Feeding, do you handle your horses when they are eating?

posie_honey said:
ditto
actually i often use food as a distraction - yesterday she ate whilst i cleaned a small scuff on her fetlock - if i'd tried to do it when she wasnt distracted she'd be certain it was a massive gauge out of her and i was trying to kill her :rolleyes:
so food = distraction = no fuss :D
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I do the same. Was especially useful when poulticing my daughter's mare, she will of course stand without food but it was much easier to give her a lick to keep her busy and just crack on. With horses I avoid arguments that I don't need to have.
 
Aces_High said:
OK - I am VERY strict and insist that they do as they are told. I tell them 'over' they move, 'back' they reverse etc. Until recently I worked on a professional basis with racehorses so I am aware of manners and horse management. I keep my horses at home so he isn't a threat to anyone. The horse was in training for about 6 years and it's just one of those things he does. He wouldn't lunge at you to bite but yes he kicks and he double barrels so don't stand behind him and don't mess with him when he eats. Simple really! As I said if you are confident with him all is well. I won't get involved with my views on animal behavourists :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....!!
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How many of the racehorses you dealt with daily were 'handled' whilst being fed, Aces_High?
 
amymay said:
Funny that;):D
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Hee hee!! I was just thinking if there was time in the day to go around doing cuddles when they were eating their supper etc..... To me on a professional level be it kennels, cattery, horses on full livery, racing yard, SJ yard etc. The horses are left alone to eat. I think that especially highly strung youngsters eat better when there is less activity going on in the yard. They have their morning feed at 0430 before the main body of staff arrive. They have their lunch before the staff leave off for lunch and their supper is the last thing they get before the staff leave off for the night. Yes they do get checked at 2100 or similar sort of time. I am not aware of any kennels of catterys which offer feedtime snuggles, cushion plumping etc whilst your pet is having it's supper and I wouldn't expect it to my horse. They have done all of that before they are fed! I personally wouldn't dream of going back into my horses stables after they have had their supper unless I have forgotten something or checking I have locked their doors. Surely it's common sense and a good use of time??!!! I must admit, I have never been one who could take 4 hours to muck out, ride etc. A_H and faffing do not go together!!
 
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I must be very cruel as I pick out feet and change rugs at every feedtime! Neither of mine are bothered. I think they need to accept humans being around them at all times. I did however have one horse who could be a bit nasty with his back feet at feed times and it really annoyed me so he had to wait for his feed until I had picked out feet and changed rug as wasnt worth the risk of being booted.

I wont however groom or generally fuss around them when feeding. My daughter loves giving her pony cuddles and even wants to sit on him bareback when he has his feed but I do tell her to let him have his tea in peace. That would be too much....

They can spend the rest of 23 hrs a day when I am not there eating in peace!
 
I know that when my two (and by the sounds of it the new third one as well) are eating, they truly are at their happiest. They are total grubbers and I can see from their faces feeding time is bliss.

So I leave them alone :) they're very good and stand quiet to let me change rugs/groom/mess about with them the rest of the time so I like to leave them to their food.
 
Kallibear said:
I don't tease my horse whilst eating (and certainly not tease him with food, or use 'taking food away' to prove dominance) but I expect them all to let me do stuff to them whilst eating, just as they would whilst standing tied up.
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It should be possible to do this, I agree. You don't want a horse to view you as a threat while he is eating. This is the key to hassle-free feed times, whether or not you choose to do things with or around your horse.

A horse would never threaten to or even actually kick out at a more dominate horse nearby whilst eating it's dinner, so I don't see why it should do it to me. They only chase off lower ranking horses who pester them whilst eating and I don't class as lower ranking.
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I wouldn't say "never". Subordinate horses do sometimes kick out at more dominant horses in self-defence if they feel threatened and are unable to move away.

If you were truly seen as dominant, a horse would tend to move away from you when you approach. However, that isn't the only reason why a horse might do that, and the fact that a horse can be displaced from food by someone is not by itself indicative that the horse views the person as dominant.

Conversely, a horse may threaten or show aggression for a variety of reasons other than dominance.

Any horse that happily allows you to be near him while he is eating cannot consider you a threat - the two are mutually incompatible. So, if there really was a pecking-order dynamic between you, a lack of any sort of reaction on your approach would suggest an equal ranking, wouldn't it? (In theory, however, an equal ranked herd member could still pose a threat...)

Alternatively, there may be no such dynamic, because the horse never even started viewing you as a competitor or rival, let alone another horse - so the classic dominant and/or submissive signs are never exhibited. You aren't part of the pecking order, and you avoid trying to give that impression.

It may seem incredible that this is even possible - no pecking order?? :eek: -- but consider this... I have worked with horses that trusted me and followed me willingly without use of force, were fine at feed time (one, a stallion, even let me put my face in the same bucket without any sign of annoyance), were easily moved around, didn't push me around, allowed me to pick up, brush, hose down, worm, apply flyspray etc. without pulling faces, and were generally polite and 'respectful' of my space - and yet, they didn't react to my approaching them boldly with squared shoulders and 'loud' body language by backing off. In fact, I would have to wave my hands in their face to get any reaction. Uh oh - so they didn't see me as higher ranking? How could that be?? The reason is, I believe, that dominance was an irrelevance in the relationship - their fear/distrust of me had diminished to the extent that gestures which would normally cause a horse to shrink away was no longer perceived as threatening, and they hadn't (re-)learned to respond to my body language in the usual way because I hadn't taught them. (Why would I want to do that anyway?)

Letting go of the idea that people are necessarily members of a equine hierarchy of dominance -- even honorary ones -- is helpful on a practical level, and quite liberating when it comes to thinking about horse-human interaction. I can see why people would want to hold on to the idea though.

I suspect those horses who are agressive whilst eating are finally showing their true thoughts on humans and where they therefore think they stand in the pecking order.
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Or it could simply be that they are expressing annoyance or anxiety in anticipation of the person interrupting their eating of high value food. They need to learn that you aren't a threat in any sense. In my opinion, they don't need a lesson in "respect" or be taught to accept the person meekly/grudgingly "or else". One doesn't make oneself less of a threat to horses by threatening them! Choosing the latter route risks merely suppressing aggression which may then reappear unpredictably at some point. If the horse is truly comfortable, there is no danger of that happening.

Interestingly my friend has an older horse who has naff all respect for her (she's a rather too nicely nicely to him) but he goes along with everything she asks because he's a nice old soul. Except at feeding time, when he tells her to bugger off in no uncertain terms. However he NEVER does that to me (from whom he's had a couple of tellings off) and in fact stands back respectfully to let me take his dinner away (which I've never done, he's just willing to let me)
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You know your friend's horse better than I do, of course. However, it is possible that he stands back from you either because he is less certain (and therefore more fearful) of you, or because he has learned to do that on previous occasions. Or maybe his telling your friend to bugger off is something he's learned almost as a ritual (fixed pattern) at feed time with this specific person - and this pattern is broken simply by the fact that you are someone else. My I respectfully suggest that it may not have anything to do with respect, despite looking respectful.
 
Erm, well when Shy is having his Topspec, I sit beside him, and pick up any nuggets he's dropped, and then when he's finished, we check his bowl and the floor together. The he gives me a foody lick, and he's off for the haynet :o
 
My mare was a rescue after a cruelty case and she was highly food oriented ago when she came to me. Now she still likes her grub but she is chilled out. I do prefer to let mine eat but if I have to they are fine with picking out feet and rugs etc. I think she sussed that I don't eat happy hoof :D
 
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