Feeling a bit down, told i must reserve a puppy at 2 weeks old

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Shady

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I lost my amazing Weimaraner Loki (aka Chuffy Mc Nubbles) recently and i can honestly say that i miss him as much today as i did the day i said goodbye to him. The house has lost all it's life and energy and he was the maddest idiot imaginable .
I was delighted and amazed when i found a breeder near me who had his litter sister and a very nice stud , the OH bravely phoned and we were offered first choice from the litter due mid July. Iv'e been quietly excited about the prospect of having a wee mad thing back in the house and have been waiting for a call to say how many pups are showing by xray .
Instead i got a message this morning saying that at 15 days old the pups will be advertised and i must choose one and reserve it by contract and 300 euro's before this time. I just don't want to do this, am i wrong? i don't know this breeder but i do know that 2 weeks is just a baby, nobody surely knows what quality/size or even health it's going to be at this age.
I feel a bit gutted about the whole thing, like it's about money and nothing else, the contract is binding too, what happens if i arrive and chosen pup is timid or small or god forbid, ' the enforcer '
I have written back to him saying i am not happy with this as i want a companion not a breeding dog etc and i would not buy this way, 4/5 weeks minimum would be ok but not less. He replied that it was up to me but i would have to take a chance if i didn't want to reserve at 15 days, i haven't responded yet.
Am i wrong ? Weimaraners are challenging dogs at the best of times, i think i would be a mental case if i took a chance like this???
 
If the breeder has a waiting and willing market place for his pups, then and if you want one, you've no choice but to comply. It isn't unusual and I've bought and paid for pups at the scanning stage (not x-ray!).

Alternatively, you could always ask him to reserve a bitch pup for you and take what's left. At 8 weeks, generally pups are pups and short of colour preferences, they're all just about the same! When anyone asks me how I decide upon the pup that I'm going to keep from a litter, I always quote Bert Gripton …. "I let everyone take what they want and I keep what's left. They always leave the best one behind, I've found"!!

Good Luck! :)

Alec.
 
Many breeders I know have them reserved from birth - it's quite normal I'm afraid. Although surely there must be a way to back out if there isn't a suitable pup?
 
Alec Swan said:
If the breeder has a waiting and willing market place for his pups, then and if you want one, you've no choice but to comply. It isn't unusual and I've bought and paid for pups at the scanning stage (not x-ray!).

Alternatively, you could always ask him to reserve a bitch pup for you and take what's left. At 8 weeks, generally pups are pups and short of colour preferences, they're all just about the same! When anyone asks me how I decide upon the pup that I'm going to keep from a litter, I always quote Bert Gripton …. "I let everyone take what they want and I keep what's left. They always leave the best one behind, I've found"!!

Good Luck! :)

Alec.
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Thanks Alec :)
I don't really agree with you that at 8 weeks all pups are mostly the same, i bought Loki when he was that age from a litter of 11 and the difference in size, quality and temperament surprised me and the breeder had very definite views about each puppy. Perhaps i am a bit old fashioned now and the world has moved to a point where people don't want to see what they are buying and will take a chance on what they end up with
 
apercrumbie said:
Many breeders I know have them reserved from birth - it's quite normal I'm afraid. Although surely there must be a way to back out if there isn't a suitable pup?
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I thought that at the worst i could choose 'a male ' from how ever many there were and then go there and choose properly but i have to choose from the collar colour and bar a health issue i must buy that particular puppy
 
I would feel exactly like you Shady. Unless I was desperate for a pup from that particular pairing and/or knew the breeder really well and trusted them to choose a pup based on my requirements and lifestyle (and even then I wouldn't want a pup chosen until around 5-6 weeks) then I would probably walk away.

In my experience, booking a pup and even possibly paying a small deposit when the pups are born is usual, but I wouldn't want to choose a pup at two weeks of age - and certainly wouldn't want someone I don't know at all choosing for me.
 
Sorry for the loss of your other Weim too :( Saying goodbye to a best friend is the most difficult thing in the world - and a house most definitely is not a home without a dog x
 
WorkingGSD said:
Sorry for the loss of your other Weim too :( Saying goodbye to a best friend is the most difficult thing in the world - and a house most definitely is not a home without a dog x
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Thank you WGSD :) i didn't post on here at the time, i couldn't believe how much losing him hurt, he was the maddest thing ever but such good fun and so loyal and loving. I tried his breeder first of all but he had sadly died which is a loss over here, he'd been a Weim breeder for over 30 years and always tried to pair a person with the puppy. I guess i am a little disappointed that this breeder doesn't feel the same commitment to both puppy and buyer. xx
 
I am sorry to hear of the loss of Loki.

I have always asked people to confirm their reservation as soon as the litter is born, although I tended not to take a deposit, or if I did just a token one, so wouldn't have a problem with that. However it does seem strange that they are asking you to make your choice at 2 weeks old. That is quite early , they will barely have their eyes open, and with weims I guess there isnt even colour preference to go on. In fact when I have had people make a preliminary choice at around 4 or 5 weeks I have often steered them in the direction of a different pup at 7 or 8 weeks as the characters start to develop, as well as the fact that if the breeder is wanting to keep one they probably won't have made their own choice at 2 weeks. Have you asked the breeder why they want you to choose your pup so early ?
 
Exactly MM, I put my name to an IWS pup as soon as the litter was born, but as they are identical at birth, bar sex, and even at 8 weeks there is very little to differentiate them, when it came time to collect the pup I allowed the breeder to choose for me. She knew exactly what I wanted, a pet, and she knew the characters of each pup by then. I have to say, her choice was spot on and Smurph was a cracking dog from Day 1. Im not sure Id be too keen to put my name to a specific pup that early but "her litter, her rules" I suppose.
 
So sorry to hear you lost your boy Shady :(

I'm with you on this, I wouldn't be happy about choosing a pup till at least 6 weeks+ unless I knew the breeder well and the pup was exactly what I wanted from that particular breeding. Even then, I'd like to have some choice :)
 
Honestly... you've lived with a close relative of /every/ pup in this litter... how risky do you think it will be? If you really believe that pups of this litter may have among them some you wouldn't enjoy living with then surely you are looking at the wrong source anyway?

I assume you're not looking to breed(?) so I'd already expect you to be having 'less good' animals from however many anyway (it would be irresponsible of the breeder to do otherwise). So, 'pet' grade animal... what matters?
 
Nobody would be able to pick a breeding animal at two weeks old either. Why do people regard 'pet' animals as somehow of less value than show, breeding or working dogs? Being a pet is the most important job there is, this is a dog that should be healthy and long lived, of good character and environmentally sound. Not a cast off or lesser animal.
Yes some show or working dogs don't make the grade but I disagree that they are 'just' pets.

I also don't agree they're all the same at that age otherwise why would anyone select a pup for any purpose. Everything I saw in my pup when I first saw him as a pup (I didn't own him initially) came to bear when he was older, for good or ill.

Reservations are one thing but I think it's unreasonable to ask anyone to *select* a pup at two weeks old.

Sorry for your loss Shady. If you're set on this breeding then I'd grin and bear it but it does seem stringent to me.
 
Being a pet is an important job. I have and will (probably) only ever have pet animals. But I do disagree that there are not different (and yes, higher) standards of health etc for breeding. I mean, in an ideal world, we'd all have fantastic animals sitting around neutered on our sofas (etc). But if I had to choose to breed from one animal and have another as a pet I'd pick the 'better' one to breed from for the sake of the breed/puppies.

Sure, 2 weeks is young, but really I don;t see a huge issue. How much time do you expect to spend with an older litter before selecting? I'm guessing less than an hour... which is hardly going to provide a balanced view.
 
MurphysMinder said:
I am sorry to hear of the loss of Loki.

I have always asked people to confirm their reservation as soon as the litter is born, although I tended not to take a deposit, or if I did just a token one, so wouldn't have a problem with that. However it does seem strange that they are asking you to make your choice at 2 weeks old. That is quite early , they will barely have their eyes open, and with weims I guess there isnt even colour preference to go on. In fact when I have had people make a preliminary choice at around 4 or 5 weeks I have often steered them in the direction of a different pup at 7 or 8 weeks as the characters start to develop, as well as the fact that if the breeder is wanting to keep one they probably won't have made their own choice at 2 weeks. Have you asked the breeder why they want you to choose your pup so early ?
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Hi MM
I have asked why so early and he has just said that that's how it is here in France. True to an extent from what i can research and it does make me question the ethics of this sort of breeder . I agree that leaving a deposit is fine and shows a commitment to buy but to choose from the colour of a collar is very questionable, the collars could be swapped at any time
 
MyBoyChe and ChilliPup ( thank you ChilliPup :)
These are my thoughts too, when i bought Loki the breeder had reserved one to keep, one had an excellent head, one was HUGE, one was finer and Loki just wanted a lap to sit on! he was very affectionate and the breeder felt we would do well together, he could never sit next to you without a paw touching or his head in your lap, but thankfully he had no separation issues or guarding traits. He did however have a horrible habit of dragging knickers into the kitchen when i had company and waving them around, my bad for being a slob! xx
 
GirlFriday said:
Honestly... you've lived with a close relative of /every/ pup in this litter... how risky do you think it will be? If you really believe that pups of this litter may have among them some you wouldn't enjoy living with then surely you are looking at the wrong source anyway?

I assume you're not looking to breed(?) so I'd already expect you to be having 'less good' animals from however many anyway (it would be irresponsible of the breeder to do otherwise). So, 'pet' grade animal... what matters?
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related to the mum, dad is an unknown and it can make a huge difference who the stud is
I don't really understand this comment GirlFriday , how would the breeder even know at 2 weeks who was ' good' or ' pet '
 
GirlFriday said:
Being a pet is an important job. I have and will (probably) only ever have pet animals. But I do disagree that there are not different (and yes, higher) standards of health etc for breeding. I mean, in an ideal world, we'd all have fantastic animals sitting around neutered on our sofas (etc). But if I had to choose to breed from one animal and have another as a pet I'd pick the 'better' one to breed from for the sake of the breed/puppies.

Sure, 2 weeks is young, but really I don;t see a huge issue. How much time do you expect to spend with an older litter before selecting? I'm guessing less than an hour... which is hardly going to provide a balanced view.
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I'd spend a lot longer than an hour to select a dog that I want to live with me for over a decade. And no I don't think pet owners should accept lower health standards....why on earth should a family accept/pay for a dog that may have (hypothetically and not talking about this case) a nervy temperament, travel sickness, allergies, unsoundness...all things that will impact on a pet/family life.
I'd still like to see anyone pick 'the best' breeding animal at two weeks old.
 
I would stick with the original plan and see the puppies when you want to. Sure some or even all may have been sold but you buying what you want how you want. Perhaps another litter will come up with a bit more flexibility. I am not one to rush at things.

I'm sorry for the loss of Loki.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Nobody would be able to pick a breeding animal at two weeks old either. Why do people regard 'pet' animals as somehow of less value than show, breeding or working dogs? Being a pet is the most important job there is, this is a dog that should be healthy and long lived, of good character and environmentally sound. Not a cast off or lesser animal.
Yes some show or working dogs don't make the grade but I disagree that they are 'just' pets.

I also don't agree they're all the same at that age otherwise why would anyone select a pup for any purpose. Everything I saw in my pup when I first saw him as a pup (I didn't own him initially) came to bear when he was older, for good or ill.

Reservations are one thing but I think it's unreasonable to ask anyone to *select* a pup at two weeks old.

Sorry for your loss Shady. If you're set on this breeding then I'd grin and bear it but it does seem stringent to me.
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Thanks CC , i don't think i am willing to grin and bear it :) , it's too important and Weims can be very different. This is a
'chasse x beauty( show?) mating rather than pure chasse lines. Loki was chasse. They are very different here( or should be )
I have spoken to another breeder now who is also a vet! it's possible that he has a really , really nice puppy available as the buyer is having marital problems and may not take the pup( he would prefer this i think), he's not of Loki's line but he's lovely and i can see already that he is going to have a very handsome head!!! i won't know til Monday. x
 
I pulled out from a health tested spaniel litter as I had to reserve and put money down the day they were born! All about money. The joke is she then had to advertise most of the litter on a Facebook site. Always go with your gut feeling - it's usually right.
 
Archangel said:
I would stick with the original plan and see the puppies when you want to. Sure some or even all may have been sold but you buying what you want how you want. Perhaps another litter will come up with a bit more flexibility. I am not one to rush at things.

I'm sorry for the loss of Loki.
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Thanks Angelcake :):)
You are right of course!( but now i really want Mr Vet to phone me so i can see his puppy :D) lol that sounds rude :D
 
Shady said:
Thanks CC , i don't think i am willing to grin and bear it :) , it's too important and Weims can be very different. This is a
'chasse x beauty( show?) mating rather than pure chasse lines. Loki was chasse. They are very different here( or should be )
I have spoken to another breeder now who is also a vet! it's possible that he has a really , really nice puppy available as the buyer is having marital problems and may not take the pup( he would prefer this i think), he's not of Loki's line but he's lovely and i can see already that he is going to have a very handsome head!!! i won't know til Monday. x
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Fingers crossed for this pup, as it sounds like it may be a much better prospect all round.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I'd spend a lot longer than an hour to select a dog that I want to live with me for over a decade. And no I don't think pet owners should accept lower health standards....why on earth should a family accept/pay for a dog that may have (hypothetically and not talking about this case) a nervy temperament, travel sickness, allergies, unsoundness...all things that will impact on a pet/family life.
I'd still like to see anyone pick 'the best' breeding animal at two weeks old.
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Couldn't agree more. Being a family or companion dog is one of the most demanding roles for a dog in today's modern society. So much is expected from them. Families and those wanting a companion animal should demand equally high standards of health and temperament as those wanting a worker, sport or show dog.
 
I chose my spaniel at 2 weeks, it helped that she was one of only 2 girls available and I wanted a girl. It could be the case that the breeder only has one boy and your decision is made anyway. The other girl had more white than mine and that was the only basis for me choosing her. By 8 weeks when I picked her up I am not sure I would have chosen her as she looked much more like a show type spaniel - mum was working bred dad show bred - and I was definite I wanted a worker but by then the others had all gone. She grew up much more of a worker, and the 2 week old dog was more representative of what she became than the 8 week old!
 
Patchworkpony said:
I pulled out from a health tested spaniel litter as I had to reserve and put money down the day they were born! All about money. The joke is she then had to advertise most of the litter on a Facebook site. Always go with your gut feeling - it's usually right.
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You are right P and this is what my gut tells me about this breeder and i am sorry that you had that experience :(. I don't know why but it went from him being pleased that i had particularly chosen him , all gushy and oh madame you can have pick of the litter to tough shyte, choose or lose!
Mr Vet has just left me a nice message saying that he has another litter due mid/end July, i can visit any time he is home to see his other dogs and he starts to let people see the pups at 6 weeks, he will reserve earlier but prefers not to, pups leave at 2 1/2 months.He has another male puppy at the moment that he really likes and is torn between keeping so it's possible he may have 2 that i can see next week or i can wait for the next litter
Am feeling a little happier now and all your reply's have helped me a lot
many thanks :):)
 
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