Fat Competition Riders

[lindsayH]

I agree with the OP in principle as I think that an unbalanced very overweight rider is likely to do more damage than an unbalanced thin rider. However, my 15.1hh rather unbalanced arab prefers being ridden by my size 16-18 sharer than size 10-12 me as she has (if I'm brutally honest) better balance and a better seat than I do.

 

[madeleine1]

I agree with OP comments.

At a recent show I and my horse where entered into the weight carrier section which was followed by the light hack class. I witnessed a poor horse having its mouth "held on to" by the rider who couldnt ride a twenty meter circle in trot who was vastly overweight (sounds bitchy but I could barely see the saddle, harsh but true and doesnt help the balance cause at all). This hotse was in the light hack class..... Is it fair to ask a light hack to carry approx. 20 stone of unbalanced "dead" weight? I would say no and something should be said.

How often do you see people struggling over the last jumps of a XC/SJ course due to lack of fitness, regardless of size? Is this not dangerous riding? In particular, jumping XC when completing unbalanced yourself meaning you are hindering the horse.

"ETA - and why is it ok to say someone is really skinny to their face, but it's not ok to say they are really fat??"

That peeves me off big time!

Rant over Steps off

i dont think it is ok to mention anyones weigh, skinny or fat in a negative wiegh.

 

[SusieT]

Oh yes, I will take responsibility for any horse that I ride personally. My standards should not be used to judge everyone else though.
Please feel free anyone who 'competes' (and somehow therefore must be an ideal standard??) to put up a video and invite people to 'advise' you on how to be a more elegant picture, without hindering the horse in anyway...
I just can't see why it is anyone elses business? An unbalanced rider will get marked down in dressage. Their results will not be so good jumping. Hopefully they will seek advice/instruction and this person will guide them towards them being too fat. What else is there to say? It bothers you because it doesn't look pretty? I see plenty of horrendous riding but I don't consider it my right to say that rider is a bad person for not improving their riding/ selling their horse and sticking to a non animal form exercise.

 

[RuthnMeg]

My mum is often telling me iam too big for Meg. Iam 5'4, weigh 10.5 st. Personally, Meg carries me fine, BUT when we have a 'tiff' schooling, its obvious that when I 'don't go with it' I cause Meg to lose the rythmn and balance and all the rest. Total rider fault for being too wobberly and no feather either. Iam consious of my weight, but yet to lose enough to make a difference due to me being a lazy bum.
Iam also not fit, and that really doesn't help.

Iam affraid Iam a great one for pointing out the ''go lightlies'' on their poor horses. Big people on suitable horses are fine, it really is the fat people on the slighter breeds that should seriously think about what they are doing.

Shoot me down now..

 

[little_flea]

i dont think it is ok to mention anyones weigh, skinny or fat in a negative wiegh.

Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.

 

[Baggybreeches]

I agree entirely. I am not going to into the holier than thou syndrome, but I am short, and I am inherently greedy, I have been tremendously fat, but I have lost huge amounts of weight.
I am now at a fairly happy medium stage, unfortunately I am also very heavy (as commented upon by my GP when I had my last medical), so I actually have to work that bit harder to lose weight.
My weight has fluctuated as a adult between 13st12lbs and 9st 9lbs, my personal ideal weight is 10st3lbs although this is still over my BMI guide, I currently weigh about 10st7lbs, due to dismal diet and busy work days. However, I have the discipline to know that how ever much weight goes on, the same has to be lost again!
As Gamebird says, I want to mix it with the pro's and to do that I need to work that bit harder to make life easier for my horse.
And to add to the should your instructor/coach tell you this, yes absolutely they should, and I have been told on several occasions as an adult when I needed to lose weight, and as a child I was fortunate(?) to be kept in check by my forthright family members!

 

[Baggybreeches]

And seeing as I've got a lot larger margin for improvement than her just think what my results could be like next year!

This is pretty much what I was trying to say I think, though rather better put!

The world is your oyster my dear!

 

[TarrSteps]

It's a tricky one and obviously a fraught subject to discuss.

There's no way to legislate it, at least not for open competition. Teams etc. are a bit different as there are "people" in place in those situations to have those conversations and people have signed on to do whatever it takes to win.

I've certainly had the conversation with students, not in a harsh way but if they ask me what might make a difference I think I'm honour bound to reply honestly, just as I'd do if we were discussing a horse's soundness, money or any other potentially emotional subject. BUT I assume, at the end of the day, my clients are responsible, intelligent adults and they're doing their best in the situation they're in. I might advise a different long/short term course, maybe even a change of goals or even horse but the only time I'll be tempted to be a bit more direct is when someone is endangering their/the horse's safety and soundness, or holding out goals that really don't line up with their ability to reach them and so are setting up for disappointment at best. I've yet to come across anyone who didn't know, in their heart of hearts, that significant extra weight was a problem.

Very few of us are as fit as we *should* be and lead blameless lifestyles, if we want to be honest about it. And let's face it, there are some truly atrocious riders who aren't a pound over weight.

Also, I've seen people make phenomenal changes, mostly, to be honest, when people back off a bit and show a willingness to be understanding not just judgemental. Often these changes come from realising that improvement is within their control, not something that just *happens* and comes as part of a larger enthusiasm and education.

 

[Equus Leather]

QR

Totally agree and actually had a discussion with H&H about this last week in an email convo. I'm a size 16/18. When I first got back into riding I was all over the place - unbalanced and unfit. I couldn't maintain a circle of trot I was that unfit.

That was 3 years ago. I'm still roughly the same size, but a different shape. I'm MUCH fitter and in a lesson a couple of weeks ago I maintained trot and canter work for an hour without a red face. I would challenge some skiiny minnies to be able to do that

So - are we all agreed that it's not always size and it's not always balance that are the problem.....that it's often a bit of both....big riders can be balanced.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Also, I've seen people make phenomenal changes, mostly, to be honest, when people back off a bit and show a willingness to be understanding not just judgemental. Often these changes come from realising that improvement is within their control, not something that just *happens* and comes as part of a larger enthusiasm and education.

*Takes hat off to TarrSteps* this is the key thing, nobody made me lose weight, I just did it! I was driving home from work one Tuesday night and went into a Weightwatchers meeting that I passed.

 

[wellsat]

I don't understand how they do it! I'm a rather sickening 5ft 8 and 9 1/2 stone so not fat in the slightest. I would say I'm fairly fit as I have a horse on DIY, ride every day and enjoy sport. Having been more of a dressage rider up to now I did my first HT earlier this year and almost fell off as I crossed the finishing line from an inability to breathe. How you get fit enough to be able to regularly go xc and still be fat is a real mystery to me.

 

[Decision_Tree]

Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.

I think that anything performance related should be said - if some1s horse was over weight and/or unfit then some1 would say it so why not the rider?

 

[Honey08]

I've put on a couple of stones over the last couple of years - stopped smoking and got married to someone built like WFP. I've really noticed a difference in my riding, especially my flatwork. I'm still quite fit, so don't collapse off after XC, and would never ride my horse back to the box. (seen quite a lot of thin people do this too... I do feel that I would be better to get the weight off. I'm just pants at it!

I'm an instructor, but wouldn't dream of telling someone that they were too fat. I have known colleagues that would though, but TBH they are naturally skinny people that have no idea how hard it is to lose weight if you have a problem. TBH if someone said something like that to me I would go off and cry, and probably eat a packet of biscuits! I may say things like "you need to work on your fitness and strength before you do affiliated eventing..." or something, but that would be the worst I'd say.

I haven't evented this year, my horse was at stud, so I've the winter to get it off before the next season.. My horse is still perfectly capable of carrying me, but like people have said, its not right to get the horse fit enough to event, when you're not.. I've been on my husband's horse this year, who is much bigger and stronger than mine, and the weight has sometimes helped me on him!

 

[SusieT]

Tarrsteps said what I wanted to much more elegantly

 

[only_me]

I am no skinny mini either - at size 12 I wish I was a size 8!! But all my "weight" is on my thighs - so all my pairs of jeans are size 12 but they are too big on the waist - so I have to wear a belt with EVERYTHING I wear!!

At the start of the summer I was a size 14 (uni diet!!) and managed to loose all my uni pounds over summer - my riding improved dramatically (just ask my dressage trainer!!) and as a result horse was going much better.

As for instructors mentioning weight, my dressage instructor told me "there is two fat animals there"
He kept telling me to lay off the pizzas

But by the end of the summer he was congratulating me on loosing the weight and lots of comlpimants heading my way

But larger riders in a too small jacket = for me - you should see some of the people in our paper doing "dressage" - no wonder the horse wont go in an outline - he has to poke his nose to keep balanced!
They just cant have the ability to have balance themselves - so the poor horse is totally hampered!

 

[kerilli]

she said a size 24 which could be any weight as people are differant sizes. a 5 ft person could be size 24 at 17 stone but im a size 16 at 17 stone and 5,7

hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying.
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style.
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.

 

[Daytona]

Riders expect there horses to be in peak condition and are forever working on there fitness.diet etc.

Therefore I feel you should also take the same interest in your own level of fitness and diet,

Don't expect your horse to be an athlete if your not!!

Im not saying we should all be athlete but we should all do some form of cardio exercise to maintain are own lever of fitness, so if you cant run for at least 30mins, are you really fit enough to be riding a horse??

Is fair on your horse to carry you about!!

Now i not a skinny mini I am 5ft 10 and weight 12 stone, and at I have been as much as 13.5 stone, but i was still very fit (i ran a marathon at that weight) so you can be over weight and fit , but there reaches a point where this is not possible, thats when you really need to look at your lifestyle, and maybe re-consider your diet!

If not then dont ride horses and sit on your arse all day long

 

[scatty_mare]

This is such an interesting thread.
Totally agree that most people who have a significant weight problem are aware of it in their heart of hearts, but so often feel that it is out of their control, it is something they can compensate for with a new saddle or lessons with a famous instructor, or a fancy sheepskin breastplate!
They just have to realise they CAN do it, and it is within their control. Nagging and nastiness will only make things worse.
I am a personal trainer and diet and lifestyle coach and am planning to run fitness classes and one to one 'coaching' specifically targeted at riders. I wasn't sure there would be much market for this - people are so much keener to spend their money on things they can get instantly - but reading this thread makes me think there is hope!

 

[scatty_mare]

hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying.
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style.
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.

Agree completely. Sadly I have the legs of a rugby player on steroids. I run too much I think.
ETA and eat too many chocolate hobnobs

 

[little_flea]

hmmm, but, and I am sorry to nitpick, size 24 is never going to be svelte, whether the person is 4'6", 5'6" or even 6'6"... size 24 is large in anyone's book.

I think these things need saying.
I see a really dramatic difference in the effectiveness of the leg aids in particular, when a rider is slim cf. overweight. Taller long-legged riders can get away with a bit more I think, they still have a lot of leg around the horse even if they are overweight, but short riders with very chunky legs are always going to be up against it when it comes to wrapping those legs around, they can end up 'perched', Thelwell-style.
Short riders with slim legs, on the other hand, can wrap around what leg they have and use it very effectively.
So, it's not just aesthetics, or horse welfare, it's basically about being a much more effective rider, something we all strive for.

It is a difficult one when it comes to things you can't change - I would try to lose weight if I was too heavy for my horse, and I work on my core strength to be a more effective rider - but, as anyone can see in the video I posted earlier today, I am short and my horse is very big. Quite simply, there is no way my legs will wrap around her properly no matter how thin or fit I am. It is not particularly aesthetically pleasing, but there is nothing I can really do about it, apart from sell the horse!

 

[icestationzebra]

Oh yes, I will take responsibility for any horse that I ride personally. My standards should not be used to judge everyone else though.
Please feel free anyone who 'competes' (and somehow therefore must be an ideal standard??) to put up a video and invite people to 'advise' you on how to be a more elegant picture, without hindering the horse in anyway...
I just can't see why it is anyone elses business? An unbalanced rider will get marked down in dressage. Their results will not be so good jumping. Hopefully they will seek advice/instruction and this person will guide them towards them being too fat. What else is there to say? It bothers you because it doesn't look pretty? I see plenty of horrendous riding but I don't consider it my right to say that rider is a bad person for not improving their riding/ selling their horse and sticking to a non animal form exercise.

Well whilst I 'should' say it's not about looking pretty - let's be honest - it's got a lot to do with it. Talented riders that are also slim and elegant will always look better - fact, and as Gamebird points out - a lot of the pros fit this category - because they are excellent at what they do and are 'fit for purpose'. Most of us probably don't fit into all those categories so perhaps we are all chasing that elusive dream who knows. That isn't what this post is about though is it? It's about when your weight hinders your riding and becomes unfair to the horse. I don't care if people think that shouldn't be my business or not I've a right to my opinion - based on the fact I think we owe it to our horses to make their job as easy as possible and not because I am some sparkling role model on any count.....

 

[Luci07]

There is a slightly sanctimonious tone to this thread. I am very aware of my body shape and how I have to work around it having had a very forthright dressage trainer at one point and we are talking about someone who could talk about the impact of short thighs/long calves etc. Nothing I could to do change my actual body shape but do the best with what I have. When I did event, I also took up with a personal trainer as could not get the right results on my own. I had 3 horses to work at that time and was not aerobically fit enough. She had to come up with a totally different work out as my fitness/strength was widly disportinate. Eg, back and thigh muscles way up on the strength scale, stomach muscles way down. Aerobic middlling but stamina good.

I am not a skinny mini, never have been and would have very peed off if someone saw fit to tell I was overweight. I would rather be judged by my riding. Weight less now than when I evented but not as fit, but can compete without collapsing very happily - so I would judge someone on how they ride, not if they are skinny or fat.

And I was talking to someone who is a professionial about how horses change your physical shape anyway - ie. no rider has slim forearms or calves. Even my mega tiny (size 8) friend has to go to a large to get into her boots. We also tend to have problems with core strength and problems with too much strength in our backs and not enough in front.

so how about making the thread less of a an attack and more about what other exercise is good to help with your riding? I did do running and walking but stopped that since no 2 dog is refusing to go out with me so bought a Wii instead!

 

[Dirtymare]

This is a very interesting thread.
I can see both sides of this.
I'm 5ft 7" and weighed 9.5st for alot of years. I didnt do any exercise except for riding and mucking out. I was very very unfit. My riding suffered incredibly as I didnt have core muscle strenghth. Then 3 yrs ago I became ill - and lost even more weight as I recovered from my illness.
Now, I'm a couple of stone heavier. However, I'm very very fit. I run 3-4 times a week and when I get the time, I cycle too. I dont wish to blow my own trumpet, but my riding has improved no end, and my horse is going better than ever.
I have seen morbidly obese riders ride fantasitcally. I have also seen skinny minis ride appaulingly too.
I think as long as the horse can carry the weight, there should be no argument.
It is just asthetics.

 

[madeleine1]

Not from an "attractiveness" point of view, but if it is constructive criticism towards improving their riding from a coaching point of view, then I think it is absolutely fair. Like someone else said, instructors tell their students that they need to work towards softer hands/ a more independent balanced seat/ whatever, so if weight affects their riding, then it should be mentioned.

Of course any advice has to be delivered with tact and if the rider is willing to improve - shouting "oi you are too fat" from the arena fence to someone you don't know is unlikely to be well-received, as with anything...

But I don't see why it should be an untouchable subject if it is purely performance-related.

it doesnt have to be untouchable but it should be about, balance and carriage, not weight or height. my riding instructer has told me to loose a bit of weight but she also says my riding is really well balanced and that it would be more of a problem if it wasnt

 

[Quadro]

The rider i was using in my example is shortish but is still huge! Balances totally on the horses mouths (hence they stop) due to her lack of balance etc

Baggybreeches=Slightly off topic but i know that ever one gets really hung up on BMIs but there are cases where they will never work eg top NBA players who are 6"9 plus and weigh 22 stone (muscle of course) they come up on the obese side but of course they are exceptionally fit althetes and just by looking a pictures of Lebron James and Dwayne Wade etc will show they are anything but fat (OH is majorly into basketball hence my using this as an example!)

 

[Firewell]

I do not have a problem with overweight, off balance riders as long as they are suitably mounted on big, heavy horses who can cope.

I actually applaud someone who is bigger (within reason!) for giving riding a go as it is a great form of exercise and may help them to loose weight and potentially save the NHS the cost of treating them for illnesses related to their obesity. Good on them! Carrying hay bales and practsing sitting trot is a lot better then the same person getting depressed and eating more on the sofa...

What I do dislike is seeing lw horses with riders that are clearly too heavy and said rider pulling the horse off balance. They should either lose the weight to ride that horse or get a more suitable horse.

I'm a bit of a weed, I admit that. Which is why I ride light sensitive tb's. I wouldn't feel comfortable on some great thundering wbxid, it would be too wide, I wouldn't be able to hold it together and it be too strong. I could eat more and work at the gym to ride that sort of horse but I dont because I'm happy with my skinny pins tb. Saying that my dressage trainer wins PSG on giant warmblood and she's only 7/8 stone but she works to make herself as strong as possible.

 

[Tnavas]

Contraversial? I think your comment downright rude! Being a now larger than life lady - I'd love to get you all back here in 30 years time and see what weight you all are!

I'm 5'7" and I used to be 7½stone until I got glandular fever at 25yrs then keeping weight down became a struggle. Until 5yrs ago I rode daily but work got in the way and as I'm longer working with horses the weight pilled on. It is NOT easy to lose despite being discipplined as to what I eat.

I see many slim riders who are constanly interfering with their horse, are 'heavy' riders as they have no control over their body mass. When I ride, despite my size I have control over my body and sit very lightly.

 

[kerilli]

There is a slightly sanctimonious tone to this thread.


And I was talking to someone who is a professionial about how horses change your physical shape anyway - ie. no rider has slim forearms or calves. Even my mega tiny (size 8) friend has to go to a large to get into her boots. We also tend to have problems with core strength and problems with too much strength in our backs and not enough in front.

No, I really don't think there is, at all. I don't see anyone posting anything along the lines of "I'm skinny, they're fat, therefore they can't ride, or they shouldn't ride"!

As for your second comment - sorry, but you're wrong on that one. I can think of absolutely loads of riders, Pros & amateurs, who either stay slim or are natural ectomorphs, and stay that way even though they are very fit and ride multiple horses every day. I can think of a few Pros with chunky forearms and calves, and literally hundreds with slim ones!

 

[Flame_]

Well just a few points to add...

I know a couple of riders who need to eat a bit more and lift a few more water buckets to enable them to be as effective as they want to be, being slim and of a weak build hinders riding as well.

Having just bought a 14.2 arab, weight is now something I'm going to have to really concentrate on and not allow it to creep up, I see this as a good incentive not to be too fat, which I should be doing anyway!

Finally, and most importantly, equestrians are constantly trying to get our "sport" taken seriously. How can riders expect to be respected as athletes if we lie to ourselves that we can still do as well when unfit and overweight?

 

[madeleine1]

No, I really don't think there is, at all. I don't see anyone posting anything along the lines of "I'm skinny, they're fat, therefore they can't ride, or they shouldn't ride"!

As for your second comment - sorry, but you're wrong on that one. I can think of absolutely loads of riders, Pros & amateurs, who either stay slim or are natural ectomorphs, and stay that way even though they are very fit and ride multiple horses every day. I can think of a few Pros with chunky forearms and calves, and literally hundreds with slim ones!

one of luci points is that even skinny riders have larger and more developed thighs and arms as that is the nature of the sport. i have to agree. i know loads of tiny riders who still have built legs and arms