Feeding horses designed to live on fresh air - discuss

[Auslander]

I've seen so many threads, both here and on Facebook recently, where people are asking what expensive feeds they should be shovelling down their natives/cobs.

Perhaps I'm missing a trick here, but I don't get why people feel that native ponies and cobby types need loads of hard feed, when they have evolved perfectly to sustain themselves on very little, even when they're in foal/otherwise compromised. They don't need to be fed like blood horses (and even those probably don't need to be fed half of what they're getting, unless their workload is significant)

On the one hand, there seems to be a massive upsurge in interest in feeding high fibre, sugar free diets, which is great, and all that the majority of horses need. But, there's also a trend for people to feed native types as if they are racehorses - which isn't a good thing at all.

I believe that the nutritional needs of most horses are met by good quality forage, adequate grazing, and, sometimes, the addition of a simple high fibre feed/balancer - with supplementation only where there is a valid reason for doing so.

If your horse is thin, feed it more forage before going crazy on the hard feed. If your horse is fat, don't feed it, and work the ****** harder. If it's fresh and naughty, don't feed it, and work the ****** harder. If there's nothing amiss with your horses weight/behaviour/general health - carry on doing what you're doing.

And GO...

 

[Sophire]

Wholeheartedly agree with all points. Although not a native/cob, I have a warmblood mare who is the 'live off fresh air' type. In 7 years of owning her she's been fed for 2 when in hard work.

 

[milliepops]

totally agree.
Had a similar thought this week. My 2 moved into a new paddock with stacks of grass. I was away with work so they weren't worked and I asked my YO to put them in for me in the evening. I had a phone call later asking where their dinners were.. this is a 14.2 section D and a 15hh cob x, both stuffed the gunnels with grass and with a haynet in front of them for the night. She was a bit surprised that there were no dinners

I know quite a few people that would be a feed manufacturer's dream... a pretty picture on the sack and a name or description that promises the world and they are sucked in. The cost of some of these mixes etc... that promise a calm horse, or a responsive horse, or "controlled" energy, etc etc, it's eyewatering - most of these are natives or part native in extremely light work, that just need to do a bit more work and be a bit fitter!

 

[Tangaroo]

I have a 17hh ID and an 11hh dartmoor and neither of them get any feed whatsoever. They have grass and hay and thats it. Not even a balancer and they are both a picture of health

 

[Laika]

My pony just looks at food and gains weight...

I completely agree with you. My pony is just fed what she needs to maintain good health, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Nativelover]

I'm afraid that I place the 'blame' solely on the showing circuit, for years now there has been an encouragement for the horses to be fat in the show ring, with many judges placing non obese ponies down the line and saying they need more on them.
The popularity of native ponies has shot up exponentially, and many times they can be within the financial reach of very novice owners, whom admire the winners in the ring and wish to emulate this, hence the endless threads and fb posts asking what to feed.
When I bought my dear boy years ago, his breeders even told me to feed a huge bucket full of things he really didn't need, just to get 'the look'.

However along with this is also the seemingly growing trend of keeping horses stabled more frequently, and they are worked less. Which as we know is unnatural for many horses especially native types. Perhaps owners would be best placed to spend more time riding than wondering what to feed the ponies.
I've donned my tin hat..... Fire away!��

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Nothing to add you've said it all^.

The Spillers lady at Hartpury suggested a balancer for Topaz, despite saying she was the perfect weight with what she is currently being fed. Topaz is the ultimate good do'er and has had no hard feed for approx 2 years, we have relented and given her a tiny amount of linseed, oats and grass nuts to see her through her coat change as her coat wasn't looking too sparkling, but will be back to nothing once on the summer grass.

From fatty:

To fit:

I will never feed processed feeds with all the rubbish and sugar in them again, just hay here unless they're lacking .

 

[Laika]

Nothing to add you've said it all^.

The Spillers lady at Hartpury suggested a balancer for Topaz, despite saying she was the perfect weight with what she is currently being fed. Topaz is the ultimate good do'er and has had no hard feed for approx 2 years, we have relented and given her a tiny amount of linseed, oats and grass nuts to see her through her coat change as her coat wasn't looking too sparkling, but will be back to nothing once on the summer grass.

From fatty:

To fit:

I will never feed processed feeds with all the rubbish and sugar in them again, just hay here unless they're lacking .

HNNNG! What a beauty!!!

 

[catkin]

there's also a few other factors at play here which have changed a lot over the past few years:

grass has changed, new varieties etc so the type of easily available forage even is not necessarily the same as it was even 10 years ago

the pervasive power of advertising and peer pressure - did anyone else notice the adverts by a well-known feed manufacturer using photos of small natives to advertise winter conditioning feeds recently (and that's just one example)

workload and off-seasons: on one hand it has become harder and harder to keep ponies fit as hacking routes are becoming dangerous in parts of the country, on the other hand there are now competitions year round so horses not getting 'down-time' and are being fed to keep them 'up'. When the show season was approx May to September all those fat little ponies were being shown in their summer condition, no pressure to have a fat 'show condition' pony in January when they were either hunting or out in the fields on holiday.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I learned my lesson yrs ago!

We bought a TBxWelsh D who had a checkered feeding history, having been starved and then fed back up.
At the time it was most usual to feed a molasses coarse mix. After struggling with her unpredictable behaviour for a long time, we realised that she could not tolerate any cereals or refined sugars.

Nowadays, I am a great fan of plain oat straw chaff, for those who can't cope with AdLib hay. I doubt that there are many leisure horses which need extra feeding, if they get enough forage/grass.

 

[MissMistletoe]

I do think that there are a growing population of people who get a native/cob type and never have the time to exercise it enough to keep it trim and healthy. They try to fit it into their busy lives of work and children/social etc and wonder why it is fat!.

I see it all the time on the native forums/groups what to feed this fat animal and what supplements will help it lose weight and give it more oomph.

The pony just needs working!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I do think that there are a growing population of people who get a native/cob type and never have the time to exercise it enough to keep it trim and healthy. They try to fit it into their busy lives of work and children/social etc and wonder why it is fat!.

I see it all the time on the native forums/groups what to feed this fat animal and what supplements will help it lose weight and give it more oomph.

The pony just needs working!

Exercise was the key for Topaz, we've worked very hard over this winter. We try to make sure she gets no more than 2 days off a week and sweats at least 3 times, whether it be doing interval work in the school, schooling, jumping, fast hacks, anything which gets the heart rate up and those jiggly bits jiggling :lol:.

 

[milliepops]

I see it all the time on the native forums/groups what to feed this fat animal and what supplements will help it lose weight and give it more oomph.

The pony just needs working!

Quite! I evented my older mare to Novice off grass & a tiny handful of nuts to carry some salt into her. She was fit as a fiddle, there's no substitute for putting the work in.

 

[TGM]

Totally agree! I have a 14hh pony and she has evented, hunted, showjumped, shown, dressaged, done PC rallies and camps, gone to numerous RC/PC national championships, done sponsored rides etc., all on grass, haylage and a low calorie balancer. A lot of people are horrified that she only gets a 'handful of brown dust' but I am always getting compliments on how well she looks.

Unfortunately, these days people seem to think that being a 'good horse-owner' means feeding them bucket loads of food and piling tons of 'condition' on them. So often I see people buying horses in perfectly healthy, fit condition and then hearing them planning all sorts of weird and wonderful foods and supplements to 'build muscle', 'add condition', 'give him a bit extra' when the horse doesn't need it at all. And then wonder why they start misbehaving or get laminitis!

 

[be positive]

It is not just natives and cob types that are fed too much, my ISH and pba, who is now 26, have wintered out this year with no hard feed, not even a token, they had their haylage cut out weeks ago as they were looking too well, they are not working but even if they were I think they would have been fine on a token gesture.
This winter I have fed grassnuts and unmolassed chaff in small quantities to the ones in at night, nothing gets much just enough to carry supplements and keep them quiet, they get adlib forage which is the key to keeping them well, happy and healthy, I rarely have anything that requires much feed, even the exracehorse was only the same as the rest just a little more when he was working.

 

[crabbymare]

totally agree. half the broodmares and youngstock are overweight and it just seems to go on through the life of the horse. a lot of judges need educating (and possibly glasses) so they can see that horses are far too fat and would do well in a beef cattle class. feed and supplement manufacturers advertising to guilt trip people into thinking if they do not stuff their horse with feed and supplements they will not be able to manage the 1/2 hour 3 times a week that they are ridden. In reality they would be a lot better off on good quality hay and more work. the other problem is there are not enough people who have the knowledge or confidence to be the one that stands out in a yard and says their horse does not need the bucket loads of feed that many others are getting so it often ends up almost an I am better than you because I feed my horse xyz feed plus abc balancer plus extra vitamins and minerals

 

[paddi22]

the horse food industry is a total scam, and it sounds harsh but if you asked the horses i would imagine they would say they would rpefer if their owners spent as much time energy and research giving themselves high fibre sugarfree diets (i need to go on one myself anyways!)

one of my events weekly on oats and a balancer, the others just get the best quality hay i can afford and a handful of balancer. they all hack out happily 4+ hours, some barefoot. I am baffled at the amount of massive feeds you see at livery yards for horses who are doing very, very little work. I understand people like nurturing their horses and the concept of giving them dinners, but 95% of horses would be better off with none

 

[Leo Walker]

The problem is with a really good doer you have to restrict their access to grass and they cant eat ad lib hay, so they end up on a hugely restricted diet and then they do need a decent vitamin and mineral supplement to compensate, which entails a small feed to carry it. I had a nightmare with my greedy cob as no amount of work would keep the weight off. The only thing that worked for him was turnout in a dirt paddock and micro managing him so he had access to forage but always low calorie.

I'm also not sure people know what a horse should look like at all! I see so, so, so many fat horses and the owners are oblivious. The amount of people that told me my old cob was fine or even needed a bit more condition was ridiculous!

My new boy is a bit poor and needs top line and muscle. He came to me in January underweight and I've slowly built him back up with ad lib forage and things like grass nuts. Hes now on a small amount of pink mash to carry some linseed, salt and his balancer in.

I get people commenting about how thin he is all the time. Hes not, hes just weak. Its muscle he needs not fat.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I’m on a livery yard, where whoever is the first one up feeds horses on ‘their’ part of the yard. Usually it is the YM but a few occasions recently it has been another livery. My native doesn’t need breakfast but does get it as every other horse on his block does. As I’m not usually down for 1-2 hours afterwards to turn out it’s easier to feed than to have him kick his door down! But, he’s literally fed a handful of Fast Fibre twice a day mixed with Equimins vitamins and minerals, some magnesium and salt. I’ve been asked twice by this livery if this is all he gets and how he’s such a poor boy who surely needs more feed. I think he could still do with losing a little bit of weight …!

He’s on soaked hay & is currently muzzled 50% of the time he’s turned out. Ideally I’d muzzle him more, but if I muzzle him every day he gets it off within 30 seconds of being turned out, so we compromise at every other day In the winter he’s partially clipped and barely sees a rug unless it is very, very cold or prolonged cold and wet.

I say he’s in light work – he probably does one or two sessions a week schooling either involving pole work or jumping. Our main discipline is hacking and we hack between three to five days a week at mainly trot with canter over hills and different terrain. He’s currently hacks about 15-25 miles a week at this time of year, but I’m hoping to increase this distance and do a few longer rides at the weekend in the summer. Its not a huge amount of work, but I know of others that do less & think their horses are in medium or hard work ...!

There’s literally no way I’d feed any more, he just doesn’t need it. But I feed no where near the 'recommended' amount according to the instructions on the back of the feed bag or probably any feed company ...

 

[Asha]

Personally I think its horses for courses. Feed the horse in front of you, and not the breed.

My ID's had safe and sound over the winter, just so I could give them a warm feed after being out. Now, they get nothing, just out at night and in during the day and fed plenty of haylage.

My mare who has just had a foal, was and is being given a stud balancer, plus as much haylage as the can eat ( in at night and out in the day) I gave my good doer ID mare stud balancer too, I just feel its important you give them the right nutrients at this vital time.

My eventer, and the sjer ( both ID xWB) are given nothing at the minute and coping very well. Over the winter they did have, and needed a little extra, so had some linseed and chaff.

 

[HeresHoping]

I do think that there are a growing population of people who get a native/cob type and never have the time to exercise it enough to keep it trim and healthy. They try to fit it into their busy lives of work and children/social etc and wonder why it is fat!.

I see it all the time on the native forums/groups what to feed this fat animal and what supplements will help it lose weight and give it more oomph.

The pony just needs working!

I think nail's head is hit here.

I follow a few barefoot pages as mine is without shoes. Every other post is 'what do I feed, he/she's getting fat'. My stock answer has always been, before delving into the food, is 'how much exercise is he/she getting?' The excuses for not being out there at least 5 times per week are superb. But I'd say, on average, most things are being ridden or worked no more than three times per week. And then for 30 minutes tops.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

I am in a real predicament at the moment. I have a suspected PSSM2 horse who needs his supplements of Alcar, Salt, MgO & Vit E oil so has a handful of speedibeet to carry that. He's had to have his shoes off as his hind feet are dreadful - he can't be fed a hoof supplement as it makes his PSSM flare up. He is a seriously good doer so is in on 12 hour soaked hay during the day and out at night on a bare field with 4 sheep and still came in with pulses in his hind feet last night so the muzzle is going back on. He needs to be out for his PSSM & feet yet even in a bare paddock, there is too much grass. I long for the days where we used to take their shoes off in march and leave them out in a field till July and not worry about them!!!!

 

[HeresHoping]

I am in a real predicament at the moment. I have a suspected PSSM2 horse who needs his supplements of Alcar, Salt, MgO & Vit E oil so has a handful of speedibeet to carry that. He's had to have his shoes off as his hind feet are dreadful - he can't be fed a hoof supplement as it makes his PSSM flare up. He is a seriously good doer so is in on 12 hour soaked hay during the day and out at night on a bare field with 4 sheep and still came in with pulses in his hind feet last night so the muzzle is going back on. He needs to be out for his PSSM & feet yet even in a bare paddock, there is too much grass. I long for the days where we used to take their shoes off in march and leave them out in a field till July and not worry about them!!!!

I suspect that it is not that there is too much grass but the fact that the grass is stressed because it is so short and therefore producing sugars at a rate of knots. I had this very issue last year just after I had taken my mare barefoot. She was muzzled. I needed her to be out and moving. In the end she went in a different field with longer grass to nanny a new horse that just wanted to play all the time and almost immediately hooves improved, and she stopped looking like someone had stuck a straw up her bum and blown her up. Is that an option for you? Older field with longer grass, but muzzled?

 

[SEL]

I would love to feed just grass and hay - I have feed envy of people who can do that! Its not even as if I have a skinny horse because the mare is a hippo. Sadly a hippo who can't tolerate sugar so is muzzled and fed soaked hay.

I've reduced hard feed down to oat chaff, kwik beet and copra (for winter). The skinny draft gets a bucket full and 2 enormous nets of dry hay or haylage and the hippo just gets enough to hide the taste of her very expensive powders. I did try just feeding oat chaff, but could practically see the £££ disappearing when she hurled the bucket with 10000iU of ridiculously expensive vitamin E powder into her bed in a huff.

I was sat in the waiting room at the vets last week scanning through one of the magazines and my completely non-horsey OH pointed out that most of the show cobs were fatter than the hippo.

 

[Merrymoles]

It's called marketing! Convince people who know no better that their horse needs expensive feed and supplements and Bob's yer uncle

I've just spent £20 on feed which we reckon will last my 15.2 Irish cob and his 16.2 ID mate about four months. They each get a handful of chaff a day, mine to carry his salt which a) stops his skin being so sensitive and b) seems to help keep his brain sane, and the ID to carry his supplement for a compromised gut. The other bag was fibre nuggets which we use as treats or, heaven forfend, if one has to have box rest as they make nice sloppy "porridge", so that will probably last six months.

Both are only in light work, even though they usually work five or six days a week (ID currently off games with an abscess but about to come back into work). We watch the ID's weight because he is an old man but he is thriving on his current regime and looks better than he did five years ago. Realistically, neither of them need anything more than grass at this time of year, of which we have plenty, and our riding regime is to ensure they don't get too fat (and in my horse's case, also keeps him saner). We mostly hack but we do have a school and, if short of time, I lunge occasionally. I realised my lad is fitter than I thought when he cantered non-stop for 20 minutes on Wednesday night - the grass must definitely be coming through.

I agree that time to exercise enough is a challenge for many people - it is for me - but you can do a lot in 20 minutes if you plan.

 

[meleeka]

I was only having a conversation this morning about feeds. Mine aren't fed great quality hay and their grazing is seriously reduced so they do get a small low calorie chaff and a Balancer. They also would usually have a track by now, which keeps them much trimmer than without. Hay is in teeny holed nets a small holed nets so it lasts a long time.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I have natives, they get 2 x feeds a day in winter; tinies get a dessert spoon of hi fi lite drizzled with 6 pony nuts, my bigger one not much more.
This is mainly so they turn up in the dark and can be easily checked, also, giving tiny persons a mini feed helps if I ever need to give them oral meds.

Rock on to now and they are just having breakfasts since mid March, so Tiny Fuzzy has her meds, Mini Fuzzy not to be left out, and am now only just starting to give my ride some energy food, the latter purely as work rate has vastly increased in last 6 weeks and I feel she needs more.

I feed according to type and work, or meds needed

I have a lot of hay over, haven't put any out in fields this winter and only small amounts over night has been given.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The problem is with a really good doer you have to restrict their access to grass and they cant eat ad lib hay, so they end up on a hugely restricted diet and then they do need a decent vitamin and mineral supplement to compensate, which entails a small feed to carry it.

Lovely photo!

Tbh, I'm not sure that natives etc *do* need a balancer. They have evolved to eat very poor quality forage, adlib

When my Draft mare was on a diet, she had her ration of hay and trugs full of oat straw chaff to fill up on, overnight. I find that horses allowed adlib forage regulate their own intake. The trick is to make sure that they don't get too much from the forage. Of course it's easier for us because the horses are kept ast home but we don't use balancers. Over the years, I have found that supplements cause more problems than they solve.

 

[tatty_v]

My connie has grass and hay. My only concession to feed is the tiniest handful of happy hoof with a splash of water when he comes in from the field - not required but he looks forward to it so it makes him easier to catch! He could honestly exist on fresh air and is worked at least 5 times a week to keep the waistline under control...

 

[windand rain]

mine are fed year round a handful of chaff to carry supplements. I do however limit grazing year round so they have food all the time but hopefully not much sugar. I do like them to get thin in winter this year has been a bit hard as the grass has never stopped growing. I am often asked how to feed to get get more oomph in a highland my stock answer is get it fitter and slimmer. Cut down any food to the minimum and school them to respond to the leg you cannot change the docile lazy temperament by feeding anything but you can by schooling them to get off your leg.