Fighting a losing battle - scabby knees

[chaps89]

My poor ponies knees are now so sore.
Oozy scabs and it's spreading - it was originally about the size of of a 20p but you can see it's over a much bigger area.
I've tried diprobase ointment, emulsifying cream, farriers mallender & sallender cream and now aloe Vera gel. It seems to have got worse over the last few months. I was careful not to put anything on when it was very hot as didn't want to fry her!

She's fed a tiny amount of speedibeet as a carrier for equimins advance complete and salt. She's out on old pasture in the day and has soaked then rinsed hay overnight. She's a very good doer so I'm reluctant to add linseed.
Her coat is always a bit scurfy and not the best but it's currently VERY greasy despite regular grooming - I've been wondering if this is due to the bedding (easy pack miscanthus) as it's more noticeable since we moved to the new yard and changed bedding 5 weeks ago.

I don't call the vet lightly but her legs look so sore I'm wondering if that needs to be the next port of call, or any other bright ideas?

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Have you tried leaving them completely alone to just scab over and do their own thing? I spent months battling mallenders, all to no end, other than to make my pony upset and sore. Eventually, I just left them alone. The scabs are still there but are dry and don't cause any discomfort at all.

 

[SusieT]

Vet. This needs proper attention

 

[dogatemysalad]

This does need the vet.

 

[chaps89]

Thanks, that's what I thought. I feel horrible, putting stuff on doesn't seem to have helped and I'm wondering if it's made it worse, despite it being best intentions.
Will give vet a ring and get them out.

 

[splash30]

Join mallenders and sallenders group on FB, unfortunately this is a never ending skin condition which you learn to manage.
Each horse is different to what works or what doesnt and you will have a full cupboard of every moisturising lotion potion going (human and horse).
First off check you dont have mites - do they stamp/itch
Get the hair as short as possible - this can be difficult.
What worked for mine is treating his thrush in his feet with eucalyptus & tea tree oil.
Mud fever cream from vets (fuciderm mixed with udder cream as far as I can make out)
Once redness has calmed down from applying vet cream.
Oil to horse gel not liquid which keeps it moisturised.
Rince and repeate for the rest of their lives.

 

[hollyandivy123]

You only need a small amount of linseed o make difference, I use one of those blue scoops

 

[Shay]

I have a good do-er cob and resisted linseed for years. He now gets one small 50ml scoop in each feed (morning and night) it makes no difference to his weight but has improved his knees and his propensity to mud fever. Not removed it - but has improved it.

As splash says you need to learn what works best for your horse but this is life long and needs daily management. If you leave it for a time it will get massively worse - as you have found. You need a vet for this as its got so inflamed. I favour flamazine cream as a prescription treatement (you can occasioanlly persuade it out of a pharmacist as its a human burn cream too..). and once settled udder cream daily. Some swear by pig oil & sulphur - I do too for mud fever prevention but not personally for the knees. But don't put sulphur near skin this sore.

 

[chaps89]

Thankyou, vet is coming on Wednesday and I will pick up some linseed at the feed store, got to be worth a try. Can you get smaller bags to try initially as opposed to having to go all out with one of those big sacks, or is the oil worth considering if she'll be getting so little? Also, how soon before you noticed an improvement?

It is only in the last couple of weeks they've just suddenly got so much worse, I wish I could pinpoint it to something changing but yard move meant a few things changed unfortunately and it could always just be coincidence too. I feel so guilty it's got this bad

 

[ester]

Linseed never made an issue to any of Frank's scabbiness, he still gets it but not for that. I know online you can get it in smaller bags, the big sacks don't last forever once opened either as can go rancid so worth keeping in mind.

Keeping the hair cut as short as possible and slathering in sudocreme with sulphur powder mixed in was our best option.

 

[SEL]

Linseed makes no difference to Militaire either - we're having a REALLY bad year. Unfortunately nothing is scabbing over because he's getting his teeth in. If your vet comes up with any miracles please let me know!

 

[mini-eventer]

I have seen a few people swear by head and shoulders! worth a punt for what it costs

 

[Surbie]

It is only in the last couple of weeks they've just suddenly got so much worse, I wish I could pinpoint it to something changing but yard move meant a few things changed unfortunately and it could always just be coincidence too. I feel so guilty it's got this bad

Coat change? Mine is shedding like crazy and it is always worse then.

I feed micronised linseed and his legs are better than they were in the past.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I have seen a few people swear by head and shoulders! worth a punt for what it costs

I used to use Head and Shoulders when I had a heavily feathered cob. It's really good for scurfy feathers, makes and tails. That, or T Gel from the supermarket. Chaps89 cob may need anti biotics though.

 

[Goldenstar]

Head and shoulders is a really good anti fungal try to get the anti itch one .
But that does need a vet

 

[chaps89]

Thanks everyone.
I've decided to leave well alone until the vet comes and not mess, beyond having added a bit of linseed oil into her diet. They do actually look nominally better but I agree they need some sort of medical intervention now (hence vet coming out!)

 

[Clueless]

When my cob got oily scabby knees the vet recommended https://www.flexitol.co.uk/professional/products/25-urea-heel-balm/. It has to be 25% and tubes come from boots or Superdrug. I bought a big pot onLine. It’s done the trick!

 

[emfen1305]

I've been through a right time with Bud this year too. I lift the scabs with Barriers hoof to heel gel as I find it really stays put and sticks to the scabs as the more you work it in the more it moisturises and then once the scabs are mostly gone I clip and wash with Nizoral shampoo which I have found the best for reducing the scabs! I feel for you, it's horrible seeing them so sore!

 

[chaps89]

So vet happy, I'm happy.
Her legs have improved a small amount since last week, having not touched them at all.
I was given a very mild shampoo to wash them with as and when they need washing. Vet feels harsher shampoos like head and shoulders or tea tree oil based are likely to be too harsh and aggravate the skin.
We have isaderm for twice daily use, to cut down as I see it working.
Vet suggests pig oil and sulphur once we've stopped the isaderm but said, as many of you have, it's just about trying different things till we find what works for her.
She did say often they're best being left alone, but as they get older it can get worse and when there's a flare up like she has now it does need treating. Alternatively you have to stay on top of it cleaning and moisturing every day. Again, just a case of seeing what is best for the individual.

The cats vet bill for a 10 minute appointment that I took him to on Monday was £190. How do we think the horses vet bill where vet drove to us and stayed for just under an hour (we were having quite the catch up to be fair!) Will compare?!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Vet bill is usually the call out fee, no?

It's worse than mine were, but I used the simplest solution and have been scab free for a long time now. Once I'd got rid of the majority of the scabs, I simply rub in baby oil, usually Asda's because Johnson's is more expensive! It needs assiduous and constant maintenance. Mine (cob) has very pink sensitive skin.

I used pig oil and Sulphur for a long time, but not consistently, so I can't really say if it's better or worse than baby oil.

 

[ester]

I suspect cheaper than the cat!
I've used pig oil and sulphur for general maintenance but do find the sudocreme better because it sticks on where I need it better. Removing fluorescent yellow cream is a pita though and went for other options if we had any outings planned!

 

[Gloi]

I really like wondergel for scabby knees

 

[chaps89]

Vet bill for the horse was indeed cheaper than for the cat.

Isaderm doesn't seem to be doing much, possibly because the skin has hardened so much that it can't really get in to take effect, so we are onto trying pig oil and sulphur (once I've patch tested) to try and soften the skin then go from there.
It's so frustrating, she's never had it like this ever and then bam, this big flare up

Thought I'd continue posting incase it helps anyone else.

 

[Goldenstar]

Has something made her immune suppressed ?

 

[Red-1]

I have found that with mallenders, mud fever and thrush all do better when an anti fungal is used as well as a anti bacterial/ antiseptic.

We had great success with Malaseb shampoo, but neat after wetting the hair, leaving for 10 minutes and then rinsing off. Then dry with white roll and an emollient (when it was as bad as yours it would be an anti bacterial from the vet such as Fuciderm). At night it would be dry wiped off in a downward motion and fresh Fuciderm applied.

When as bad as yours this would be daily until it cleared and there were no longer new scabs every morning, after which it would be a dry wipe off every morning and fresh application of emollient with a tea tree component (comes in a blue tube, lovely smell, from the horse shop, can't remember the name).

I found it was key never to force the scabs off. The overnight emollient then shampoo with 10 minute soak would ease them off, or they would come off when coated again and dry wiped, re-coated in the evening. Once it was under control the dry wipe off and proprietary product would generally keep it in check. If it looked to be active again generally one Malaceb treatment would cover it, then back to the nice smelling emollient.

If it is in a bandageable place then I also found bandaging helped soften the scabs so they were wipeable.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Muddy Marvel de- scab is really good stuff, leave on for 5 minutes, then use MM disinfectant if desired, and slap on MM barrier cream to finish.
Alternatively, a cheaper option, is to wash with Head and Shoulders, put on a barrier cream, cover with cling film for 20 minutes and then remove. The scabs should come away with a gentle rub.

 

[hattie2525]

I find Gold Label Wondergel is genuinely amazing for mallenders, really soothing so doesn't sting and melts into the skin without all the white sticky mess that sudocreme or such like leaves behind. Sometimes good old fashioned wound powder can soak up some of the weeping if its sore and damp or really greasy not sore and dry bu as others have said it's just trying lots and seeing what works for you and her.

 

[chaps89]

It's just really dry really hard skin that's so dry it's cracking hence the soreness.
Vet isn't keen on anything harsh like maleseb or head and shoulders for now as feels it would be too harsh and aggravate the skin. I believe (but happy to be corrected!) that Isaderm is the same as/re-branded fuciderm.

Immune suppression is a good shout - she was positive for Lyme a few years ago and when we first moved to the yard I was finding a few ticks on her (only in the first week, haven't seen any since) which would also tie in to them only flaring up since the move. She ìs otherwise totally well and fine in herself though. Will mention it to the vet.

I'm making a note of the different creams that people have found work as sounds like I might be having to try lots of them till we find the one that works for her so thankyou.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I also found bandaging helped soften the scabs so they were wipeable.

Back in the day, when my horse was really scabby, I was advised to pig oil and Sulphur overnight, wrapped in clingfilm.

Re the dry/soreness, any kind of washing will exacerbate that, although I was told to use pH neutral soap from the supermarket. If it was human skin, you'd be told to moisturise, so oil/sudocrem might be the simple answer.

Are the heels also affected? I found scabby bits there and slightly above too.

 

[Gloi]

I find Gold Label Wondergel is genuinely amazing for mallenders, really soothing so doesn't sting and melts into the skin without all the white sticky mess that sudocreme or such like leaves behind.

Same here, best thing we found. Horse didn't mind having it put on either , which was a blessing.