Falling on hard times - should the yard help you out?

I wouldn't expect my YO to change charges, however, I have known her to bring back to 'bare bones' for a livery she has had for some years.

At the end of the day she is in business.
 
I don't think anyone could expect the YO to do anything to help or to make any allowances. Having said that we are all human and if I were the YO I would do anythng I could reasonably do to help, short of putting my own position at risk. Maybe give the a reduced rate for DIY livery or if they help around the yard? I'm sure something could be worked out to suit both parties, even if it is just for the short term.
 
If you do it for one everyone will expect it. You need to remember this is you buisness and I wouldn't put myself out of pocket. Depending on the situation the most I would do is give them longer to pay but that would only be if they had a job lined up.
 
It is a difficult one. I know everyone at my local shop, but would they give me my shopping for free just because I know them...?

I would have a serious chat with the livery. Say you really like them as a livery and would like to help, but you absolutely need an income from the stable, so will have to advertise it and the horse will have to go on grass livery... Its nice to help out if you can, but you need to keep your business going, and what if another livery lost their job the next week...

If I was about to lose my job etc, I would KNOW that I would have to move off full livery - and would have to look for a cheaper solution, a sharer (which is not always dependable as a way to finance a horse, or fair), or consider loaning or selling the horse.. I would be racking my brains for the best way to try and solve the problem, and while I would probably accept your offer of grass livery as a stop gap, I wouldn't expect it for long if it made things awkward for you.

On the flip side, these lovely liveries are the ones that would help you out if you were injured or something until you found cover...etc.

Very difficult for you, I don't envy you.x
 
Thanks, everyone. She has always helped out whenever she can, both myself and other liveries. She lives such a long way away that it is costing her a fortune in diesel and so either working for me or DIY would be difficult. It would be awful if she had to sell either of her horses. To be honest, the best thing she could do financially, if she were to keep the horses, would be to find a field to rent locally to her, but she wants them to stay here. The best I can do is to offer grass livery here but to do them myself most days and not charge her extra for this. But I would have to let her stables go otherwise I would lose so much money.

I had a similar situation around 3 years ago when a livery's husband lost his highly paid job. We just said we would allow them up to six months to pay any owed livery. Luckily, he received a huge pay off and so they actually ended up giving us 6 months' livery up front! Then he got a new job, so all was well.
 
Honey08 said:
It is a difficult one. I know everyone at my local shop, but would they give me my shopping for free just because I know them...?

I would have a serious chat with the livery. Say you really like them as a livery and would like to help, but you absolutely need an income from the stable, so will have to advertise it and the horse will have to go on grass livery... Its nice to help out if you can, but you need to keep your business going, and what if another livery lost their job the next week...

If I was about to lose my job etc, I would KNOW that I would have to move off full livery - and would have to look for a cheaper solution, a sharer (which is not always dependable as a way to finance a horse, or fair), or consider loaning or selling the horse.. I would be racking my brains for the best way to try and solve the problem, and while I would probably accept your offer of grass livery as a stop gap, I wouldn't expect it for long if it made things awkward for you.

On the flip side, these lovely liveries are the ones that would help you out if you were injured or something until you found cover...etc.

Very difficult for you, I don't envy you.x
Click to expand...

Ditto this.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do. x
 
LittleWildOne said:
alma :)
It's not so much a charitable mindset, but a private matter between the YO and the livery concerned.
If other people get humpty about someone suffering from extreme hardship, then that's THEIR problem ;).
Anyway, I'm off now to go and ride my 4yo as someone is coming to view her tomorrow, which is part of my agreement with my YO to help to resolve things :).
Click to expand...

I really hope you get things sorted LWO. It is heartbreaking to have to sell animals to get out of a hole. I am pleased your YO is being so understanding. :)
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks, everyone. She has always helped out whenever she can, both myself and other liveries. She lives such a long way away that it is costing her a fortune in diesel and so either working for me or DIY would be difficult. It would be awful if she had to sell either of her horses. To be honest, the best thing she could do financially, if she were to keep the horses, would be to find a field to rent locally to her, but she wants them to stay here. The best I can do is to offer grass livery here but to do them myself most days and not charge her extra for this. But I would have to let her stables go otherwise I would lose so much money.

I had a similar situation around 3 years ago when a livery's husband lost his highly paid job. We just said we would allow them up to six months to pay any owed livery. Luckily, he received a huge pay off and so they actually ended up giving us 6 months' livery up front! Then he got a new job, so all was well.
Click to expand...

Aside from what you SHOULD do, you sound like a really lovely YO and it's nice to know there are a few of you about :)
 
It sounds like you are doing all you can reasonably do and are being very fair. I can't see how any livery could resent another receiving a helping hand during a hard time. I'd rather pay fully than struggle every day. It is not a situation to envy. I have my own field now, but when I was on a yard there was a livery there who worked at the yard to trim her bill due to her circumstances and I don't think anyone took a dislike to it. I hope your livery's fortune soon takes a turn for the better.
 
I think Alma's case is different - and unfortunate - and I can quite see why the other liveries were annoyed.

I have a tiny yard (doesn't really justify the name) of 4 horses absolute max and it's grass livery +. I have been doing it for 20 years or so and have been very, very lucky with my liveries, who have all become family friends.

One of my liveries had a really tough time last year with an out-of-work-husband. I told her that there was no way I was going to turn her horse out on the road (a rather high maintenance TB) and that I would keep a running total of rent + feed bills so long as she would pay the farrier, and that she could pay me as and when she could. This lasted some months; then her husband was re-employed, and bit by bit she has paid me in full.

It is different though if you have a big yard - you might get 5 or 6 equally deserving people all on hard times at once!!
 
I think if a YO did the things you mentioned then the livery is very lucky! Afterall the livery is a business and needs the money to keep going themselves. Would be lovely if they could do that but certainly wouldn't expect it. The person should be looking at making the horse more affordable for them, if they can't manage then the horse has to go, harsh but many people out there would love a horse but don't have them because they can't afford it, and many do have to end up selling as a result of divorce and hard times etc.

Losing your horse during what is a difficult time any way would be horrendous and devastating so it would certainly be very kind if a livery yard owner helped particularly if the person in trouble appreciated it but in no way should it be expected.

Livery yard owners have got themselves in to trouble before with things like this and ended up with people leaving owing months of livery.

Whatever is decided it should be none of the other liveries business, hopefully they wouldn't have an issue if someone is getting a helping hand during difficult times I certainly wouldn't, it's between the YO and livery what goes on. If anything they should be grateful to know they have an understanding sympathetic YO!!
 
I would expect nothing.
The livery yard is a business.

Yes it would be nice to get free or reduced livery and maybe giving the customer longer to pay but they don't have to help at all.

Its not personal its business.
 
Rose Folly said:
I think Alma's case is different - and unfortunate - and I can quite see why the other liveries were annoyed.

I have a tiny yard (doesn't really justify the name) of 4 horses absolute max and it's grass livery +. I have been doing it for 20 years or so and have been very, very lucky with my liveries, who have all become family friends.

One of my liveries had a really tough time last year with an out-of-work-husband. I told her that there was no way I was going to turn her horse out on the road (a rather high maintenance TB) and that I would keep a running total of rent + feed bills so long as she would pay the farrier, and that she could pay me as and when she could. This lasted some months; then her husband was re-employed, and bit by bit she has paid me in full.

It is different though if you have a big yard - you might get 5 or 6 equally deserving people all on hard times at once!!
Click to expand...

It can work the other way though, on occasions. A man up the road does DIY livery. He is not horsey, they just pay for the field and stables. There are three stables. One lady's husband walked out on her, leaving her with a mess. The man with the stables let her waive her livery for a few months until she got back on her feet. Only she never made any effort at all. She had new cars, rugs, you name it, and still never paid him a bean. He used to grumble about it to my dad (his mate) a lot, but didn't want to throw her off as he thought the horses would suffer. Her older horse died, which everyone thought would make things easier, but no, she announces that she has seen a warmblood yearling that she is going to buy to bring on for her daughter! The stable owner told her she could pay him the £2k in livery she owed him if she could afford a flash yearling and she flounced off with her nose in the air, never paid him, bought the yearling and now keeps them in an acre of grass and no stables. It turns out she owed another lady nearby several hundred which she had borrowed to buy hay - she never saw a penny either. Obviously this yard owner was far too soft - I used to tell him that he should chase her, but he never did. But my point is, you sometimes think you know and trust people, but you don't really...
 
As a yard owner, I'm afraid I would never have a full or part livery in that wasn't paying, whatever the reason. It's hard enough to make a living from this business as it is without doing work for nothing. I would (and have in the past) however, change the livery the horse was on if that suited the owner. I had a part livery who's owner went through a really messy divorce and money went from being no problem at all to being very tight for a while. We roughed him off and he went out on grass livery until she could afford to pay part livery prices again.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a yard owner to pay for your horses if you can no longer afford to. You wouldn't expect someone to service your car for free just because you're struggling with money.
 
If I had fallen on hard times and had my horse with you I would be working very hard to pay my way, mucking out other liveries for you, poo picking, tack cleaning etc.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks, everyone. She has always helped out whenever she can, both myself and other liveries. She lives such a long way away that it is costing her a fortune in diesel and so either working for me or DIY would be difficult. It would be awful if she had to sell either of her horses. To be honest, the best thing she could do financially, if she were to keep the horses, would be to find a field to rent locally to her, but she wants them to stay here. The best I can do is to offer grass livery here but to do them myself most days and not charge her extra for this. But I would have to let her stables go otherwise I would lose so much money.
Click to expand...
Oh, she wants, does she?

lol. :rolleyes:
 
I wouldn't expect anything from the yard owner. I'd be eternally grateful if I got the offer of short term help, eg grass diy in exchange for work etc.
In the ops case though not wanting grass livery or to move is just taking advantage. If diesel is preventing grass diy or daily visits is there something else she could do? Such as two full days a week doing something you might otherwise have to pay for? Eg ragwort, fence repairs, painting your house etc?
When I swopped jobs a few years ago I was temporarily short, going from weekly pay to monthly. Yo knows I'm on a tight budget & was happy for me to be a month late. However even though I knew I could pay, I still spent a saturday they were out painting the chicken house & power washing their garden patio, two jobs I know they had been trying to get round to as I felt it was only fair to show my gratitude.
 
If this happened to me I would expect to sell or loan my horse/s. Although I would be very grateful for a grace period until horse sold or was loaned, maybe if there was a possibility of going on grass livery for a while? No way would I do a moonlight flit - we have had a few of those at my yard, and it disgusts me how anyone could do that.

As a YO if in this position, I would try to help, either by putting horse on DIY or grass, or helping to find a loaner.sharer, especially for a long standing client.
 
niamh said:
Oh, she wants, does she?

lol. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

meaning what exactly?:confused:

Wagtail i think it's very kind of you to try and accomodate your livery during hard times, so many people would say that horses are a luxury and should be the first thing to go but in reality it's never that straightforward. Sometimes they are the one thing that keeps you going through those rough times!
just a thought on the stable idea though, if you rent out the stables to cover your shortfall will you have enough grazing for the 2 extra grass liveries?, and what will happen if the livery with problems gets sorted and wants to go back to full livery, will you then not have enough stables and end up causing yourself a bigger dilemma:confused:
 
Ibblebibble said:
meaning what exactly?:confused:

Wagtail i think it's very kind of you to try and accomodate your livery during hard times, so many people would say that horses are a luxury and should be the first thing to go but in reality it's never that straightforward. Sometimes they are the one thing that keeps you going through those rough times!
just a thought on the stable idea though, if you rent out the stables to cover your shortfall will you have enough grazing for the 2 extra grass liveries?, and what will happen if the livery with problems gets sorted and wants to go back to full livery, will you then not have enough stables and end up causing yourself a bigger dilemma:confused:
Click to expand...

I do have enough space, but it is clay soil and there is not enough grass to sustain them 24/7 through the winter. They would need supplementary feeding with haylage. It would certainly cause me a problem in that I do not want more than 7 - 8 horses on the yard as I do all the work myself. I had thought of the problem of her wanting her stables back. I wouldn't kick anyone off to accommodate her. It would need to be a permanent arrangement unless someone left. Not ideal, at all.
 
I would be tempted to tell her she can have a month or two of grass livery while she tries to sort out another job, but then you are sorry but she will have to look for cheaper livery elsewhere as you wil have to fill the space. Tell her you will help her look etc.
 
difficult situation :( i honestly don't know what i would do in your situation, i would want to help but it's knowing how to do it without causing yourself unnecessary headaches!
 
Wagtail said:
I really hope you get things sorted LWO. It is heartbreaking to have to sell animals to get out of a hole. I am pleased your YO is being so understanding. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you Wagtail.
I want to get my circumstances sorted out as soon as possible (like - yesterday !). Re - horses being a luxury and being the first thing to go - I've had my 4yo advertised for sale, but didn't get one single enquiry about her. She was unbroken. So, it isn't THAT straightforward.
I have now started to back her. Have ridden her twice now and she is an absolute star ! I am really looking forward to riding her again tomorrow, in front of a potential buyer !
Okay, this will only be her 3rd time ridden, BUT, she is showing great promise even at such an early stage. Today for example, I felt her step under with her hind leg and bend around MY leg while I was riding turns and corners !
On a soft contact, she is actively seeking the bit and rides forward from my leg into the soft contact. This is after JUST 2 DAYS !
My 2 are already on grass livery, so other than tethering them on a grass verge there is nowhere I can make savings there.
My other girl is only a 3yo New Forest, but for personal reasons, I CAN NOT sell her. I am not willing to discuss my reasons on here.
My YO doesn't want to lose me from her yard. She doesn't want my section D (the 4yo) to go either, but I have no choice so she will be sold.
Tell you what though, because of the way my YO is supporting me through this, (and no, I'm not getting free livery. I owe her and it WILL be paid), you can be bloomin sure that I will ALWAYS be there for her in the event of any accident or emergency.
Wagtail, you come across as being the same kind of person as my YO is. You (and my YO) have my utmost respect. Thankyou !
 
Thats a hard call to make I am sure. However, remember you are doing this as a business though and to make money yourself. As we know, sometimes in business you have to make hard decisions.

Would not like to be in your shoes though, but business is business.
 
I don't see why the grass livery at your yard has to be a permanent arrangement OP. If you rent her stable before she gets another job, then when she gets one she has to leave, if you don't want to over graze the land. You'd still have helped her during a tough time, but would not be putting yourself out long term this way. I'm inclined to think she's pushing her luck a bit anyway, probably hoping you'll help because she's been helpful to you in the past, which is fair enough. Usually though, people know months in advance if they're being made redundant. In my mind, as soon as you know is the time to be moving your horse to basic livery on a yard close to home. So that the money you have left in the bank/the remaining few months wages, last as long as possible and you're not left in a situation of work ending on a Friday and being unable to pay your full livery bill on the Saturday.
 
From a purely business point of view if you have a good loyal customer it can be a good idea to work with them to help find a mutually acceptable solution if they have some short term difficulties. This needs to be monitored closely and care should be taken to protect the financial side of your business - so for instance in your case the grass livery offer is a good idea because it helps her out but you won't suffer too much. Business is not all about the money you earn today, sometimes it is worth showing some flexibility with certain customers within reason as when their personal situation improves you know you will continue yo have a very loyal client. Just because you do it for one livery does not mean you should be expected to do it for all - each case should be judged on merit and is nobody else's business so the arrangement is probably best kept confidential!
 
I have been helped out by a yard owner who I now class as a friend. Little things like being given a few bags of shavings or her turning a blind eye when my rent was late. It only happened a few times and was sorted after that. Always meant a lot to me.
However I don't feel there's an onus or any responsibility on a YO to do this, but if you can do it, it's a nice thing to do for a genuine person. Within reason :)
 
It is not the YO's responsibility at all and I'd advise don't go there in terms of free/reduced livery.

If however you need some work done around the place then I'd offer £X per hour to be taken off the livery bill.

At the end of the day, if they have no money then they should be expecting to keep a horse on full livery. They should be looking to move the horse to grass DIY.
 
Clearly you are not obliged to do anything BUT I know how hard you work. If you like the person then maybe you could, in the short term, offer them slightly better terms if they work on the yard?

After all, if your income is going to be reduced maybe you could get the odd lie in in exchange?
 
She has advised me she has five months' redundancy money and so does not want to change anything right now. If she is still in this situation in five months' time, she will consider moving the horses onto grass livery here, or moving elsewhere. I am going to allow her a discount on the livery as she will muck out her own horses on the days she can get here. I will also 'overlook' any extras I would normally charge. She has a heart of gold and will help anyone out in need. She is often taken advantage of because of this (not by me!). I think she deserves something back in return for her good will to others. Obviously, it will mean I take a bit of a financial loss, but not a devastating one.

Thanks, everyone for your kinds words and suggestions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top