Trouper
Well-Known Member
Are you near enough to your horse's previous home to speak to the farrier they used? Alternatively, can you migrate to barefoot entirely if you say his hoof quality is good?
Farrier issue
- Thread starter happyhorse978
- Start date
dorsetladette
Well-Known Member
I'd start along the lines of 'my instructor pointed out that xxxx feet have changed since i got him, I hadn't noticed, but on looking back at photos (present said photos) they do look very different' play a bit dumb and see what he comes back with. Then go from there.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
if your horse came with good feet then it is perfectly possible for him to have these and the previous farrier would be a very good choice. Good luck.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Are you absolutely sure that your horse wasn't previously barefoot, and shod to sell? This was my cob, barefoot at viewing, shod when purchased. I had shoes removed to turn out with a herd, and never replaced. In your situation I would take shoes off for the winter and see if things change. Boots and pads will work as well as shoes, and you will be able to read the hooves to see natural changes. And your farrier can't argue with your decision. As others have said, farriers are incredibly touchy about being challenged; if you find a good one hang on to him/her!
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
I bought him over from ireland with his first set on
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
I bought him from Ireland as a just backed 4 year old, he came to me with his first set on that he had done in ireland.
I've messaged a recomended farrier in the area, to see if he would take on a new client. Hopefully he will get back to me!
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I had an issue with Bailey years ago after my usual farrier who'd shod her for nearly 10 years without a problem.
The farrier came to shoe and almost immediately afterwards she was sore, she developed a foot abscess, I suspected nail bind.
Farrier came out and I said I suspected nail bind, he started digging and there was a pool of blood coming from the hole he dug in her sole, never seen anything like it, he said it was a haemotoma from a bruise. He wasn't offended that I had thought it might have been nail bind, he is human and if he had of caused her nail bind I would not have got rid of him, we all make mistakes.
Horse recovered fine, following 10 days of wet and dry poulticing. Shoe eventually put back on.
Next shoeing comes round five weeks later, farrier shoes her. After nine days (I always remember that it was 9 days) she becomes lame again, vet involved, digs sole, out comes blood again. Cleared up after ten days of wet and dry poulticing. Horse recovered fine.
Everyone said to get rid of the farrier, he must be at fault. But I kept him on. I figured it wasn't him that was at fault, it was just circumstances and a deep seated bruise.
Had the same farrier probably another six or seven years and never had any issues following on from the first two.
On x-ray of Bailey's feet to monitor coffin joint changes the vets complimented the farrier for how well the foot was balanced.
Sometimes its better to bite the bullet and have a conversation with them, no matter how uncomfortable. I'm so glad I didn't listen to people saying get rid, and I am glad I kept him on.
The farrier came to shoe and almost immediately afterwards she was sore, she developed a foot abscess, I suspected nail bind.
Farrier came out and I said I suspected nail bind, he started digging and there was a pool of blood coming from the hole he dug in her sole, never seen anything like it, he said it was a haemotoma from a bruise. He wasn't offended that I had thought it might have been nail bind, he is human and if he had of caused her nail bind I would not have got rid of him, we all make mistakes.
Horse recovered fine, following 10 days of wet and dry poulticing. Shoe eventually put back on.
Next shoeing comes round five weeks later, farrier shoes her. After nine days (I always remember that it was 9 days) she becomes lame again, vet involved, digs sole, out comes blood again. Cleared up after ten days of wet and dry poulticing. Horse recovered fine.
Everyone said to get rid of the farrier, he must be at fault. But I kept him on. I figured it wasn't him that was at fault, it was just circumstances and a deep seated bruise.
Had the same farrier probably another six or seven years and never had any issues following on from the first two.
On x-ray of Bailey's feet to monitor coffin joint changes the vets complimented the farrier for how well the foot was balanced.
Sometimes its better to bite the bullet and have a conversation with them, no matter how uncomfortable. I'm so glad I didn't listen to people saying get rid, and I am glad I kept him on.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
I think you have solved the issue. Your horse's hooves are possibly changing because shoes have been put on and he can no longer move as he did without them. That could lead to a positive, thoughtful conversation with your farrier along the lines of ' can you explain why his feet are changing shape now he is being shod? I am noticing a lower heel and longer toe - does his hoof have to be that shape to take a shoe? Hopefully farrier can explain, and if you are not happy, give him a winter without just to compare. Good luck!
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
IME most farriers shoeing most horses will lead to low heels and long toes, I dont know why but it seems very common among the vast majority of farriers. I see a large number of shod horses to observe regularly. It is real minority that have short toes, decent heels and frogs and good digital cushion and are long term shod.
I have tried a number of vet and biomechanics recommended farriers across multiple horses and not found many farriers that long term can keep short toes, decent heels and frogs and good digital cushion. And not seen many horses that are shod long term, in my part of the country and have this. Where they do, it seems to be mostly random horses managing better as opposed to one great farrier.
I also see really well known and respected farriers in the farrier world, posting online pictures of horses with really low heels, where the feet have run away forwards and being praised for them by other farriers, so I dont know what to make of that.
My current horse is barefoot, and this does give more flexibilty, but is not necessarily an easy option either.
I have tried a number of vet and biomechanics recommended farriers across multiple horses and not found many farriers that long term can keep short toes, decent heels and frogs and good digital cushion. And not seen many horses that are shod long term, in my part of the country and have this. Where they do, it seems to be mostly random horses managing better as opposed to one great farrier.
I also see really well known and respected farriers in the farrier world, posting online pictures of horses with really low heels, where the feet have run away forwards and being praised for them by other farriers, so I dont know what to make of that.
My current horse is barefoot, and this does give more flexibilty, but is not necessarily an easy option either.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I think it's just having shoes on year round. In the old days leisure horses were out of shoes in the off season, summer if they were hunters, winter if they were show horses or jumpers.
These days most horses are shots without a break for years on end and it really isn't good for feet to be peripherally loaded like that, though of course many can get away with it, largely those with very upright feet to start with.
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
So thus isnt the question, is OP's farrier doing anything wrong? Or are the feet deteriorating as horse has been shod for longer, and shod in open heeled shoes? Would another "better" farrier be able to resolve the balance issues?
Trouper
Well-Known Member
Then perhaps he is better with no shoes and a good trimmer!! I have never done the barefoot thing but I would be very tempted to try it with him.I bought him over from ireland with his first set on
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
Farrier definitely doing something wrong! He didnt come to me with bad feet, they were well balanced and after a couple of sets with farrier they started to change for the worse. And he barely trims any foot off each shoeing, and he does grow a reasonable amout of foot to be fair. I'm not ruling barefoot out totally but for now would like to try another farrier. I have managed to get an appointment with a different (recommended) farrier in my area for in a couple of weeks time so fingers crossed! Now what to say to current farrier as I have next appointment booked in which i need to cancel.... !!
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expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
Thank you for all your help to date. I’d like to cancel future appointments as I am taking a different shoeing direction.
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
You are probably right but as you said he came with his first set of shoes on and reasonable balance and your farrier is first person to shoe him regularly, you cannot rule out that it is being shod that is causing his foot balance to get worse. But changing farrier should hopefully answer this question.
bubsqueaks
Well-Known Member
I had this issue with farriers - tried several then bit the bullet & went barefoot - never looked back.
Its amazing how beholden we all feel towards our farriers!
I can also never understand how a horse can have correct foot & body balance being only shod in the front & barefoot behind - surely straight away everything is out of balance?!
Its amazing how beholden we all feel towards our farriers!
I can also never understand how a horse can have correct foot & body balance being only shod in the front & barefoot behind - surely straight away everything is out of balance?!
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
I would consider barefoot in the future but would like to see if a different farrier helps for now seeing as it is only this one farrier that has been shoeing him.
Re comment with only front shoes- I'm not sure but I've never had a problem with it before in previous years with different horses (and different farrier!)
bubsqueaks
Well-Known Member
No I dont suppose you would see an issue but I cant see the horse is in balance myself - interesting though!! Good luck with your new farrier.
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
Peglo
Well-Known Member
When I wanted to change farriers I just messaged and said
Hello I need to cancel my appointment for X day as I’m working.
I never suggested a new appointment and he didn’t bother to reply so it was fine.
Hope the new farrier works out.
Hello I need to cancel my appointment for X day as I’m working.
I never suggested a new appointment and he didn’t bother to reply so it was fine.
Hope the new farrier works out.
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the advice!
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
It's largely because there's a big difference in a barefoot trim vs. how a horse is trimmed up for a shoe. A barefoot trim aims to mimic the natural shape of a foot and to encourage concavity whereas a foot being rasped for a shoe needs to be as flat as possible.
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
Thanks, struggling to understand this as surely you have have flat surface to put a shoe on and still a short toe and a decent heel?
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
As a bare foot hits the ground, the heels absorb the impact, the heels spread slightly allowing the frog to 'bounce' and cushion the pedal bone. As the weight comes off the foot, the foot rolls forward and the hoof will leave the ground ready for the next step as the frog becomes unweighted. With a shod horse. this mechanism cannot work, as the frog rarely touches the ground, the heels bruise easier than if bare, and the horse cannot roll off the toe, he has to physically lift the foot. Over time the heels will shrink or contract, along with the frog. Bit like us trying to walk in rigid platform soles.
Take a look at the Cavallo Barefoot Trim video - it explains exactly what should not be removed and why, and it leaves a foot that would not be set up for a shoe.
Take a look at the Cavallo Barefoot Trim video - it explains exactly what should not be removed and why, and it leaves a foot that would not be set up for a shoe.
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
This! It was always considered good practice back in the day. When I still actually rode my horses those who needed shoes had shoes, those who didn't weren't shod. The shod ones always had a 3 month break from shoes at some point in any 12 month period.
People always seemed a little taken aback and sceptical if I ever mentioned the 3 month yearly break for the shod ones. No idea why they would react like that, just seems common sense to me or maybe just ingrained in me from early childhood that is the way it should be.
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
Hi all, just wanted to give a quick update for anyone else who may be in the same situation! I changed my farrier in October 2023 and it was the best thing i did!!! His feet looked better after the first shoeing and have improved each time! He pulled a few shoes off to start with (because he wasn't being shod tight like previous farrier) but I keep over reach boots on him now and his feet are looking fantastic, i am really pleased and really glad i changed farriers, my new one is brilliant. Thank you for all your advice previously!
expanding_horizon
Well-Known Member
Fantastic. Lovely to hear. Thanks for feeding back. Long may it continue going well.
lynz88
Well-Known Member
I remember noticing my horse had been set incorrectly and horse went lame as a result. I brought it up with the farrier who told me I was wrong, he was right, and there was nothing wrong with the angles he had created. This, even though he had major pulses in his feet. At the time I didn't know enough to tell him to take a hike and thought he may be right and I've been wrong after all. I can tell you, what a huge mistake and my horse will forever pay the price. We managed to correct it through pads but less than a few trim cycles later, I was back to square 1 and knew this time was enough...I was not going to pay for someone's super shoddy work who kept telling me I was wrong (and I stupidly listened). It had been a few years and I absolutely regret not finding someone else and believing in myself.
Lesson: do not be afraid to say something. Do not be afraid if they counter you. Believe in yourself and what you are seeing in your horse. Mine is a cautionary tale.
I've since not been afraid to speak up for my horse and what I believe is correct. If I'unnot comfortable communicating via text, I will make sure I am there for the farrier and let then know that the horse has been a little off since the last trim and noticed (insert what you've noticed)....the other trick I've used that I know works is once again, being present but making a comment such as "I have noticed the toe is growing out and the heels don't look right to me. What can we do to fix that in this trim cycle?"
Lesson: do not be afraid to say something. Do not be afraid if they counter you. Believe in yourself and what you are seeing in your horse. Mine is a cautionary tale.
I've since not been afraid to speak up for my horse and what I believe is correct. If I'unnot comfortable communicating via text, I will make sure I am there for the farrier and let then know that the horse has been a little off since the last trim and noticed (insert what you've noticed)....the other trick I've used that I know works is once again, being present but making a comment such as "I have noticed the toe is growing out and the heels don't look right to me. What can we do to fix that in this trim cycle?"
happyhorse978
Well-Known Member
Thank you!!
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
This. Ive used the "the vet was here last week and they were wondering why his feet are looking different and if you're shoeing him differently to fix a problem" approach. Id give him a chance to explain why hes doing what hes doing. Just because they looked neat before, may not mean they were being shod correctly for that horse. I had a horse come to me with very "neatly" shod feet, except he had a club foot which the previous owners said needed 4 weekly farrier to keep on top of. Over a long period of time my farrier slowly "fixed" it and that hoof looked pretty normal by the end and it caused no issues. Reliable farriers are hard to find IMO so Id give him the chance to explain what hes doing. If you dont agree, then part ways.