Farriers - single or double clip?!?

[bubsqueaks]

Just wondered if anybody could help explain -
For years now we have used a very experienced farrier who makes his own shoes & always uses single toe clip - feet look amazing when shod.
For health reasons we have now had to change farriers & upon recommendation chose a farrier who has shod ponies using double toe clip on fronts, left toe overhang & at heel quite an obvious bit of spare shoe - its like the shoes just havent been fitted to the hoof at all & am worrying now.
Please could somebody explain for me as they are so vastly different & I just dont like the look of these new ones at all or is it me being too traditional?!?

 

[ihatework]

With the caveat I can’t actually see the shod foot, I like the sound of the second farrier. Sounding a lot like you have a shoe placement for better breakover and heel support ...

 

[ester]

Two toe clips mean you can set the shoe back, which brings the breakover back. A lot of shoeing actually seems to have inadequate amount of shoe at the heel so while what you are seeing is different it is possible it is 'better'.

They seem to be a source of much division between farriers as in I have spoken to some who are very against their use and some who like to use them a lot. The against explained to me that they felt it could encourage the hoof to run forwards between the toe clips, so the break over would then be forced to come forwards.

 

[Auslander]

With the caveat I can’t actually see the shod foot, I like the sound of the second farrier. Sounding a lot like you have a shoe placement for better breakover and heel support ...

Agree (including the caveat!) My horse doesn't have double toe clips, but he is shod in a similar way

 

[ester]

I think this is quite a well written piece.
http://www.georgiafarriers.org/articles/clip-effects.pdf

Which has interesting photos of the flattening of the quarters on the last page from clip pressure (well how it is described anyway).

 

[bubsqueaks]

Opinion seems to be divided at our yard too but I guess that's horsemanship for you! It just looks a shoddy job leaving toe slightly overhanding front & part of shoe showing at back which gives me concern there is enough for pony to overreach onto & shoe to be pulled off! Maybe the proof will be in how she goes over the course of the next 6 weeks but it will take a huge amount of time for this style to rest easy with me I can tell you but must remain open minded I suppose & for now theyre on & time will tell. Thanks guys as ever very informative.

 

[madamebonnie]

My farrier prefers to use a double clip with George. However due to pulling off both front shoes quite spectacularly 2 months ago we are continuing with a single clip.

Some people may look at his shoes and think they look a bit 'wonky' or 'do not fit properly'. But in reality he is given great support, I know all vets in my area recommend my farrier so feel in safe hands.

 

[ester]

Realistically there usually should be enough shoe there to over reach and pull off.
My own got into real trouble as a result of shoeing with too short heels.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Realistically there usually should be enough shoe there to over reach and pull off.
My own got into real trouble as a result of shoeing with too short heels.

Gosh it makes me wonder if Ive been wrongly shod all these years! The 2 different sets from last time to this time are so vastly different I guess its the change Im struggling to understand but thanku I guess its better to loose a shoe than injure a heel?

 

[Fiona]

The second farrier sounds good to me, with lots of heel support.

Good luck.

Fiona

 

[ester]

It's not injuring a heel, it's usually the long term cumulative affect of it changing hoof angles and causing soft tissue damage within the hoof capsule.

This is a particularly old photo but this was not good shoeing for this hoof. (taken before I was more adept at taking hoof photos)

Because without a shoe it ended up looking like this

It was remedially shod like this (note the increase in shoe length at the heel), which did significantly improve the outer hoof capsule, didn't make him sound though, had to take shoes off to achieve that.

 

[bubsqueaks]

It's not injuring a heel, it's usually the long term cumulative affect of it changing hoof angles and causing soft tissue damage within the hoof capsule.

This is a particularly old photo but this was not good shoeing for this hoof. (taken before I was more adept at taking hoof photos)

Because without a shoe it ended up looking like this

It was remedially shod like this (note the increase in shoe length at the heel), which did significantly improve the outer hoof capsule, didn't make him sound though, had to take shoes off to achieve that.

Wow thank you for taking the time to post the pics Im learning a whole lot more about farriery !

 

[ester]

It may not be the best example but I think it sort of shows a similar difference to what you are seeing so thought it might help.

 

[ponyparty]

Mine's just been shod as you describe - two toe clips, toe kept nice and short to put breakover back (he has mild navicular) and plenty of shoe at the heel (which is making me nervous as he used to pull shoes all the time, eeeek!). He shoe is also slightly bevelled at the toe to assist the breakover and he's used copper coated nails as copper has antibacterial properties.
I'd seen this style of shoeing before but not understood the reasoning behind it; farrier took the time to explain to me though and I'm trusting his judgement.

 

[Floxie]

This is reassuring. This is how my horse is shod and I'd love to ask why but I didn't know how without sounding demanding..! (I don't see my farrier in person these days so it would have to be via text and you know how those can be misread! "Hello, please explain this..")

 

[Goldenstar]

All double toe clips here keeps the breakover back and good long shoes for heel support

 

[mandyroberts]

Mine does both depending on issues with the horse.
As others have said there should be some shoe 'sticking out' behind heel but some habitual shoe pullers end up being shod a bit shorter as if they pull the shoe too often that will cause problems too (and they can pull a shoe even with over reach boots).
Mine normally shoes with 2 toe clips behind but is shoeing my young horse with a front toe clip and a side toe clip because his hoof wall is a bit narrow one side and the side clip takes some of the strain off the clenches (I think that's what he said?)

 

[milliepops]

Agree (including the caveat!) My horse doesn't have double toe clips, but he is shod in a similar way

same!

Millie always had quarter clips, she's been unshod for nearly a year now but her feet remain the same shape so she would go straight back to quarter clips if she was shod again.
the 2 orange girls have toe clips but a good bit of length. OH calls it "shod like a dressage horse" hopefully they will live up to that :lol: