Family Protection Dogs

[Moobli]

OK so he's not the type of temperament that should be trained as a protection dog but it would concern me that the owners of these dogs wouldn't reinforce or keep up the training and the dog would end up ruined and dangerous.

Protection trained dogs have been around for a good few years and I haven’t seen one report about them biting an innocent person, so I don’t see them as a big threat, although certainly agree that anyone wanting such a dog should be prepared to continue their high level of training and obedience and believe the more reputable trainers/sellers of these dogs do offer regular refresher training.

 

[Moobli]

Also I meant to add that only social, balanced dogs with impeccable temperament should be considered for training as protection dogs.

 

[skinnydipper]

What worries me about these dogs is the fact that their trainers are not their handlers. IME 90% of dog training involves training the owner rather than the dog - these dogs, who have been trained to attack so potentially very dangerous could be in a household with inexperienced owners - not a safe situation.
.

This was something that had occurred to me also.

The people on this forum who have dogs trained in bite work are experienced in dog training, handling, behaviour, body language and so on.

I meet people who have owned dogs their whole lives and still haven't a clue about dogs and dog behaviour and training (sad but true).

The people buying these dogs may have never even owned a dog.

I find that troubling.

Edit. I am referring specifically to the dogs sold for personal protection.

 

[npage123]

Are there any truth behind it that a gaggle of geese make better 'guard dogs' than dogs? Obviously they are a completely different kettle of fish than dogs as they're not really pets that would form a bond with the owner (or would they?), in the same way that dogs would. I think they'll just make a lot of noise and alert the home-owner that someone has entered his property. I've never owned geese so maybe someone who has some can enlighten me?

I have once met a massive and absolutely stunning Rottweiler, clearly doing his job and on patrol with his handler (in security uniform) on evening. It was a huge showground, set up to accommodate different exhibitions, which was well protected with probably a few dogs and handlers making their rounds. One of the handlers walked quite close past me and I asked him if it would be possible for me to say hi to his gorgeous dog or would he prefer it if I kept my distance. He said no problem, gave the dog a command to sit and I could see the dog was immediately more relaxed, less alert, didn't have that 'quite look' about him. The Rottie enjoyed being stroked and being made a fuss off. I asked the security guard if he's ever had someone attack him whilst his dog was with him. He said 'No, because he'll rip their arms off...' And off they went, dog neatly beside the guard and they were back on the job, constantly scanning the boundary fencing.

ETA: The above happened in South Africa, with (unfortunately a much higher crime rate) and a greater need for property and/or personal protection.

 

[rabatsa]

There is nearly always an advert in places round here wanting young dogs to take on for protection work. They nearly always start with "Is your dog too much for you to handle?"

 

[Tinkerbee]

Are there any truth behind it that a gaggle of geese make better 'guard dogs' than dogs? Obviously they are a completely different kettle of fish than dogs as they're not really pets that would form a bond with the owner (or would they?), in the same way that dogs would. I think they'll just make a lot of noise and alert the home-owner that someone has entered his property. I've never owned geese so maybe someone who has some can enlighten me?

They do make a lot of noise and we had a particularly cantankerous gander that everyone was terrified of, always took a stick out if you needed to get past him, recieved many a bruise/bloody leg from him so could be a good deterrent. However, they are surely closed away at night, so of limited use for night time deterrence!

 

[CorvusCorax]

There is nearly always an advert in places round here wanting young dogs to take on for protection work. They nearly always start with "Is your dog too much for you to handle?"

That'll probably make someone a nice mark-up....

 

[skinnydipper]

There is nearly always an advert in places round here wanting young dogs to take on for protection work. They nearly always start with "Is your dog too much for you to handle?"

Frightening, isn't it, that these dogs could eventually end up in the hands of a person who isn't buying a dog because they are passionate about dogs but really just wants a piece of equipment?

I have great admiration for those who train and compete at the highest level in their chosen discipline (IPO/Schutzhund, Working Trials) but the person buying a ready trained PPD is unlikely to have the same knowledge, dedication and skill.

 

[Clodagh]

Frightening, isn't it, that these dogs could eventually end up in the hands of a person who isn't buying a dog because they are passionate about dogs but really just wants a piece of equipment?

I have great admiration for those who train and compete at the highest level in their chosen discipline (IPO/Schutzhund, Working Trials) but the person buying a ready trained PPD is unlikely to have the same knowledge, dedication and skill.

I so agree with this. Ready trained gundogs are very common and IMO you never see one work for its new owner as well as it did its trainer. On a tiny, novice scale, I have trained ours and they work better for me than my OH, although happily work for him too. (Only if I am not around in the case of yellow girl).

 

[Clodagh]

That'll probably make someone a nice mark-up....

And is a truly scary thought!

 

[Clodagh]

But knives and guns lie inanimately in a drawer, and hopefully sharp knives and all guns are securely locked away. Having a protection dog running round your 3 year olds birthday party would be like leaving a loaded shotgun in the room - yes, so the safety is on, but that is easily removed.

The birthday party was an exaggeration, I felt it was wrong to say a dog was no more dangerous than a knife or a gun.

 

[{97702}]

I agree completely that no dog should ever be used as a status symbol!!

I was just reviewing this thread as I don’t have much to do at the moment and realised I missed this reply.... does that mean it is OK for dogs to be used as fighting dogs then?!!!!!

 

[kimberleigh]

I was just reviewing this thread as I don’t have much to do at the moment and realised I missed this reply.... does that mean it is OK for dogs to be used as fighting dogs then?!!!!!

Where did I say that?! 😮

I dont think fighting dogs are relevant to this post though which is why I left that part out - whereas using a dog as a status symbol is very definitely related to 'family protection dogs', which is what the thread was about.

It would be common for someone using the guise of "protection" dog to simply want a penis extension (male or female!) But not if they wanted a dog for fighting purposes - whole different debate

 

[{97702}]

Where did I say that?! 😮

I dont think fighting dogs are relevant to this post though which is why I left that part out - whereas using a dog as a status symbol is very definitely related to 'family protection dogs', which is what the thread was about.

It would be common for someone using the guise of "protection" dog to simply want a penis extension (male or female!) But not if they wanted a dog for fighting purposes - whole different debate

Your omission of some aspects of my original comment was what prompted the question, so it was what you didn’t say rather than what you said which startled me somewhat

Incidentally I’m not sure why there would be any ‘“debate” about fighting dogs? Surely anyone in their right mind finds dog fighting abhorrent, disgusting and cruel?

It is actually quite common for threads to deviate from the original post on the forum, it’s what makes life so interesting on here 😂

 

[kimberleigh]

Your omission of some aspects of my original comment was what prompted the question, so it was what you didn’t say rather than what you said which startled me somewhat

Incidentally I’m not sure why there would be any ‘“debate” about fighting dogs? Surely anyone in their right mind finds dog fighting abhorrent, disgusting and cruel?

It is actually quite common for threads to deviate from the original post on the forum, it’s what makes life so interesting on here 😂

In all honesty, I had to go back andread your comment to which I had replied to - so probably a simple omission as I felt it irrelevant at the time.

There is debate about absolutely everything in the world...and I'm sure if there were members on here (im not sure if there are?!) who come from countries where dog fighting is legal and even widely supported, they would be able to contribute points which we in the western world would never be able to consider, purely because we have never been brought up that way. Cultural differences are huge and I'm not the type of person to dismiss anyones views without hearing them first.

I have friends of Pakistani origin, where in their home countries both cock and dog fighting happen regularly. Do I think its right, or ok, or acceptable - no. Do they participate when visiting home, certainly not that Im aware of! But they have spoken to me at length about it and the general consensus is vastly different than if you asked 99.9% of my white british friends.

You're right, it does make for interesting threads when deviating...but these sorts of posts tend to get lost because the original post is what people are reaponding to

 

[Antw23uk]

I worked with a guy in my previous job and he was a complete an utter 'knob!' the type everyone just rolled their eyes at when they walked away from him after spending more than two seconds listening to him .. complete embarrassment of a human being! He brought a husky type dog and took it to these 'protection' training classes, which I always imagined where just full of idiots like him! and turned this dog into a lethal weapon which, funnily enough, he then had no control over (big dog, little man syndrome) The dog was horrendous, couldn't be trusted with anyone in any situation and had form for biting him and it was absolutely 100% his fault he had ruined this poor animal.
I dont know much more about the training or types of people who do it and I dont want to know, I want to stay as far away from those types of people at all costs!

 

[kimberleigh]

I worked with a guy in my previous job and he was a complete an utter 'knob!' the type everyone just rolled their eyes at when they walked away from him after spending more than two seconds listening to him .. complete embarrassment of a human being! He brought a husky type dog and took it to these 'protection' training classes, which I always imagined where just full of idiots like him! and turned this dog into a lethal weapon which, funnily enough, he then had no control over (big dog, little man syndrome) The dog was horrendous, couldn't be trusted with anyone in any situation and had form for biting him and it was absolutely 100% his fault he had ruined this poor animal.
I dont know much more about the training or types of people who do it and I dont want to know, I want to stay as far away from those types of people at all costs!

People like that guy are exactly why this sort of training gets a bad name, and why it is so important to trust the right people for training.

Any decent trainer would refuse to train with someone who wanted "teeth on a lead" but sadly there are plenty who will just take the cash off whoever offers it without thought to the consequences 😏

 

[TheresaW]

If I needed protection from something/someone, our husky would either be hiding behind me or long gone 😂

 

[vallin]

How old are these chlldren? Teenagers? I find it bizarre that someone would employ a dog to guard their children at home instead of getting a responsible adult in so they aren't ever 'home alone' on a regular basis.

They vary from 12 to 18 (when they go the day, now 16 to 22). The dog is not there as a replacement for a responsible adult, the dog is there as a deterrent and to physically protect the children should the need arise. Their mother can't weigh more than 8st, she is a responsible adult but could in no way the children or herself so having the dog there makes my uncle feel more confident in leaving them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So the children aren't actually home alone when their father is away, their mother is there?

I have to say that I know some very scary 8 stone women... Do the family really feel that vulnerable in central London?

 

[vallin]

So the children aren't actually home alone when their father is away, their mother is there?

I have to say that I know some very scary 8 stone women... Do the family really feel that vulnerable in central London?

Sometimes they're home alone, sometimes the mother is there. My point was that a responsible adult and protection are not the same thing. And yes, the father feels they are vulnerable enough in central London to need a protection dog. His decision and can't say I quite see why you seem so against it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Not 'against' it as such. The whole scenario is outside my comprehension. If I felt my family was that vulnerable, I'd move them to somewhere safer and not rely on a bought in trained protection dog.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The chap I spoke to lived in the country but was concerned about tiger kidnapping, robbery etc while he was away. I'm sure you've heard of footballers and other celebs being robbed. It's those sorts of people to whom an 'Executive PPD' would appeal.

 

[blackcob]

And they'd still be better off with a big scary close protection human.

 

[{97702}]

And they'd still be better off with a big scary close protection human.

Yep! Nowt so strange as folk.....

 

[Moobli]

And they'd still be better off with a big scary close protection human.

But I’d rather have the dog 😁