Feeling guilty

laura_nash said:
I've had four dogs and two did genuinely come with all the 'buttons' installed. It's perfectly possible to get one that can slot right in without large amounts of training or exercise (or was before the COVID boom) if you prioritise that over anything else, and in particular over the breed/being pure bred and wanting to get a cute puppy. I have never got a puppy, can't be bothered with the house training.
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Sorry I should have clarified I meant puppies rather than adult dogs necessarily - like people think puppies naturally develop sit/stay/walk nicely on a lead/fetch/not to chew/where to toilet etc. as they grow up rather than owners needing to put any work in to teach them the calmness/obedience etc that they see in dogs like Clodagh's.

We also decided against getting a puppy for our first dog in the end and I don't think we could expect much better from Ivy in terms of how she's fit in to our lives. She always amazes me with her training and how she picks things up despite me also learning as we go! Work to do obviously but we expected that and know if things 'go wrong' it's on us not her.
 
laura_nash said:
I've had four dogs and two did genuinely come with all the 'buttons' installed. It's perfectly possible to get one that can slot right in without large amounts of training or exercise (or was before the COVID boom) if you prioritise that over anything else, and in particular over the breed/being pure bred and wanting to get a cute puppy. I have never got a puppy, can't be bothered with the house training.
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Yes but pups don't come with their own buttons ready installed. The owner has to do the training!
 
Reading your original post again, C, it sounds as though the dog is treating the man of the house as if he is a valuable resource and resource guarding like he might do with any other valuable resource.

I wonder if it would help if the woman of the house took over the dog's day to day care, feeding, rewarding when he gets something right. Doing a little bit of training and making it fun. Exercising if she can manage it.

ETA Still thinking about this, I wonder what he gets from the man that he doesn't from the other members of the household, a feeling of security maybe.
 
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skinnydipper said:
As you know, Clodagh, I'm not into all that alpha nonsense but somebody has to make the decisions and I figure it might as well be me.

I think dogs are happier with routine and structure, knowing where they stand and what is expected of them.
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I don’t bully mine at all, in fact they bully me a lot of the time, but they know GALD. Even Scout has it down pat. Like you say, one of us has to make decisions and it should be me. But in practice is usually Tawny ?
 
skinnydipper said:
Reading your original post again, C, it sounds as though the dog is treating the man of the house as if he is a valuable resource and resource guarding like he might do with any other valuable resource.

I wonder if it would help if the woman of the house took over the dog's day to day care, feeding, rewarding when he gets something right. Doing a little bit of training and making it fun. Exercising if she can manage it.

ETA Still thinking about this, I wonder what he gets from the man that he doesn't from the other members of the household, a feeling of security maybe.
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The man is very laid back, he honestly doesn’t seem to mind what the dog does. I think wife is scared of it now? Only a guess. It takes 2 people to walk it, as it can’t be held otherwise if it sees a cat or anything.
It’s quite a busy house, 6 adults live there so lots of coming and going. My novice take on it is as the dog always has to assess the threat level and no one else does he’s worn out making all those safety decisions.
 
No way is it your fault. I think many people believe that labradors come ready trained. It astonishes me that they think this. Saying that, honestly, our first two were the easiest dogs ever.

Bear astonished a colleague who met him by staying sensibly in the boot-she says her cocker wouldn’t because he is ‘mad’ and Bear is at a word. I had to remind her that he’s 11 and has been trained very consistently over the years. Puppies are a work in progress, the past two weeks, we’ve both had Covid, me then my OH, so walks have been tricky/minimal during the week. They’ve been given lots of kongs/chews/garden activities to keep them mentally stimulated. Mitch went in the hot tub today!

Lots of dogs need occupying: I was unsympathetic when my sil sent me a picture of destruction from her young lab who had been left to do as she liked in the house. Wouldn’t trust mine as far as I could throw them (yet!)
 
Clodagh said:
The man is very laid back, he honestly doesn’t seem to mind what the dog does. I think wife is scared of it now? Only a guess. It takes 2 people to walk it, as it can’t be held otherwise if it sees a cat or anything.
It’s quite a busy house, 6 adults live there so lots of coming and going. My novice take on it is as the dog always has to assess the threat level and no one else does he’s worn out making all those safety decisions.
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6 adults and not one of them can be bothered to look after that dog? What a disgrace. ?
 
Thistle said:
Is this the dog that you messaged me about a few months ago. It seems that they ignored the advice about training amd also the details of the trainers that I passed on too. Poor dog. IIRC he's related to my sons pup too who is turning into a fab young dog.
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It is. The aggression seems to have really ramped up. I passed those trainers details to them but they are looking for one closer to home. Although the one you recommended was only 35 minutes ?‍♀️.
 
Spotherisk said:
Clodagh and I went for a dog walk last week with her 5 month old lab and my 10 month old lurcher, they were both very good boys, no dramas, even managed to whistle my lurcher back when he was stareing into the wood looking for the barking deer, but I was most proud of them in the pub. There must have been a dozen dogs already in there, no trouble and only a couple of barks from those but ours were very good and stayed under the table, and we took it turns to leave them with each other whilst we left the table for a few minutes. The worst that happened was Rew standing on Scout’s head as a handy footstool! ?

I suppose what I’m saying is that you train and hope for good behaviours, sometimes you get it and praise, but you need to be prepared for it to go wrong - either of the dogs could have safely been returned to their car if the pub didn’t work out, as it was we were delighted with them both.
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They are very good. Scout has never been in a pub before, or anywhere with so many people. A walk first helped!
 
It isn’t your fault of course it isn’t. They seem like the type that complain about it rather than actually want to do anything about it. I can’t tolerate people like that. They won’t hear advice because it’s not the advise they want (bit like those horsey folk who spend 500£ getting a physio, saddler, supplement and reki over the internet instead of a vet incase the vet says something bad)

All you can do is wait for them to reach rock bottom and hope that no one is seriously injured when it comes to it.
 
Clodagh said:
They are very good. Scout has never been in a pub before, or anywhere with so many people. A walk first helped!
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Off topic but I always enjoyed taking my GSD Zak to cafes, pubs etc. Despite having spent the first 9 months of his life in a breeding kennel environment, and being exposed to very little outside that specific environment, he just chilled in a busy pub or cafe and often just slept under the table (especially as he got older). Since the pandemic my current two haven’t had the same exposure and so I wouldn’t feel as confident we’d be able to do that without some form of noisy shepherd embarrassment … or maybe it’s that I’ve lost some of my own confidence in busy places.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I have say, I expect that if this dog could find a home with several other dogs, especially if there is a bitch who leads the pack and won't put up with nonsense from him, who can play Labrador games and teach him how to be a good house dog, he would be fine. Mentioning no names;)
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I wouldn’t go there. Mainly because I don’t think he will ever not be dog aggressive under stress and mine get chucked in pick ups with 12 dogs crammed in all in a state of high excitement. I can’t see he would ever cope with that. Also I have no experience with aggressive dogs, I think he is past what I can cope with.
 
Moobli said:
Off topic but I always enjoyed taking my GSD Zak to cafes, pubs etc. Despite having spent the first 9 months of his life in a breeding kennel environment, and being exposed to very little outside that specific environment, he just chilled in a busy pub or cafe and often just slept under the table (especially as he got older). Since the pandemic my current two haven’t had the same exposure and so I wouldn’t feel as confident we’d be able to do that without some form of noisy shepherd embarrassment … or maybe it’s that I’ve lost some of my own confidence in busy places.
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We never take ours anywhere! Days out tend to be dog free.
 
Moobli said:
Eek! ?. I don’t do “dog free” ?
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OH insists that they rule our lives at home we deserve time out. ?. I won’t ever leave them in a car so tbh if we do go out we can’t go into a shop or a property to look round, and I wouldn’t take more than 2 in a pub as it’s not fair on other customers. So it does make sense not to have them. We don’t go on holiday anyway, so that’s not a problem. ?
 
My aunt and uncle had to get a lab put down after it displayed the behaviour you're describing. It escalated to the point that it was going to have my aunt when she was in the house alone

This dog was socialised, trained and exercised and they were experienced dog owners.

I think this one had a bit of miswiring but it's proof that not all labs are the stereotype easy going dogs that they are portrayed as. Of course the majority are lovely but things happen.

When my aunt started being scared of the dog the dog ramped it up. To make matters worse he was a very big lab, oversized I would have said. So if your friends wife is currently scared and the dog knows it sounds like a slippery slope.

Would talking to her and telling her of the dangers of not getting on top of the dog and his training NOW help? Could she talk husband and son into doing something to help her since they seem unmotivated to do it for the dogs benefit?
 
TPO said:
My aunt and uncle had to get a lab put down after it displayed the behaviour you're describing. It escalated to the point that it was going to have my aunt when she was in the house alone

This dog was socialised, trained and exercised and they were experienced dog owners.

I think this one had a bit of miswiring but it's proof that not all labs are the stereotype easy going dogs that they are portrayed as. Of course the majority are lovely but things happen.

When my aunt started being scared of the dog the dog ramped it up. To make matters worse he was a very big lab, oversized I would have said. So if your friends wife is currently scared and the dog knows it sounds like a slippery slope.

Would talking to her and telling her of the dangers of not getting on top of the dog and his training NOW help? Could she talk husband and son into doing something to help her since they seem unmotivated to do it for the dogs benefit?
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I have never known an aggressive lab (to humans) before this one although your post illustrates they exist!
I don’t think they can deal with this now, he never has been disciplined in any way and I don’t think an amateur would now be competent to make decisions how to deal with it. I wouldn’t have a clue, and it’s their first dog.
I think husband and wife are both going to take him to training classes now, when they find one, but I hope they pick the trainer carefully as I can’t see many people having the skills and knowledge.

By disciplined I don’t mean anything physical, he doesn’t even know ‘sit’ or ‘no’.
 
Clodagh, if they have the will then they can start to establish who is top of the totem pole without leaving their property.

Everything the dog wants he has to work for. By work I mean sit before the door is opened to go into the garden. Down before he gets a meal. That sort of thing.

Touch and watch are easy to teach. They could mix it up so that he doesn't know what he will be asked to do.

They won't have to do it forever but it might get the relationship on a better footing if he knows they control all the good things.
 
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Clodagh said:
I wouldn’t go there. Mainly because I don’t think he will ever not be dog aggressive under stress and mine get chucked in pick ups with 12 dogs crammed in all in a state of high excitement. I can’t see he would ever cope with that. Also I have no experience with aggressive dogs, I think he is past what I can cope with.
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That's a pity but it doesn't sound as if they would be prepared to give him up anyway.
 
Poor dog. You cannot fix stupid C. Sad fact of life. Prior to the 2 I have now I had never had puppies, always older rescue/rehome dogs. I have to say that the pups have been much harder work than I envisaged and I have and still am working at making them well behaved sociable people. I'm getting there but the younger one is a bit of a wilful soul and has been something of a trial at times. Given a few more months of consistent handling he'll be fine but I dread to think how they'd be if they been left to their own devices.
 
skinnydipper said:
Clodagh, if they have the will then they can start to establish who is top of the totem pole without leaving their property.

Everything the dog wants he has to work for. By work I mean sit before the door is opened to go into the garden. Down before he gets a meal. That sort of thing.

Touch and watch are easy to teach. They could mix it up so that he doesn't know what he will be asked to do.

They won't have to do it forever but it might get the relationship on a better footing if he knows they control all the good things.
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The trouble is I have carefully only made a few suggestions about him, and none of those have been done. I really don’t feel I can suggest anything else, especially as I haven’t seen him for over a year (although they told me ‘he had his moments’ . The latest reports have been from my mum who sees him a few times a year. She is an experienced dog person herself.
 
Clodagh said:
The trouble is I have carefully only made a few suggestions about him, and none of those have been done. I really don’t feel I can suggest anything else, especially as I haven’t seen him for over a year (although they told me ‘he had his moments’ . The latest reports have been from my mum who sees him a few times a year. She is an experienced dog person herself.
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It must be frustrating for you and your mum, knowing what a good dog he could be in the right hands.
 
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