency. Your daughter may have to change her style and toughen up, but if she wants a chance of keeping her she has to accept that. If the pro says she's unsuitable then be guided by that and either sell on or keep as a pet, but please don't let your daughter carry on putting herself at risk.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Maybe it’s just me but I find it quite telling that the pony was only used for a year at the school before they sold her on. Especially at that age?
If it’s definitely nothing pain related, I’d send away for schooling. It’s likely that she was backed and then put straight into the school so hasn’t learnt how to be ridden outside of a riding school environment. You’d probably need to keep on top of the schooling by getting somebody in every week or two for a session. Also would cut the feed.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Also, did she do much hacking or work outside of an arena when she was at the school?

 

[Backtoblack]

This pony is not suitable for your child. I would be putting this pony back into the riding school environment at full working livery and your daughter can ride it in the lesson at the riding school, I would also be looking for a genuine angel of a first pony for your daughter to ride if you want her to have her own pony or just keep her riding at the riding school for a couple more years at least. If you bought the pony from a reputable BHS riding school then I'd be discussing the situation with the r s owner as it is clearly unsuitable for a novice 7 year old child.

 

[Gloi]

For anybody thinking of buying from a riding school, unless the place is shutting down they rarely sell their good ponies because they are like gold dust. They get rid of the problem ones.

 

[[167536]]

For anybody thinking of buying from a riding school, unless the place is shutting down they rarely sell their good ponies because they are like gold dust. They get rid of the problem ones.

They had to relocate they sold a lot of their ponies may was one of many that were sold on

 

[[167536]]

Also, did she do much hacking or work outside of an arena when she was at the school?

Yeah she did and she does with us she loves hacking, she’s great in so many other ways

 

[[167536]]

Hope reading the timeline right - pony is 7 now you have a year so bought when 6 was in riding school for a year so they got her at 5. Sounds like possibly a gap in the ponies early education. You are worried if you send her for schooling the problem will resurface when she returns but this is not necessarily the case as it’s could be a pony who missed out on some steps in her education and has just learned to use evasion tactics. Other option could be to have a competent rider come and ride once a week and get going on all the young horse pieces she may have missed. I also wonder if maybe you need to look at creating more winning situations - if the pony works well for 40 minutes then decides is finished perhaps instead of trying to aim for 60 minutes you work for 35 and finish then build up from there little by little. The field napping really sounds like something a stronger more confident rider may need to work on with the pony.

Sorry no the pony is 8 as we bought her at 7, our instructor has actually said well just do more schooling but less time so cut it in half

 

[Patterdale]

Sell it and get a good one that your daughter will enjoy. She will miss this one for about 5 minutes then totally forget about it when she’s having actual fun on a pony that doesn’t want to murder her.

 

[southerncomfort]

Assuming she has a clean bill of health, saddle fits etc....

If she's good out hacking, I'd be tempted to knock the schooling on the head.

Don't take her in the school more than once a week and only do fun things like mounted games, agility obstacles etc.

She could just be bored stupid of schooling. Boredom breeds undesirable behaviour in these little cobs.

If the behaviour doesn't improve then I'd be selling her on. No child of mine would have been allowed to sit on a pony that reared.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Once you have ruled out any pain find a small adult instructor to school the pony a few times a week and then they can work with your daughter.

Maybe ask your current instructor if she knows of anyone that could school her if she is too big to ride her.

 

[#jackofallmasterofnone]

Sorry no the pony is 8 as we bought her at 7, our instructor has actually said well just do more schooling but less time so cut it in half

Still a young enough pony was in riding school work at 6. Your instructors advice is good I think. Set up for success positive endings a good 30 mins and finishing on a good note for your child and the pony. Defo enlist a good rider to work on the education parts as it’s too much for a novice child to do especially as the pony seems to be getting more creative in their evasions. A good rider with young horse experience will know when to push and when to back off and how to work around any issues that arise. They will also be able to give you an honest opinion on the pony and the likelihood of her being suitable for a child over time.

 

[Upthecreek]

Yes so we went on a hack today because I wanted to break it up a bit for her and our instructor has said maybe we just do half hr of schooling instead of a whole hour so that we don’t make her too sour to sch! Ava is 12 and really is the only person who rides her and she definitely knows that she can get away with it

I don’t know anybody (including professionals) that school horses or ponies for an hour. I’m not surprised the pony is getting fed up. If the pony is behaving perfectly up to 40 minutes (which is still too long), call it a day at 30 minutes. Schooling is physically and mentally tiring for horses.

I would not be putting a 12 year old on a pony that has vertically reared. It’s extremely dangerous and if the pony goes over backwards your daughter will be crushed. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but your daughter’s safety should outweigh how much she loves the pony.

 

[TheMule]

I don’t know anybody (including professionals) that school horses or ponies for an hour. I’m not surprised the pony is getting fed up. If the pony is behaving perfectly up to 40 minutes (which is still too long), call it a day at 30 minutes. Schooling is physically and mentally tiring for horses.

I would not be putting a 12 year old on a pony that has vertically reared. It’s extremely dangerous and if the pony goes over backwards your daughter will be crushed. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but your daughter’s safety should outweigh how much she loves the pony.

This, absolutely.

 

[Wishfilly]

I do think she sounds unhappy, whether that's pain related or because she's not confident being ridden on her own. I think even if the school fence is low, going and jumping something the rider has not pointed her at is still relatively extreme behaviour. And obviously rearing up vertically is very serious.

I would definitely be trying to find out what's going on- if all the basic checks have come up with nothing, I would definitely be getting a small adult to ride and see what happens. Obviously before anyone else rides this pony you MUST give full disclosure of the behaviour she's shown so far.

I agree that if I had a 12yo, there is no way they'd be getting back on a pony that's reared vertically- in a way, it doesn't matter why. You now know that's a reaction she can have when stressed/in pain, and you can't guarantee that it won't happen again. It's unfortunately very possible for even a relatively lightweight rider to unbalance a rearing horse, or just for a young horse to lose their balance and go back over. This really can cause life changing injuries including spinal and pelvis fractures. If that happened to your daughter, would you forgive yourself?

 

[misst]

If she isn't in pain I would sell on as a small fun hack for someone older. There are plenty of people (older than your daughter) who would be happy to have a pony that just hacked and maybe did fun rides etc.

An hour of schooling?! That's an awful lot for the pony and my daughter would not have schooled her pony for an hour if she was told to! She would have been bored too after 20 minutes! When my daughter had had enough her riding became sloppy! Kids need to have fun. Our ex riding school pony was a napper when we got her out of the RS. She was fine in hard work, living out on nothing but grass and hay with the RS but not when fit, fed, partially stabled and out of a group situation. It took a year for my daughter to get to grips with the napping but she never ever reared. A dirty stop, nap for the gate and shoulder drop - yes, mad bucking or rearing no! I had to learn not to feed the pony rocket fuel and stick to hay and grass with some vits and minerals unless she was going to PC camp. She was an amazing little madam who did us proud until the day she died at 27, but she wasn't easy, ever!

I feel sorry for your daughter but a year down the line things are getting worse and the pony is obviously not fit for what she needs. My honest guess is the pony is uncomfortable but if it is learned behaviour it is now ingrained. I would worry about an instructor who thinks 40 minutes schooling for a difficult pony is ok and who has not pointed out how very dangerous this rearing is. (Apologies if she has).

 

[Pinkvboots]

I don’t know anybody (including professionals) that school horses or ponies for an hour. I’m not surprised the pony is getting fed up. If the pony is behaving perfectly up to 40 minutes (which is still too long), call it a day at 30 minutes. Schooling is physically and mentally tiring for horses.

I would not be putting a 12 year old on a pony that has vertically reared. It’s extremely dangerous and if the pony goes over backwards your daughter will be crushed. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but your daughter’s safety should outweigh how much she loves the pony.

I think an hours schooling is too much for any horse sometimes a short hack then 10 15 minutes schooling afterwards is so much more productive, I find the horse is warmed up and in a much better frame of mind I have done this for years and got much better results.

 

[Jenko109]

Agree with others.

IMO an hours lesson is only okay when it is in a group, so there are plenty of breaks.

As a relatively confident adult, I would not personally get back on something that had reared up vertically. Nor would I expect anyone else to. I especially would not be allowing a child onboard.

 

[Nudibranch]

What Upthecreek said. An hour is too much. Especially for cobs, who are not built for it. I'm not sure why people who enjoy schooling a lot buy cobs tbh, and that's not a dig at cobs - I have a Dales so not a million miles off. But their conformation is often ill suited and their minds too busy. I'd stop schooling altogether for a while and just hack. Once she has forgotten some of her dislike build it up again but please limit it to 30 mins max. Or school a bit then hack (or vice versa).

Never mind the horse, I'd be ploughing through the fence after an hour too.

 

[I'm Dun]

PSSM type 1 test asap to rule that in or out before you get the vet out. And for gods sake don't let your child back on until the problem is found. A friend is in a wheelchair for the rest of her life as a pony reared, slipped and went over backwards, it wasn't even vertical. No pony is worth a life in a wheelchair or worse.

 

[Gloi]

When I was at school a girl a similar age had a pony "silver" a Connie who reared and she laughed. One day he went over with her, the cork hats we had in those days didn't help and she was badly brain damaged. I don't think she ever recovered, only ever saw her in a wheelchair after that and she couldn't speak. It certainly scared the rest of us with ponies at the time.

 

[catembi]

And PSSM type 2/MIM test. If they just 'suddenly' have enough & plant/nap etc, sometimes it means that their muscles have run out of resources & are getting uncomfortable. I have had a depressing number of type 2s and the 'behaviour' kicks in at about the 25 minute/half hour point. The total opposite to a 'normal' sharp horse where 20 mins' lungeing will take the tickle out of their feet. The type 2 can very suddenly have enough and explode just after this point.

 

[ycbm]

Sorry Catembi but I've got to point out that I believe it is still the case that the type 2 test has still, after a number of years, not successfully been peer reviewed and the recommendation to vets is still that they should not rely on it as a diagnostic tool.
.

 

[nutjob]

I believe it is still the case that the type 2 test has still, after a number of years, not successfully been peer reviewed and the recommendation to vets is still that they should not rely on it as a diagnostic tool.

The only other group who tried to validate this test failed to do so. I was concerned at one stage that my wobbler might have a muscle myopathy based on some of his behaviour and discussed it with my vet. She completely rubbished the test and said a biopsy was the way to go. In the event I didn't go down this route as it was clear from the neurological tests what his problem was. I did join the pssm fb page where the admins are very invested in the genetic testing and anyone questioning it's validity is rubbished and booted so it appears that everyone (except the veterinary profession) believes in the test. There is a lot of useful info on management available there but woe betide anyone mentioning biopsy as a better option!!!

 

[I'm Dun]

Muscle biopsy isnt 100% either sadly and as its quite invasive most people don't recommend it. You will find that some PSSM groups are awful, but the MFM & PSSM Awareness group is pretty good. There is no simple answer for type 2. There are horses with the genes that arent not symptomatic, and horses without them that are. And there's no cure or even an agreed treatment so its a bit of a crap shoot if you are looking at type 2 sadly.

 

[Upthecreek]

Why has OP’s username changed to numbers?

 

[Jenko109]

Why has OP’s username changed to numbers?

They do not want to accept that this pony is dangerous and would instead delete their account and carry on allowing their daughter to ride it until she is disabled or dead.