Farrier tantrum, opinions please

Cortez said:
Hmmm, honestly? If my horse was this touchy I wouldn't ask anybody to handle her until she was perfectly well behaved. It's the owners job to train the horse, and since the farrier is the man who has to put himself underneath I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect basic manners.
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I have to say I agree with this.

On a slightly lighter note my old IDx used to be impeccably behaved but on one occasion tried to move sideways while having his back shoe done. Farrier growled at him, brought him back and told him to stand. Horse looked at him, stayed put.................. and cr*****d copiously down his back!!!! You practically heard him saying "I tried to warn you!"
 
Is there any chance you could find a female farrier? I know there is one around Bucks or Herts.

I would change farriers. I had to do the same last summer after being told my horse (who I have never seen do anything wrong whilst being shod) was kicked in the stomach by the farrier, simply because he lost his footing and horse was polite enough to try and (unsuccessfully) balance rather than snatch foot away. Because of how far away I work, I couldn't get there for most of last year's appointments but didn't think this was an issue as I trusted farrier and knew my horse behaved.

I have now found a farrier who will shoe my horse on a Saturday. Old farrier laughed when I said he'd been seen kicking him and told me there was no way it happened. I wouldn't have used him again after the kick, but as it goes he also made him lame that day so that made the decision even easier (oh and he couldn't give a damn about the lameness either.......) Very glad I made the move, and as a bonus I have gone from paying almost £90 for a set to just £60. Horse spends most of the time trying to lick this farrier, so I think he approves too!
 
I do wonder (as others have mentioned) whether his behavior was a result of the mare being consistently difficult to shoe and things finally coming to a head this time because of something happening in his personal life which has made him especially tetchy. However, his behaviour was completely unacceptable and unprofessional - if he wasn't happy shoeing the horse because he's worried about his safety then he is perfectly within his rights to refuse to do so, but all he needed to say was "I don't feel safe shoeing this horse", not behave the way he has done! Also, if he is that unhappy shoeing her, I'm not sure why he has been doing it for 4 years (what I understood from the OP!). I'd definitely think about looking for a female farrier though OP, if she is especially bad with men. You might be surprised by how much difference it makes!
 
I agree that the farrier's behaviour was very unprofessional and I wouldn't feel comfortable with having him back.

Having said that, to my knowledge none of my horses has ever left a farrier/trimmer with bruises and I'd be mortified if they did. If your horse is this difficult to shoe perhaps investigate whether she could go without shoes. In the meantime, their is an awful lot you can do to help your horse feel more comfortable having her feet handled and being handled generally.

Sometimes we fall in to the trap of allowing behaviour to carry on because the horse 'had a bad start in life' but really we need to see past that and accept that the horse needs to be safe for others to handle.

I'm really sorry that this happened to your horse and I don't condone the farriers behaviour in any way but I do think maybe you could make the situation safer for all concerned.
 
If he's been shoeing her for the last four years without a problem before then I'd give him one last chance ............. Any signs of aggression/impatience from him again then I would kick him into touch!
 
Sorry I think you are in the wrong. After many occasions of putting up with your horses causing him difficulty and appreciation that he is putting up with a difficult working situation he has finally snapped - probably because he's having a bad day. Bruises should not be expected as part of your regular work, just because it can happen does not been it should be seen as acceptable. I think from what you have been saying you should be more appreciative and should be working to make things easier for a farrier rather than making excuses for the horse. Fighting the horse is not the right way, but you have had plenty of time to work on things yet you think him getting repeatedly bruised by your horse is acceptable? If you were repeatedly suffering minor injuries during the course of your work from things that were beyond your control and your boss (or those responsible) did not strive to improve the situation, do you not think you would seek to change things yourself?
 
While the behaviour of the farrier in the OP is unnacceptable, I would wonder what his version is. While our horses have occasinaly caught farriers, it should not be the norm for horses to bruise any one who deals with them and I would have thought that the owner would apologise proffusely if it happens, not just say that it is part of the job.
 
No matter how frustrating the situation he shouldn't have shouted. If he was fed up with the horse previously he had a chance to refuse bookings politely

IF in the cold light of day when you are calm you are happy that your horse didn't behave badly, that he wasn't barged or kicked backwards and you are happy your version is 100% correct I think I would be diplomatic and explain to him that you feel he and the horse are not a good combination and the relationship isn't doing either of them any good, thank him for his services and look elsewhere
 
Wow their are some really tolerant people about. Horses will be horses and there won't be just yours plonking about. I would call him and sack him so he knew not to come back, I would also report him and if you felt intimidated by him you can always tell the police, personally if had shouted in my face he would off found out that I can shout louder and I don't scare at all.
 
I think you need to talk about it before the next visit. If the discussion makes you feel comfortable about him coming back again, fine, if not it's time to part company. Don't leave it until the next visit though, by then you'll be so apprehensive your horse will be sensing it and will be even worse to handle for him.
 
I can't believe what we put up with sometimes. I've had two rotten farriers over the years and in hindsight, I'd have gotten rid of them far sooner than I did (and one of them only came to me once, but I should have told him to clear off as soon as he mis-handled my timid youngster). His lack of bedside manner took a better farrier months to undo, as my boy was afraid.

I'm a grumpy old bag these days and there's no way I'd let a farrier do now, what they got away with all those years ago. We live and learn.

There's a glut of farriers around here now and they all compete for business, so I guess they all have to be a little more professional and 'user friendly'.
 
Annie B. said:
Wow their are some really tolerant people about. Horses will be horses and there won't be just yours plonking about. I would call him and sack him so he knew not to come back, I would also report him and if you felt intimidated by him you can always tell the police, personally if had shouted in my face he would off found out that I can shout louder and I don't scare at all.
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Love this
 
He may have been having a bad day but behaviour like this has no place around horses. I would not have rebooked.

In fact I ditched one of my farriers over a similar episode. She didn't snap at my horse but at me for not holding the horse (mare was tied up and stood perfectly still just like always - most she did was move her head a little to see what was going on and I don't think that's unreasonable or not to be expected when you handle large animals for a living...). Learned through the grapevine the farrier was going through a bit of an, er, unstable period and had lost her second job so she had her reasons for being stressed out. Doesn't mean I was prepared to put up with passive-aggressiveness aimed towards me as a loyal paying customer.

Trouble with farriers is good ones don't grow on trees depending on where you live, so it's not always possible to let one go when you first would rather get rid...
 
Scruffy's rider said:
HI,

i have recently had a very strange experience with my farrier having what can only be described as a hissy fit/ tantrum with me and would like some thoughts about if i do anything or not. sorry its a long one!
So he arrived while it was snowing to shoe my two horses (one fronts only and a full set for the other), unusually this was a Saturday although the original booking was for Friday so i took a day off work to be there and hold. Because of the weather he decides to shoe in the stables - fair enough.
He was unusually annoyed by the older one doing his usual leany tricks but then with the other was just plain inpatient .
Now i need to give back ground here about this horse - she has had a very bad start in life and really doesn't trust people especially men, she doesn't like being poked / prodded or to be honest even stroked by people she doesn't know. So shoeing has always been interesting and involves copious amounts of nuggets and calmer as well as time from the farrier. this he knew when he first came 4 years ago and he has always done a good job and given her time.

however Saturday he just walked into the stable and grabbed her back leg! of course she was shocked and didn't expect it so jumped sideways, i did say to him he would have to be extra nice to her as in a stable she has no where to go so the flight is taken away and the last time she was shod inside was with the previous farrier who she really didn't like - if he did her out side she would not stand at all.
then every time she moved ho would come to her head and grab the lead rope to put her in a different position - often not a logical one either. this was starting to annoy me as really taking the lead rope from me is unnecessary and just rude!

then for some reason he jumped backwards and lost his balance and was shaken- she didn't strike him or even try (now she is not a kicker by any means but if she had wanted to get him he would have been got - just ask the back guy who tried to make her do a reflex back lift!) and she is a big horse in not a big stable.

On the last shoe he pretty much lost it and tried to grab the lead rope from me and rammed his thumb in her neck to shove her sideways (randomly this was back towards a wall so giving himself even less room by clearly what do i know) i cant stand for that as this was only going to end badly - shoving her like that might not sound much, with the other horse it wouldn't have done anything - but with her he might as well have hit her. so i tried to take the rope back, and told him no, he is not to shove this horse.
At the same time he was ranting right in my face about me not caring about his safety and it should be me and him against the horse and he knows how to handle horses (clearly meaning i don't! ) how he is a good farrier and bends over backwards for his customers, he also had a go that he has come back with bruises from my horse! all i could think was that if you didn't want bruises go get an office job!
He wouldn't listen to me explain that his actions were going to make her very scared and that it was for his safety that i wanted him to calm down and stop poking her!
when i got fed up of being shouted at and told him to shut up (he really was shouting at this point) he had a total fit and said he would not be spoken to like that and walked (stomped) off still ranting about unacceptable behavior and not being spoken to like that!

i managed to convince him to actually finish the shoe as he was going to leave her with nails unclenched! but only by having to apologies profusely when i really shouldnt have had to as he was basically blackmailing me, how unprofessional!

He then had time to calm down and booked us back in although i though he wasn't going to.

Now i'm not sure if i'm making too much of this or not - any perspective appreciated!
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"and it should be me and him against the horse"

I cannot believe this comment. Surely it should be you and him working with and for the horse... yes safety is paramount but working in ways the horse can cope with is vital for safety.

From bitter experience no second chances from me, I would no longer trust him.

ps. From Farriers code of professional conduct 2015:-

"The Guiding Principles

Your clients are entitled to expect that you will:

 make horse welfare your first consideration in seeking to provide
the most appropriate attention for horses committed to your care
including due regard to a safe working environment
 ensure that all horses under your care are treated humanely and
with respect"
http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/infor...ons/a-farriers-guide-to-professional-conduct/
 
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He'd be gone. He can shout at me all he likes, I couldn't give a rats ass, but to act like that to a horse he knows is nervy and easily upset? We all know that really small, tiny things can cause big behavioral issues. Bad day or not, he might have unwound any good work OP put in.
 
Lots of people saying exactly what I would have said so I'm just going to ask, what do you think OP, having had a couple of days to think about it and seeing the replies on here - are you going to have him back for a second visit/ring him before you do? Good luck with whatever you decide is best for you and your mare's sake.
 
LittleGinger said:
Lots of people saying exactly what I would have said so I'm just going to ask, what do you think OP, having had a couple of days to think about it and seeing the replies on here - are you going to have him back for a second visit/ring him before you do? Good luck with whatever you decide is best for you and your mare's sake.
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I think I will have him back this next time, he has sent me an apology text now so I will be generous but keep a keen eye. Also might see is anyone locally has used a lady farrier I found on the register, ladies seem to be more forgiving so might be worth checking her out!
Thank you all for your in put, pleased I'm not over reacting!

Xx
 
Scruffy's rider said:
I think I will have him back this next time, he has sent me an apology text now so I will be generous but keep a keen eye. Also might see is anyone locally has used a lady farrier I found on the register, ladies seem to be more forgiving so might be worth checking her out!
Thank you all for your in put, pleased I'm not over reacting!

Xx
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What did he apologise for - his rough handling of your horse or shouting at you? Either way, he wouldn't be coming near me or my horse again. Unproffessional, unacceptable & unwarranted behaviour.
 
I am glad he's apologised .
What plan have you made SR to improve your mares manners before next time .
You really need to address this in a proactive way.
 
This is an interesting thread. OP my OH is a farrier and gets very impatient (with me) if the pony is not stood exactly where he wants it. But he can be rude to me lol, he would never be rude to a customer nor treat a horse roughly. However I don't see why a farrier should need to get bruised, and I also think a lot of people don't realise how annoying a leaning or even head moving horse is when you are trying to shoe it. There is a small margin of error especially when nailing and the horse needs to tolerate the process for it to be done safely-for all concerned. So I can see both points of view. They are only human after all. My OH will take the lead rope and position a horse where he wants it. This is not meant to cause offence. If you refer to the Farriers guide to professional conduct, it states that the client should ensure the horse is used to being handled......in the event of a horse being unruly the client should agree with the farrier on the management of the horse......
 
horsemadmum1 said:
This is an interesting thread. OP my OH is a farrier and gets very impatient (with me) if the pony is not stood exactly where he wants it. But he can be rude to me lol, he would never be rude to a customer nor treat a horse roughly. However I don't see why a farrier should need to get bruised, and I also think a lot of people don't realise how annoying a leaning or even head moving horse is when you are trying to shoe it. There is a small margin of error especially when nailing and the horse needs to tolerate the process for it to be done safely-for all concerned. So I can see both points of view. They are only human after all. My OH will take the lead rope and position a horse where he wants it. This is not meant to cause offence. If you refer to the Farriers guide to professional conduct, it states that the client should ensure the horse is used to being handled......in the event of a horse being unruly the client should agree with the farrier on the management of the horse......
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And does he shout in client's faces? For that alone I wouldn't have that guy back.
 
No he does not. He would have no customers if he did that. I doubt myself I would have this farrier back.....but I would like to hear his version of events too. For the record, my OH has been a farrier for about thirty years and has kept many of the same clients for that time, all down to professionalism, patience, skill and updating of knowledge. Also knowing when to walk away.
 
I would be thoroughly pissed off myself that my horse was still bad for him after four years TBH and I wouldn't be making excuses for it either.
He is not there to train your horse for you (or anyone) that is your own job and he is thoroughly in his rights to be pissed off himself if they don't behave at any time by now; both they and the owner should know better. It infuriates me when people make excuses for their own animals behaving badly for what is a regular happening for them.
 
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