Feeding trolls and Christmas cheer

[Bernster]

Whilst this isn’t strictly C&T, it is a response to the tension thread that is busily spiralling out of control on here, and which has made me think about forums, social media and debate generally.

I keep imagining what it would be like in real life 🤔. I and a few others would have ventured in, tried to mediate a bit, said ‘alright now everyone, calm down’ and then I’d have shrugged my shoulders and wandered off muttering under my breath. Would others have stayed in there, pointy fingers and hand gestures at the ready? Some bystanders would have come over, interested in what was going on, tried to engage in debate, and then got a mince pie in the face. And, horrible as it sounds, maybe some people are getting upset and crying, and feeling picked on, and that makes me sad to think about.

On a more general note, what is it about social media that brings out such odd behaviour? And why do people troll, I never get that. But like someone else has said, it’s like picking a scab, I can’t help going back to that thread for another look.

And on a happier note, it is true that there is lots to like about this forum, and we shouldn’t forget how positive and supportive it can be. So everyone I hope you all enjoy your lovely horses and I wish you all a healthy and happy christmas! 🎄🎁🎉

 

[paddi22]

I think if people want to find offence in something they will. I've posted on stuff a load of times and people have slated what i've said. But they are perfectly entitled to. I think the football quote sums it up best 'play the ball, not the man' So argue and pick apart the point, not the person.

 

[albeg]

Love the fancy dress B! Though I thought from the thumbnail that the orange van was part of the outfit! 😂

I think part of the reason for the odd behaviour is the level of anonymity, for the most part the majority don't know who the person behind the user name is. As for trolling, I don't get it either.

Totally agree with paddi's comment, pick apart the point. And don't take it personally when someone picks apart your point, either put forwars your argument or walk away if you feel it's getting personal. Hit the unwatch button so you don't get the notifications (maybe that's the problem, since the changeover we get notifications when someone comments on something we've commented on so it's more in our faces).

 

[Red-1]

Love the fancy dress B! Though I thought from the thumbnail that the orange van was part of the outfit! 😂

I think part of the reason for the odd behaviour is the level of anonymity, for the most part the majority don't know who the person behind the user name is. As for trolling, I don't get it either.

Totally agree with paddi's comment, pick apart the point. And don't take it personally when someone picks apart your point, either put forwars your argument or walk away if you feel it's getting personal. Hit the unwatch button so you don't get the notifications (maybe that's the problem, since the changeover we get notifications when someone comments on something we've commented on so it's more in our faces).

You don't have to have notifications, you can go to settings somewhere and turn them off. I used to get an email at midnight telling me if people had commented on a post I had, but I switched that off too. I now only get notifications if someone directly likes a comment of mine, or directly quotes a comment of mine.

Don't ask me how I did it, just found it distracting at night so pressed every button in some menu or other and the option to switch notifications off came up.

I don't 'get' trolls either. I do find that often the clue is in the name, or some people change IDs and swear blind that they have not, yet are very recognisable. I detest the part where people pretend to be someone they are not, it creates confusion in me, and that feels uncomfortable.

I also hate the ones where people tell lies, and then you think you must have remembered some part of the back story wrong, so you check previous posts and it is all different... then you are accused of being a stalker when you were trying to get the facts straight to help someone!

I still do sometimes look back if something seems hinky, after someone asked for help, I said what I thought was right from the information given on that thread, then someone else quoted some information from a previous thread that made what I said totally incorrect.

I have a couple of times had people say things that smarted. I either thought about it and decided I may be wrong and learned from the experience), or closed the thread and did not look at it again! No need for tears in the breakfast cereal.

 

[albeg]

You don't have to have notifications, you can go to settings somewhere and turn them off. I used to get an email at midnight telling me if people had commented on a post I had, but I switched that off too. I now only get notifications if someone directly likes a comment of mine, or directly quotes a comment of mine.

Don't ask me how I did it, just found it distracting at night so pressed every button in some menu or other and the option to switch notifications off came up.

Oh yeah, I just meant that the default is for notifications and emails whenever someome replies! 👍

 

[milliepops]

Totally agree with picking apart the point and not the person. I try to do that in real life, for sure, and especially here. Trolls usually fail at that one, as I think we have seen in the most recent example.

I also love HHO, I find it a friendly community of generous, funny and intelligent people and the one thing that raises my blood pressure (because trolls do not) is to see people that join and immediately start harping on about how it's so vile here. Can't quite understand the logic there. I have met loads of HHOers IRL and know many others, kind and lovely people and as such I want to defend this group because i know that good things happen here.

what makes me keep returning to posts like the one this week, probably stems from my own childhood, I was relentlessly bullied physically and verbally and it took a long time for me to find my place in the world and my voice. And now I absolutely can't abide people that twist words, act unreasonably and go on the attack as a form of defense, particularly in the face of what was an entirely reasonable adult discussion. As a child I had to learn how to quell the rising sense of powerlessness, fear and shame, and now I feel confident that I can usually respond in a calm manner keeping my own emotions under control and letting the angry tirades wash over me. So yes I will wade in now and then, call it making up for lost time

 

[scats]

The real life situation is interesting Bernster. If a new kid arrived in one of my classes and asked a question and one or two disagreed with them, it would probably be fine. New kid might get a bit annoyed that they didn’t get people agreeing with them, but it probably wouldn’t go anywhere. But if then the rest of the class jumped in stating how entertaining they were finding the whole thing/leaping to the defence of their classmates/telling new kid she needs to listen to the experienced classmates and so on, new kid might feel that she has been set upon by the pack and will probably lash out. Of course, her lashing out will enrage the other classmates further, and they will continue on, more people chiming in on the way. The pack grows. The new kid feels backed into a corner and distressed by it. The original question is forgotten, people are just throwing insults left, right and centre and no-one is gaining anything. That’s not my cup of tea and I don’t like it.

Life is too short. In a world where you can be anything, be kind.

 

[Bernster]

Whereas I’m the opposite. I’m generally very non combative, want everyone to get along and like me, and can’t stand hostility. But on the flip side, would def lose it if I felt people were having a go at me. I couldn’t keep my cool in the face of rudeness!

I have however found that even what is the mildest criticism, or disagreement, to my posts, my first reaction is negative and a bit defensive. Doesn’t happen often and I do catch myself and read them again with a more constructive approach and then I’ve been able to respond in a much more measured way. I can read posts completely differently depending what inner voice i use!

 

[Bernster]

Yes scats, the ‘no one gaining anything’ (apart from getting wound up or distressed) bothers me, although there are some real nuggets of info and discussion in there.

 

[albeg]

I have however found that even what is the mildest criticism, or disagreement, to my posts, my first reaction is negative and a bit defensive. Doesn’t happen often and I do catch myself and read them again with a more constructive approach and then I’ve been able to respond in a much more measured way. I can read posts completely differently depending what inner voice i use!

Text is a tricky thing! I find it's sometimes very easy to read with a negative slant, to assume someone is having a dig.

 

[Cortez]

Well, the internet and social media are a weird world, and a new one so it'll take a while to really understand what is going on with the way interactions evolve. I don't think anyone responds quite the same as they would face to face where social norms and signals are instinctive and subtle. The pure nastiness of some people as often displayed is a surprise to me, although I suppose it shouldn't be, but I prefer a certain level of decorum combined with truth and helpfulness leveled with honesty. Trolls are mostly looking for attention (this is the kindest thing I can think to say), but the opportunity to also be spiteful, angry, mocking and generally shit-stirring has to play a large part. Some strange, sad people in the world.

 

[milliepops]

I can read posts completely differently depending what inner voice i use!

oh definitely. And if you know you are that kind of person (i am too) it can really help to pause momentarily to rethink your initial reaction and just check if it was definitely written in that voice! I definitely always had a habit of reading everything as criticism, I think it takes practice and strength to get out of that negative way of thinking, it's really hard to do but worthwhile.

and in a funny way this does link to riding, for me at least, because around the time I started to review my instinctive reactions to comments was about the same time as I was able to start cutting myself some slack with riding, i used to get so frustrated by not being able to do things or knowing how to fix a problem that I was my own biggest critic constantly kicking myself. so no wonder I felt like everyone else was getting at me, lol!

I think the only troll that I have found properly divisive here was the old Mrs Norris. Anyone remember that? that was a bit different because IIRC that was a homegrown persona that was "manned" by various forum members. THOSE were the days of cliques!

 

[Goldenstar]

I don’t like angry unkind people .
I hate name calling and fail to see why you should ingnore it .
I would have cheerfully engaged with the poster in the other thread , but when it came to the name calling and bleating bully and inferring that othe people like that two very good posters are bullies it’s wrong .
Then follow it with some really nasty uncalled for name calling it not want this forum is about .
That poster would love to induce me to lose my temper they can try all they like it won’t happen.

 

[Cortez]

I don’t like angry unkind people .
I hate name calling and fail to see why you should ingnore it .
I would have cheerfully engaged with the poster in the other thread , but when it came to the name calling and bleating bully and inferring that othe people like that two very good posters are bullies it’s wrong .
Then follow it with some really nasty uncalled for name calling it not want this forum is about .
That poster would love to induce me to lose my temper they can try all they like it won’t happen.

Precisely. It's the rudeness and childish name calling above all that is hard to ignore. But at this stage it really is counterproductive to react and only "feeds the troll" what it wants - more attention.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

The real life situation is interesting Bernster. If a new kid arrived in one of my classes and asked a question and one or two disagreed with them, it would probably be fine. New kid might get a bit annoyed that they didn’t get people agreeing with them, but it probably wouldn’t go anywhere. But if then the rest of the class jumped in stating how entertaining they were finding the whole thing/leaping to the defence of their classmates/telling new kid she needs to listen to the experienced classmates and so on, new kid might feel that she has been set upon by the pack and will probably lash out. Of course, her lashing out will enrage the other classmates further, and they will continue on, more people chiming in on the way. The pack grows. The new kid feels backed into a corner and distressed by it. The original question is forgotten, people are just throwing insults left, right and centre and no-one is gaining anything. That’s not my cup of tea and I don’t like it.

Life is too short. In a world where you can be anything, be kind.

Your description comparing to a similar situation in real life is spot on IMO. Usually it isnt very much at all to do with if you agree with anyone's particular opinion or not on a forum that is so unpleasant to read and causes distress, after all that is fair debate and what forum life is about I would have thought? it is how some react to the differences of opinion and then turn the situation into exactly how you describe interaction between schoolchildren. Shameful to witness no matter what side of any given disagreement is and I will not apologise for stepping in to defend that person backed into the corner on any thread or IRL.

 

[Mule]

I don't understand why people would make up different user names and pretend to be someone else. I don't see the point. If I have something to say, I say it. I'll be tactful but straightforward.

 

[milliepops]

The analogy of the children in the classroom only holds for as long as all the people behave like children though. in the case of children, the problem is that an adult needs to step in to bring back some kind of reasonable behaviour.

whereas the expectation between adults is that they behave as such, many trolls are eloquent enough to hold a reasonable discussion, that's usually how it starts off after all. Therefore people begin to engage in an adult way. The descent to childish insults and lashing out is almost exclusively one sided. And that's what the other posters object to, and that's why trolls get brought up on it. I find it a bit weird to leap in to a troll's defense, other than if it becomes apparent that the person has some kind of undisclosed mental issue and doesn't actually know how they got themselves into that "corner".

If we all stooped low enough to call each other names, as children often do, then that's the time that admin would step in and either delete or lock the thread. It used to happen quite often! I think a number of people pressed the button on the latest thread, but presumably admin didn't see any need to react(either that or they're on the xmas sherry already ) I think the thread has stayed broadly on topic, other than a small nonsensical diversion as becomes common in these kinds of OTT threads.

 

[Wheels]

What would I do if I came across a discussion like that in real life? It would depend - then I could see for myself if the starter of the discussion was actually in tears, the age of that person (who I am assuming is a child and a troll but of course I may be mistaken). If the person was genuinely upset I would step in but I think if that was the case it wouldn't have gone on for so long in real life because I doubt any of the posters involved would actually intend to make someone cry.

 

[Tihamandturkey]

Your description comparing to a similar situation in real life is spot on IMO. Usually it isnt very much at all to do with if you agree with anyone's particular opinion or not on a forum that is so unpleasant to read and causes distress, after all that is fair debate and what forum life is about I would have thought? it is how some react to the differences of opinion and then turn the situation into exactly how you describe interaction between schoolchildren. Shameful to witness no matter what side of any given disagreement is and I will not apologise for stepping in to defend that person backed into the corner on any thread or IRL.

Well said

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The thing is though, if it really was real life and there was a genuine Troll, it wouldn't be as effective. The Troll would say that they were in tears etc... but everyone would be able to see that they were laughing/smirking/whatever. The element of being unseen does seem to be vital for proper, true Troll threads.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Merry Christmas, OP.

I stopped reading the thread in question after the first few posts, I just couldn't be bothered with it, as it seemed that it had not been started to stimulate a discussion but to justify one person's pov.

I can never understand why people post things such as 'please let this thread die', or ' let's not all be horrid to each other'. If you don't like the thread don't read it and certainly don't participate.

I can't see the point of inventing a new persona to cause trouble but I am fairly sure that there is one poster, on a different thread, who has invented a 2nd username just to support her own pov in the face of overwhelming opposition and although it makes me laugh, I can at least understand the reason behind it.

 

[Red-1]

Merry Christmas, OP.

,,,

I can't see the point of inventing a new persona to cause trouble but I am fairly sure that there is one poster, on a different thread, who has invented a 2nd username just to support her own pov in the face of overwhelming opposition and although it makes me laugh, I can at least understand the reason behind it.

I have seen this before, in fact one fast got weird as the poster forgot which device was for which persona and posted the wrong thing from the wrong user name...

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have seen this before, in fact one fast got weird as the poster forgot which device was for which persona and posted the wrong thing from the wrong user name...

 

[Snitch]

I can't see the point of inventing a new persona to cause trouble but I am fairly sure that there is one poster, on a different thread, who has invented a 2nd username just to support her own pov in the face of overwhelming opposition and although it makes me laugh, I can at least understand the reason behind it.

Yes, quite bonkers. But still, it is entertaining, especially when people are rumbled. But on another level, it’s quite sad.

 

[DabDab]

I think a lot of the way these things start does also happen in real life. I think trying to start a discussion with you and your own horse as the opening example is always a bit dangerous unless you have very broad shoulders, because it is hard to have a proper discussion without it feeling a bit too personal.

I think the problem with experienced people responding to certain topics is that their thinking on a subject is generally very established and so they jump to the end point without explaining the line of thought that goes with it because to them, with a wealth of experience behind them, it seems obvious. And that can seem very abrupt to someone who simply hasn't thought through the topic to the same extent. It's something that I'm a bit over aware of because I'm terrible for doing it IRL, particularly at work ('look, this is the answer, obviously, why are you faffing about discussing nonsense' ).

There are all sorts of behaviour on the forum that I wince at (not from my memory ever directed at me though), but I generally just pass on by and don't comment, but it is a very small percentage of posts. There are many many absolutely lovely people on this forum and in general I think it is a wonderful, diverse community.

I don't understand trolls really, but then again it doesn't really bother me that they exist. You get a few Billy bullshits irl too and as long as they are not causing any real harm they tend to be quite entertaining. And on the flipside, I don't particularly understand the people that only ever post on threads of certain topics because they think there may be a troll or some general drama to be had - see a wildfire and dash over to pour some petrol on it sorts.

 

[milliepops]

"Billy Bullshit" DD I love that and I'm stealing it
met a few IRL lately looking round at yards, what a great name. Smile & nod, and walk away, is my approach with them

Good point about leaping straight to the conclusion rather than spelling out the full reasoning too. I definitely think that's a problem at work, sometimes you are thinking at 100 miles an hour, too, and it's hard to get the spoken or written word to keep up!

 

[Rowreach]

I have been absent-ish for the past couple of days, and appear to have completely missed the drama

The odd troll doesn't bother me, they can be quite entertaining, and there certainly aren't as many about these days on here. I prefer a troll to the type of regular poster who simply can't say anything nice about anything and generally exists to create sh!tstorms ...

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Meh. I just stick anyone too annoying on Ignore and leave them there. The new system means that you can't see their content when others quote it either.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Meh. I just stick anyone too annoying on Ignore and leave them there. The new system means that you can't see their content when others quote it either.

Agreed, and the new format is excellent in removing the content

Back to Bernster, I usually will join in on debates, but generally am just a lurker when trolls or persons get abusive, but on rare occasions I'm like Tiny Fuzzy and just have to stick my muzzle in somehow.
In real life I don't like those who will sit outside a comp arena pointing out issues, nor those who abuse their horses within my peripheral view. The former I stay away from, the latter are the ones I'll attempt to stop.

I'll raise you all a glass of Christmas cheer 🍷

 

[Rowreach]

Ah, I've just been and caught up (although I didn't bother with a few of the pages in the middle). Quite glad I missed that one. Peace and goodwill anyone?