Fatality at Badminton - Officials Useless

I didn't see the fall and I have never fence judged. It sounds like a terrible incident and we will never know how we will react in a crisis until we experience it. But I think this does suggest some room for improvement in the briefing of fence judges.

The difference between someone who freezes in a crisis and someone who acts (and this has been studied in connection with even more frightening circumstances, plane crashes and sinking ships) is having a prepared plan.

One poster said that when she fence judges with her mum they have a standing agreement that in the event of an accident one takes the radio and attends the rider while the other goes after the horse. This sort of plan takes minutes to settle and is free of cost and straightforward but could be the difference between a crisis being managed effectively and mistakes being made.

It would make a huge amount of sense for briefings on fence judges to put judges into their teams/pairs for fences and to then ask them to spend five minutes between themselves formulating and writing down their emergency plan, including who radios control, who attends to the horse, who attends to the rider etc. This simple act of asking them to actually imagine themselves taking the actions and decide who does what would really make them more likely to react calmly and in a prepared way in a crisis.
 
Have any of you seen a horse with a broken leg? I have 3 times. The first one was turned out, she smashed threw the cannon and splint bones, she was still galloping about the field as adreline had taken over, the 2nd did it over a xc fence, it carried on jumping 2 more with no sign on pain. The 3rd also continued cantering on, it was in competition.

When in a comp situation the adreline seems to stop the pain until the horse stops.
 
kerilli said:
totally agree. i was at Burghley for the debacle when the crowd stopped Lucinda Fredericks on Brit, with previous rider still on the floor (right in front of me.) the fence judges were useless, she was only winded but of the 3 of them none helped her up, and they wouldn't let me duck under the rope to help her (she's a friend of mine).

I saw a similar thing happen at Burgie last year, previous rider still on floor and next rider galloping down the hill and stopped by crowd. The fence judges didn't seem to get his time for the stoppage and he was v miffed to get lots of time penalties (undeserved imho.)

There are set procedures for what to do in the event of a fall (and yes, I fence judge). First, and this is emphasised strongly at every briefing, you MUST immediately radio to tell XC Control that there is a fall of rider and/or horse at your fence, and whether the course is clear or not. IF this is followed, then other riders will NOT arrive at your fence, there's a 1.5 min or 2 min gap between them at a 1-day and 4 mins at a 4 star for goodness' sake.

I agree that someone should go to the rider immediately but someone should also go to the horse, there's no excuse for not reacting fast, that's what they're there for. they should be tried and tested fence judges who have been proven to do the right thing immediately under pressure, some people freeze and some don't, simple as that, you need the latter type. BE needs a shake-up if they are using the wrong people to fence judge at their premier events...

huge sympathies to poor Louisa and connections. Tragic.
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Couldn't agree with this more. Fence judging is very important, generally you are the first people to an injured rider/horse and you MUST be able to deal with these situations properly and not freeze, you shouldn't be there if you can't handle it! Especially at something so prestigious as Badminton.

Having fence judged a lot before, we always discuss whose job is what before starting, and always have it clear and agreed who is attending the horse and who is attending the rider should anything happen.

Sounds like an awful situation for both horse and rider, not dealt with appropriately by the stewards, and my heart goes out to all :(
 
Katt a lot of people fence judgw in pairs with a friend so they are with the same person every week. The organisers aim for 2 people per fence, 3 on really complicated fences. However at the smaller events if people don't turn up you may even have someone watching 2 fences.

I don't know how you test for how someone copes in a crisis, the aircraft analogy is a good one in that all the staff will have had really good training and tests but aome are better than others in a crisis. Do you not use judges that are very experienced but have been lucky enough not to have had a bad incident to deal with.

From experience there is a huge difference betweeb a nasty fall even with a broken arm or a horse that needs a cut attended to and seeing a rider on the floor and thinking they might die.

The judges in this case didn't cope well but I just don't think they deserve all this criticism on a public forum for it.

After that they may not want to judge again anyway. After the accident we saw mty friend never jump judged again and we coped at the time.
 
QR

I dont disagree that the rider should be attended first if down on the ground/unconscious/not moving etc. But if the rider is up on his/her feet, then they are clearly 'walking wounded' at worst and the priority should then be the horse, surely?

In the one really bad fall I have had, I was knocked out for about 5/10 seconds (the shock of the fall, I think as opposed to any real head injury) and I was attended to first. My horse was down also, having turned over and come down on top of me. I was out for such a short time though that the minute I opened my eyes I jumped up on my feet and looked around for my horse - she was my priority, let alone anyone else's! And upon seeing that I was up and ok, everyone else went to attend to my horse also. This is surely how it should be in every case when manpower is low....in an ideal world there would be some fence judges assigned to deal with human casualties and others assigned to deal with the horses, however I appreciate this may not always be possible.

It's easy to sit here and criticise now - at the end of the day, what happened was horrific for everyone, judges, riders, spectators, and until you are in that position it is hard to know how you will deal with it, even in a position of responsibility. At least the mare was put down quickly and didnt have to suffer for long. I cant imagine what Louisa and her connections must be going through right now :(
 
Whilst i agree that eventing couldnt run without volunteers and they are very precious to the running of the sport i do feel that their seletion must be made VERY carefully at an event like Badminton.

Now i have no idea of the experience of the stewards at Badminton but for there to be several there and no one stopped the next horse (the crowd did) i think is inexcusable. Also, to have several there with the rider up and walking and no one going to the horse isnt good enough either. Of course the rider comes first but with enough manpower the stopping of the course and catching the horse are basic tasks of the job.

What makes it even more important is the fact it was Badminton- hundreds of thousands of spectators and on TV all day, probably the most famous Horse Trials in the world. Volunteers or not, the stewards MUST be up to scratch to prevent incidents like these. They are obviously no good for the riders/horses involved but also to the reputation of the sport as a whole.

You wouldnt get the village mechanic to drive the safety car at the British F1 Grand Prix. You choose experienced, effective people who can do the job on autopilot and not get stage struck or freeze in an emergency.
 
criso said:
Katt a lot of people fence judgw in pairs with a friend so they are with the same person every week. The organisers aim for 2 people per fence, 3 on really complicated fences. However at the smaller events if people don't turn up you may even have someone watching 2 fences.

I don't know how you test for how someone copes in a crisis, the aircraft analogy is a good one in that all the staff will have had really good training and tests but aome are better than others in a crisis. Do you not use judges that are very experienced but have been lucky enough not to have had a bad incident to deal with.

From experience there is a huge difference betweeb a nasty fall even with a broken arm or a horse that needs a cut attended to and seeing a rider on the floor and thinking they might die.

The judges in this case didn't cope well but I just don't think they deserve all this criticism on a public forum for it.

After that they may not want to judge again anyway. After the accident we saw mty friend never jump judged again and we coped at the time.
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I'm not critisising them, no one knows how they will react in a crisis. What I am saying is that eventing could learn a little from other spheres about how to maximise the chances of their volunteers reacting calmly in a crisis.

You can't test every fence judge I'm not suggesting that, but it has been proven in both simulated and real situations that drilling people in advance prevents panic and improves reactions.

On 9/11 one company in the trade centre had a much higher percentage of people escape than anyother. The reason was not their location or the type of people they employed, it was the factthat they had regular emergency evacuation drills with their staff so they were able to evactuate on auto pilot.

Cabin crew on airliners are drilled over and over on safety proceedures and have to perform evactuations in the dark and in a smoke filled cabin to ensure that when they come to it they will respond calmly.

They have done studies and concluded that regular drills are hugely important where possible but something as simple as visualising what you would do in any given emergency really can be the difference between life and death.

All I'm saying is that it would be a big improvement if at the events during the briefing they asked all officials in their pairs or threes to formulate their plan (even if they judge together every time) preferably when they already know which fence they are at and can do it in full knowledge of where they will be sitting, where the nearest back up is etc. A five minute chat and serious consideration of the steps to take, the order to do them and who is doing what would improve reactions for many judges.

I guess a lot of good judges do this anyway instinctively or because they are dilligent but instructing them all to do this, and maybe even giving them a form to fill in to prompt them to think about it would ensure that all fence judges do it, even inexperienced ones.

It would cost nothing and take very little time but would ensure that every fence had someone who had thought about what to do in an emergency.
 
They are briefed, some are seasoned fence judges - but in the end they are people, human beings and like all of us, not infallible. I'm sure they'll learn a good lesson from this situation, they don't need us to flame them too.
 
If its any comfort to anyone I doubt the horse felt much. Like previous posters have said he would have been running on adrenalin. My horse had a compound fracture of the tibia playing in the field and when I arrived at the yard a couple of minutes before the vet I ran down the field to be met with the yard owner holding my horse. My horse had his ears forward, whinnied softly at me and looked for all intents and purposes as if nothing was wrong.

I have heard of a similiar thing with humans, they can lose arms or legs in accidents involving fire arms or machinery and yet not feel the pain at first. It is shock and adrenalin that protects us from pain.

How very sad for Louisa and the spectators. It is sad that people feel necessary to criticise the fence judges for acting like most people would have, faced with such a horrific accident happening in front of them.

RIP horse.
 
Odd though it may sound, severe/catastrophic fractures are generally less painful to the horse than a minor one - the nerves are completely severed as they are close to the bone. OH told me about being called out to PTS a horse with a broken leg. Got there, horse happily grazing - he was almost wondering what he was there for - until it moved to the next piece of grass, clearly on 3 legs (field injury)! More recently, horse with broken leg at a p2p. Also swinging in the wind style, right above the boot. The horse seemed more bothered by all the people/being left by the field than by the injury. It kept trying to stand on the leg, (unlike a horse that's lame from a tendon injury or something, where they seem to try and keep it off the ground).

I didn't see anything on Sunday but, to be fair to the Fence Judges, most of the briefings re dealing with incidents are about keeping yourself safe, and an injured horse can be very dangerous. Even with a drill, although you can rehearse dealing with a trapped/recumbent horse with the fire brigade models, dealing with a loose, clearly injured, horse is not something you can practice - it's not hard to "catch" a model, and most horsy people could catch an uninjured horse without problems. A scenario with a loose horse which is severly injured would be relatively rare. More often than not, severly injured horses are on the floor, or the injury happens in a such way the that the rider doesn't come off (Barbaro) and pulls the horse up and jumps off (and is therefore holding the horse already waiting for assistance).

TBH the people with the best chance of catching an injured horse would be the mounted stewards, the vet or the rider or other connection, not someone that the horse has never seen before and has limited experience dealing with injured horses. Someone running towards the horse to catch it might well end up with the horse panicing and either going down, or kicking someone!

The problem with emergencies is that it always seems to be something different than the expected emergency that actually happens
 
I don't know about stewarding at events, but I am a regular mounted steward at our P2P. What we are always told by the organisers is that the fence stewards are there to divert the field, radio for medics and to attend to the rider. The mounted stewards are there to catch loose horses and to radio for the vet/ambulance if necessary.

in 5 years we've had only one fatal horse fall (broken shoulder and pelvis), and 3 injured riders (mostly ribs and collar bone, and one dislocated shoulder). The course has never had to be diverted (because of when and where the horse fell). BUT knowing who's responsibility is what has to be the key here - yes getting to be a fencejudge is about who not what you know, but that shouldn't stop the organisers from making sure that people know the protocol. And yes, you never know how you'll react in a dire emergency like that, but training of any description is vital in helping you cope.

I was at Bramham when my then instructor (Julie) fell at the double of logs going down hill away from the shopping village. The horse hadn't been listening when she tried to shorten him up for the first part, and so he got in deep to the second part and then couldn't get himself up and over. Julie landed on the log and damaged her spine. The horse flipped, virtually landed on his feet and naffed off. He was caught some 10 mins later by which time Julie was in the ambulance on her way to Jimmy's in Leeds. If the stewards had concentrated on catching the horse would Julie be riding or even walking now? I very much doubt it!!

My heart goes out to Louisa, and her support teams and owners, but please.... don't criticise the stewards without knowing what they'd been told to do in that situation, and without knowing how you would react.
 
I was also at the fence and feel pretty much the same as the OP.

The Officials did not take any action to contain the horse. Although she struggled to get to its feet initially she then stood quietly. No one approached her as she stood inside the angle of the brush and even when she tried to make off she was not acting in a dangerous manner. Infact Louisa herself caught her and she stood quietly at that point whilst she was untacked.

A half screen was then put up infront of the horse shielding it from an area where there were no spectators but leaving it in full view of those spectators who had not yet taken their children or themselves away.

There is no excuse for the way in which the horse was treated. This fence causes falls every year. If these people arent trained to deal with emergencies then why not get someone who is? The money that Badminton takes should surely allow for a horse ambulance or at the very least, an appropriately trained veterinary professional to be at our near those fences that cause the most problems. If Aintree can have horse professionals and handlers at each fence, why cant Badminton ?

If safety is an issue for the Officials, maybe they should wear proper protective headwear rather than a Bowler hat. They do afterall take responsibility for catching loose horses so should set an example and wear proper head gear.
 
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
 
I can't comment on this particular incident at Huntsmans Close as I didn't witness it but I find this quite interesting as earlier on in the day I was at this fence and quietly thought to myself what a dreadful job the stewards/fence judges were doing there. They were so busy chatting and laughing amongst themselves that on several occasions failed to realise a horse was approaching and were standing in inappropriate places and had to run out of the way. They seemed to be on more of a jolly then taking what they were doing seriously, therefore I have to question whether they were capable of doing the right thing when this awful incident occured. I appreciate that the sport couldn't opperate without volunteers but surely these people must be knowledgable and take the job seriously.
 
Moneybox said:
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
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What would you like them to do, describe the horse's injuries in graphic detail ? :(
The commentator's job at this point is to keep the public informed that there is a hold up on the course and then just keep going until the course is open again. So they will talk about the event, forthcoming event, sponsors etc Maybe you would prefer silence, but that's not the way it works.
Felt for the commentator at the Heythrop TC recently who had a badly injured competitor right in front of him, and had to keep the mike open, resorted to reading bits out of the programme :)
 
Moneybox said:
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
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Are you for real?
 
I fence judge about twice a year. And the other week as some of you may know I fell off at Eland Lodge.
All I can say is the fj's at fence 7 were literally there the minute I hit the floor i got dragged by my foot, one of them caught the horse to stop me being dragged, and the other fj came to me to check how I was. They were very professional and as we were unscathed gave me a quick leg up and let me carry on round the course.
There are some very good fence judges after all
 
No I used to think that about the commentators. But eventing like other horse/rider injury sports tend to downplay anything remotely distasteful. Many horses die each year in horse racing for example yet the camera men are trained to direct their cameras away from pile ups on the racetracks and comentators are told to divert their talk away from dying horses/riders. Unfortunately this give the general public a biased view on these sports, and people are not given the full facts. When something totally tragic whether it be loss of human life or horse happens, people are shocked and greatly saddened. They cannot comprehend that such a thing could happen.

There is a website for example, by Animal Aid that gives full details of each racehorse fatality on a british racetracks. In over 1150 days 507 horses have lost their lives as a result of accidents on the racetracks. Compare this with eventing where fortunately there are fewer fatalaties. This is only due to there being less eventing than racing though. This is the list of riders killed in eventing from a website I have googled which is shocking in its truth. http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2008/eventingsafety2008.shtml
 
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BID said:
. They were so busy chatting and laughing amongst themselves that on several occasions failed to realise a horse was approaching and were standing in inappropriate places and had to run out of the way. They seemed to be on more of a jolly then taking what they were doing seriously, .
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Thinking on from this I do think there may be some merit in asking FJs to refrain from alcohol during judging. Having been a visitor to Badminton for 40 odd years I have always been rather jealous of the humongous picnic baskets and bars contained in their cars. I am in no way saying that this was connected to the awful accidednt on Sunday but it would not only keep them alert but safeguard them from any accusations!
 
My partner and I have fence judged for 3 years and I also fence marshalled for National Hunt racing for several years. We don't event so we aren't doing it to get an entry and we aren't in it for the glory of doing one of the big events. We do it because we enjoy it and like to support the sport.

We have organised ouselves so that we each have specific jobs to do and like to think that we can handle most situations BUT this thread has made us think about what we would do in the event of a serious incident like this.

Thankfully we have had very few incidents and we feel we have handled them as well as we could (although I was once shouted at by a spectator for not catching a loose horse. I explained that I couldn't catch it because we were a designated holding point and we were in the process of closing the course and keeping the course controller informed. The spectator said that I should have caught the horse instead and then the course wouldn't need to be stopped. I asked them what would happen if I approached the horse and it ran away. The course would still be open with a loose horse on it etc etc. The spectator became another issue that we had to deal with).

I gave up the National Hunt fence marshalling after a fatal accident at the fence I was on. It wasn't the only fatal fall I saw but it really got to me. In National Hunt the job is mainly to replace divots and repair fences. We also had flags to signal for the Doctor or Vet but we didn't really get involved because they were following the field anyway.

This has made me think hard about how I would react. These serious incidents are so infrequent that you cannot really prepare. No 2 incidents, whether serious or not, are the same. Do we give up? I don't know. There have been no serious accidents at any of the events we have done so far and the chances of one happening are slim. Would I freeze? I can honestly say I don't know. I didn't freeze at the racing incident but have never done it since. Will we make decisions that others don't agree with? Almost certainly but we are only trying to help.

I don't know the answer to these questions but we have thought about it and can only hope that it doesn't happen.
 
Many of the fence judges at Badminton are not the regular fence judges you see around the circuit. They are mainly ex military who are drafted in for the occasion.

It has been a sore subject for many years as there is a real database of experienced fence judges who do most weekends from Mar-Oct who are only asked to do the rope crossings at these events.

A few years ago I was watching at Blenheim when a horse fell at the first water just after the huge ditch (around fence 5/6). The fence judges failed to report this, instead just went to the riders aid. Fair enough, but without reporting the incident no one stopped the next horse coming. The crowd started to run out in front of the next rider to stop them coming (which was obviously dangerous) but what having no official waving a flag the poor rider had no idea what she was meant to do etc

It was a real mess and just showed you really do need to be experienced in this game. There are a number of offcials around these fences, what would make more sense is one person run to the riders aid whilst the other gets on the radio to call help/course control/doctor or whoever.

The briefings are all well and good but unless youre use to the format its a lot to take in.
 
Moneybox said:
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
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As a spectator I would not like them telling me, and thousand of others (how many attend on xc day?it's a very huge number) that a horse was dying on the course, imagine the crowds reaction, I'm sure lots of people would be in hysterics.
I'm sure Mike Tucker and Ian Stark (I'm pretty sure it was them commentating) cared very much, unlike you unrightly say.

RIP Desert Island, such a tragedy
 
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I can agree with the adrenaline aspect of an injury like this. 4 months ago my horse and I had a run in with some electric fencing, short version is it dislocated my foot from my leg, snapping a bone and then popping back in. I was literally on the phone immediately calling people to come and get the horse in before calling an ambulance, as I didn't want him to be spooked.

I quite happily chatted away to the first people on the scene (and then the other 8 people that turned up!) laughing and joking about whether I had matching underwear on. The pain only set in when they moved me to the ambulance, and I must have been on the floor a good hour by this point.

So if any consolation, (and taking into account that as a prey animal a horse would have to just keep going in the wild, or get eaten) I would assume that the horse would have had the adrenaline etc kicking in and felt less pain than one would imagine the injury to have caused.

Regarding the owner being up and walking and therefore ok - I am sure there was a relatively famous person who had a skiing accident and was 'up and walking' and seemed to be fine, then died of a massive brain heamorrage a few hours later? The attendants probably instinctively ran to her first - and if they do not have horses themselves it could be suggested that they would not have thought to catch and hold the horse, unlike how one someone else may have reacted, had we been that steward.

I do not think anyone would not check the rider first, no matter what the situation, although very very sad to have lost a beloved horse.
 
Moneybox said:
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
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FGS I dont think that by announceing on live TV and dwelling on a dreadful situation that there had been a fatality would have helped anyone. The spectators that were at the fence were upset enough, do you really think that this news should have been put on the commentory so that those with a goulish disposition could rush to the fence and watch, holding up procedures even more.
Mike Tucker and Ian Stark were proffessional in their sport and are also proffessional in their job now, I am sure they would have been very aware of the situation and have as much empathy to the rider and the horse, more than you would believe.
 
Moneybox said:
I was deeply offened by the presenters who babbled on about the Olympics etc; they didn't seem bothered that a horse was dying on the course and that a hard-working competitor was losing her team-mate.

I wasn't in the mood to listen to their drivel because my mind/thoughts was on the horse and rider.

Maybe next year they will sack the two male presenters and give the job to someone who can care enough to realise that "we" care even though they, apparently did not!
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Oh come on, get real. Whether you are talking about the BBC or the commentary at Badminton surely you not expect a blow by blow account of what was happening do you?? Now that is sick. What do you expect. They are hardly going to say "well, now the horse is cantering off on 3 legs, now it is caught, now we are putting the screens up, now we are shooting etc etc" All they can do is infill with various stuff. Most people with half a brain would know that something awful had happened and would know that it was not good.
 
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