Farrier tantrum, opinions please

S

Scruffy's rider

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HI,

i have recently had a very strange experience with my farrier having what can only be described as a hissy fit/ tantrum with me and would like some thoughts about if i do anything or not. sorry its a long one!
So he arrived while it was snowing to shoe my two horses (one fronts only and a full set for the other), unusually this was a Saturday although the original booking was for Friday so i took a day off work to be there and hold. Because of the weather he decides to shoe in the stables - fair enough.
He was unusually annoyed by the older one doing his usual leany tricks but then with the other was just plain inpatient .
Now i need to give back ground here about this horse - she has had a very bad start in life and really doesn't trust people especially men, she doesn't like being poked / prodded or to be honest even stroked by people she doesn't know. So shoeing has always been interesting and involves copious amounts of nuggets and calmer as well as time from the farrier. this he knew when he first came 4 years ago and he has always done a good job and given her time.

however Saturday he just walked into the stable and grabbed her back leg! of course she was shocked and didn't expect it so jumped sideways, i did say to him he would have to be extra nice to her as in a stable she has no where to go so the flight is taken away and the last time she was shod inside was with the previous farrier who she really didn't like - if he did her out side she would not stand at all.
then every time she moved ho would come to her head and grab the lead rope to put her in a different position - often not a logical one either. this was starting to annoy me as really taking the lead rope from me is unnecessary and just rude!

then for some reason he jumped backwards and lost his balance and was shaken- she didn't strike him or even try (now she is not a kicker by any means but if she had wanted to get him he would have been got - just ask the back guy who tried to make her do a reflex back lift!) and she is a big horse in not a big stable.

On the last shoe he pretty much lost it and tried to grab the lead rope from me and rammed his thumb in her neck to shove her sideways (randomly this was back towards a wall so giving himself even less room by clearly what do i know) i cant stand for that as this was only going to end badly - shoving her like that might not sound much, with the other horse it wouldn't have done anything - but with her he might as well have hit her. so i tried to take the rope back, and told him no, he is not to shove this horse.
At the same time he was ranting right in my face about me not caring about his safety and it should be me and him against the horse and he knows how to handle horses (clearly meaning i don't! ) how he is a good farrier and bends over backwards for his customers, he also had a go that he has come back with bruises from my horse! all i could think was that if you didn't want bruises go get an office job!
He wouldn't listen to me explain that his actions were going to make her very scared and that it was for his safety that i wanted him to calm down and stop poking her!
when i got fed up of being shouted at and told him to shut up (he really was shouting at this point) he had a total fit and said he would not be spoken to like that and walked (stomped) off still ranting about unacceptable behavior and not being spoken to like that!

i managed to convince him to actually finish the shoe as he was going to leave her with nails unclenched! but only by having to apologies profusely when i really shouldnt have had to as he was basically blackmailing me, how unprofessional!

He then had time to calm down and booked us back in although i though he wasn't going to.

Now i'm not sure if i'm making too much of this or not - any perspective appreciated!
 
Sounds like he was having a bad day, but that's absolutely no excuse to be taking it out on you and your horse.

I'd call him, tell him you have had time to consider what happened and thought his behaviour was unacceptable. If he apologises and/or offers some reasonable explanation (other than it was snowing ... !) then keep the next booking and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'd tell him that you will not be shouted at by a service provider and you'll be looking elsewhere for your shoeing in the future.
 
Greylegs said:
Sounds like he was having a bad day, but that's absolutely no excuse to be taking it out on you and your horse.

I'd call him, tell him you have had time to consider what happened and thought his behaviour was unacceptable. If he apologises and/or offers some reasonable explanation (other than it was snowing ... !) then keep the next booking and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'd tell him that you will not be shouted at by a service provider and you'll be looking elsewhere for your shoeing in the future.
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Agree with this.
 
Well you don't know that he didn't have a major bust up with his wife before he left home, or whatever, but it was unacceptable behaviour to take it out on first the horse, and then you. Unprofessional too. I have to put up with tetchy academics shouting their mouths off and quite often being quite nasty and you just have to develop a thick skin and not sink to their level (they don't know what I'm THINKING about them though!) or take it out on my colleagues. I think Greylegs' advice is absolutely right. If he does apologise, don't say you are sorry too, just say you accept it and it is forgotten.
 
Don't tolerate it. Your money, get a different farrier from elsewhere. One that doesnt speak and treat you and your horse like *****. I hate stuff like this- even if he was having a bad day or the horse was rude or he doesn't like you or whatever, you are a paying customer! I work with the public/ customer services and some people are awful, and I really want to bite their heads off back but I don't because I a) aren't a rude person b) they are a customer, and they're paying my wages after all. Give your money to someone who will appreciate it.
 
madlady said:
He wouldn't be coming near mine again if he'd behaved like that.
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Unprofessional.
Personally his behaviour would not have me giving him a second chance.
I'm very black and white with how my horse should be treated after giving a livery yard the benefit of the doubt and them neglecting my horse.
Whether he was having a bad day/argument with the wife whatever. This would be totally unacceptable in my eyes.
I'm a Nurse Manager if me and the husband have an argument I can't go to work and start pushing patients over because I'm in a bad mood.
To me there wouldn't be any reasonable explanation as to his behaviour.
And call me old fashioned for a man to be ranting at a lone female also leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
madlady said:
He wouldn't be coming near mine again if he'd behaved like that.
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This. And I would probably be putting in a complaint to the powers that be. Even if he is having a bad day there is no need to take it out on your horse or you either for that matter. He has behaved totally unprofessionally. Look for another farrier. If your horse is nervous around men anyway chances are their next meeting is not likely to go well.
 
If he'll do this infront of you what would he do if you had to be absent for any reason?

When I was on a livery yard, the yo had a farrier who competed internationally to shoe her and her daughters horses. One day I was the only person about when he and his two apprentices were working on a small mare due to compete at an affiliated event the next day among others. The mare was tied up, and moved very slightly, so hit it hard about the head with his pincers. The mare shied and smacked her head on a metal grille between the stables, knocking herself over. They yanked it up and he told his apprentices not to worry about hitting horses. Mare was dazed, in fact concussed it was found next day when at the event she was not with it and consequently a dangerous ride. That day I sought out yo (who was difficult character, didn't know if she would believe me or throw a hissy fit at me for saying anything) and told her what I'd seen. They kept on with farrier but he never hit them again when he saw me, can't say what he did when I wasn't there. If you can't trust a professional to do a safe, adequate job, find another. These days when people are struggling to pay for horses good, paying customers are appreciated.
 
I would be finding another farrier and cancelling the booked appointment with the current one. I hate unprofessionalism. There is no way I would get away with being aggressive and shouting in someones face at the office I work so why should other professions be any different?

My new horse is young and taking a little while to gain trust with her so I would hate someone else to come in and upset that. I've got a female farrier and she is wonderful with her. She has no problems being shod and hopefully never will as she is having a nice quiet experience everytime.
 
It's your choice OP .
Find another farrier .
But do some serious work on your mare it's not acceptable to ask farriers to risk injury shoeing badly behaved horses .
Speak to your vet ,sedation may be a way forward but there's no way I would ask my farrier to shoe such a horse .
If the horse could not cope with shoeing in the stable you could have cancelled and rebooked and the farrier should have refused to do it when the horse was nervous at first .
I am not in any condoning his temper but he should not have been in that position and that down to him ( not refusing ) you allowing it to go ahead .
 
Greylegs said:
Sounds like he was having a bad day, but that's absolutely no excuse to be taking it out on you and your horse.

I'd call him, tell him you have had time to consider what happened and thought his behaviour was unacceptable. If he apologises and/or offers some reasonable explanation (other than it was snowing ... !) then keep the next booking and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'd tell him that you will not be shouted at by a service provider and you'll be looking elsewhere for your shoeing in the future.
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This. I doubt it was personal, but it certainly was not professional. If something serious was going on he'd have done better to call you and re-schedule. Anyone who works with horses - particularly remedial horses - knows if you're not in the right frame of mind it's just not worth doing anything that day
 
I find it more worrying that he wanted to leave the horse with nails sticking out of his foot rather than the argument. The horse's welfare should be the most important.

It does sound that it is a situation that might have built over time from your horse being bad to shoe and perhaps something else happening to the farrier that day. I would solve the problem by taking the horse barefoot and use hoof boots for protection if needed. It's not worth the hassle or the risk of someone getting injured.

ETA: I would cancel and find someone else who has a lot of successful barefoot horses on his books. And if horse leans, there is such thing as a hoof jack that will take the weight of the horse off the farrier's back, a fantastic tool!
 
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IMO the farriers actions were unacceptable and I would be upset with him. I certainly would want to talk to him before he came again.

I am lucky in that i happen to have the best farrier in the world. I have in fact, had the same farrier for over thirty years, I value his skill, his experience and knowledge, he would have to have a REALLY bad day before I would change. You simply can not pick up the phone, get a new guy and expect the service I am lucky enough to have. He is the guy the vets call in when they are stumped. So while I would be angry about his actions I wouldn't just change willy nilly. ( To be clear here, the worst my farrier has done was shout at my horse, after my horse had attempted to kick him, well deserved I felt, the shout not the kick ;) )

If your farrier has been good up to now I would wait a couple of days and then give him a ring, that's if he doesn't ring your first. I would explain again about your mare and tell him how you want her handled. if he is willing to follow your instructions then have him back, if not then I would ask around for a good replacement.
 
Greylegs said:
Sounds like he was having a bad day, but that's absolutely no excuse to be taking it out on you and your horse.

I'd call him, tell him you have had time to consider what happened and thought his behaviour was unacceptable. If he apologises and/or offers some reasonable explanation (other than it was snowing ... !) then keep the next booking and see how it goes. Otherwise, I'd tell him that you will not be shouted at by a service provider and you'll be looking elsewhere for your shoeing in the future.
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I'll second that everybody can have an off day but he just sounds plain rude and wrong!
 
It is a hard and demanding job but there is never an excuse for unprofessionalism.

If he could not cope with the horse, he should not have carried on.

Strangely enough, every time I have seen a farrier behave roughly with a horse, (and there have been a fair few times over the years), it has always been with a nervy, fidgety one and not with one that is likely to respond with aggression and try to kill the farrier.

My own horse is a bit nervy (ie unsettled by noises "off" or irregular occurrences) and a beggar for leaning and trying to chew the back of his apron but my farrier is very patient, gives him the odd nudge or poke to make him stand up properly and just gets on with it. The first time he ever shod him, he commented "he's a bit of a worrier isn't it", when horse reared when I disappeared around the corner for two seconds. A bad experience with an aggressive farrier then would have undoubtedly made things spiral.

Patience is undoubtedly a great virtue for farriers who have to put up with all kinds of hassle (badly behaved horses, filthy legs, filthy weather, clients who don't turn up/bring in/expect four done instead of the one they booked) but it is part of professionalism and I, too, would be looking for a new one in your position.
 
I agree to an extent that he was probably having a bad day but that is no excuse for his actions. If i came into the office and bopped somebody on the nose would that be considered ok just because i was having a "bad day"? Nope definitely not!! If he has shod your horses for a while I would consider giving him a call and letting him know you are not happy with the situation, if he does not apologise then I would definitely be looking elsewhere for a farrier!!
 
If you are normally happy with him then I would suggest speaking to him about the incident and giving him one chance to redeem himself. His behaviour doesn't sound acceptable but there may be a valid reason for it (unlikely though).
 
You would not walk up to any horse and just grab their leg - even a calm horse wouldn't realise immediately you wanted their hoof lifting up and may either side step or just not do anything.
I'm afraid he would not get a 2nd chance with me; get another farrier.
 
I had a farrier thump my mare on the front of her face once she was just a bit figgity for him and he flipped. I was 8 months pregnant at the time so didn't tell him what I thought of him. I never had him back to shoe my horse again and should have reported him to the Farrier Council as the mare became a head shaker from then on. My current farrier is female and she shoes my daughter's mare as the mare's previous farrier hit her and she wouldn't tolerate men shoeing her after that. Think I'd have to get another farrier if I was the OP as a horse's confidence can be knocked so easily and takes an age to get them right again.
 
Farriers are obliged to comply with a 'code of conduct' as set down by 'The Farriers Registration Council' who were set up by Royal Charter.
If you consider that a farrier has not acted professionally then you can ask the farriers registration council to refer the matter to the 'fitness to practice committee' of the farriers registration council for them to investigate the incident or incidents.
 
Hmmm, honestly? If my horse was this touchy I wouldn't ask anybody to handle her until she was perfectly well behaved. It's the owners job to train the horse, and since the farrier is the man who has to put himself underneath I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect basic manners.
 
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