Find a horse for a 18stone + rider

Annagain said:
The issue with the 20% rule is that it doesn't take a horse's type into account and unless people have access to a weighbridge, they're guesstimating at best.

We had a weighbridge at our camp a while back and as a little fundraising thing afterwards I took side on confo type photos of 10 random horses and put them all together in a poster with a little bit of blurb with each horse's height, breed and age. People them paid £2 to guess the weight of the horses and there were prizes for the closest to the total weight. Although it wasn't meant to be, it turned out to be quite an interesting experiment. Generally people over estimated the weight of TB types and underestimated the weight of more cobby types. Many of the horses were around the 550kg mark but they ranged from a 14hh heavy cob to a very slight 16.2hh TB. I know which of those two I'd rather put 110kg on.

Even with my two oldies who are very similar types and weights, (obviously when they were both fit and sound, they're both currently carrying 0kg!) I'd be happier putting more weight on Archie than Monty. Archie's actually the lighter of the two at about 650kg fighting fit to Monty's 670kg but he's much shorter backed, wider shouldered, deeper girthed with nearly an extra inch of bone than Mont who is long backed (and necked) with a huge backside but puny legs. Having said that, there's no way I'd would have put 20 - 21 stone on either of them which is what the 20% rule suggests. I suspect Charlie's a similar weight but I wouldn't put anywhere near as much on him at the moment as he's still a bit gangly and needs to fill out. When he's done though, I think he could carry more than they did - not that he will.
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No one can truly guess the weight of the racehorses with much accuracy either. It's quite entertaining to see them try though! We have a weigh bridge that every horse goes on on a Monday so we know what they weigh all season.
 
Michen said:
I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though :D

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I always think you look very compatible with your two horses @Michen!
 
Michen said:
Thanks! Makes it even worse than the maths says otherwise (if you prefer to be at 15% that is) but I won't take it for granted again!
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The struggle is real :( I have struggled to maintain a 15% weight for a decade in order that my lightweight (pb arab) horse is ridden fairly. He weighs 530-550 kg depending on the season etc. At times it has been really difficult and I have thought about it a lot. I have just about managed my weight or the horse's workload and he is in great shape. BUT for my own health I am rather glad I have had this rather constant nagging pressure that is kind of quantifiable. It has also helped me to think about why it is so difficult to talk about our weight/shape etc and I have realised that for me, the trick is to make the business of weight actually pretty impersonal. I am not a better or worse person for being fat or thin, nor do I deny that life sometimes makes one or the other state more likely. As a horse rider, weight is weight and I am at an acceptable riding weight or not. I find that easier than worrying about what people think tbh. That quantifiable weight also helps me to feel more objective about my weight and shape which is mentally much healthier than some other ways of dealing with social pressures to look a certain way or weigh a certain amount etc.

Lately I have found a really good groove with my own dietary habits and am feeling the benefits in lots of ways. Ironically my other horse - a young horse could potentially cope with a heavier me...I wouldn't want that as she is young and surely any horse benefits from a lighter weight?!!

I do wonder how many equestrians see themselves as 'athletes' (snorting my tea out at the thought!) but we probably really should as that does bring with it a context around our bodies that may in some ways be far more healthy than other social stereotypes. Sadly I am one of them folk that was born more cob than thoroughbred, more muscly than is entirely necessary and with decent cannon bones and pelvis and unneccessary amounts of bosom too :( I am 5'7, a size 10/12, fit easily into size 28 jods but I weigh well - so I must keep an eye on those scales! I have accepted that. I wish there was a better conversation and way of discussing rider weights for those folk in distress about it; it would really be so much better for our horses.
 
palo1 said:
It has also helped me to think about why it is so difficult to talk about our weight/shape etc and I have realised that for me, the trick is to make the business of weight actually pretty impersonal. I am not a better or worse person for being fat or thin, nor do I deny that life sometimes makes one or the other state more likely.

I wish there was a better conversation and way of discussing rider weights for those folk in distress about it; it would really be so much better for our horses.
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Getting to this state of mind is, in my opinion, hard work but very worthy work. Not all the way there myself but absolutely something I am always aiming for. Wise post.

And nothing sad about being a cobby type Palo! I'm more of a Shetland build myself but we all have our uses! We'll survive the endless winter that climate change is going to hand us anyway!
 
Putting my neck on the line here to say that at the moment I think I'm pushing 18 stone. Now, I have gained a lot of muscle since I started working with my PT, and my "weight" on the scales has actually increased, but I will not be getting on a horse until my weight is right down. I know it's going to take a long time but in the meantime I can drive P (he's only 11.2hh anyway!). And it is a really great goal to work towards because I really would love to start riding again so this is my motivation.

ETA I am definitely a "cob" type! My great-grandfather used to have a saying - "There's carthorses and racehorses, and you can't make a racehorse out of a carthorse". I'll never be a racehorse (just not built that way!) but I know I can get my weight down and be a bl00dy fit carthorse! ;)
 
smolmaus said:
Getting to this state of mind is, in my opinion, hard work but very worthy work. Not all the way there myself but absolutely something I am always aiming for. Wise post.

And nothing sad about being a cobby type Palo! I'm more of a Shetland build myself but we all have our uses! We'll survive the endless winter that climate change is going to hand us anyway!
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Thank you! No, no problem being a good cob-type (increasingly a sporty cob so very marketable in fact lol!!) I am super cheap to keep too so yes ready to survive endless winters and hard work! I think though that it has helped me to stay objective about having a somewhat more sturdy shape than fashion suggests is desirable when I know absolutely objectively that I can ride my wonderful and very sleek and sporty horse. In fact, he looks how I would love to... I may not 'look' quite how I would like (endless legs, small boned, snake hipped - you know the thing?!) but my horse doesn't care about that as long as I am not putting a strain on him. Looking at things from the point of view of what really matters to me (my horses) has been very liberating in that sense. But I have had years to think my way round this. I really do get how upsetting and difficult it might be to want to ride, to be a certain weight that makes that more tricky and have issues around self-esteem and the pressures that society puts on us to look a certain way.
 
It is such an emotive subject as others have stated. I sometimes have to turn away bookings for riding holidays when people are over the weight limit (which is on the website but people miss it) and it's quite stressful when you don't want to upset anybody.

I do think the horse comes first of course, but I think I also have a different opinion to many posters here in that I firmly believe there are some horses who can comfortably carry 16 - 17st. I think it's really difficult to set a rule on it and that the individual horse and rider combination have to be taken into account... size, shape, fitness, experience, balance of both and what they will be doing. My partner found a riding school to accept him at 16st 4lbs and was well-matched with a horse who I am confident was able to carry him without any detriment to them. Whilst I do agree that weight is weight, whether it be muscle or fat on a person, I think there is a difference for a horse in carrying someone who is unfit and overweight compared to carrying someone of the same weight who is in proportion and fit and perhaps better able to carry/balance themselves.

I have full respect for anybody who sets a 'lower limit' for their horses and of course the lighter the rider, the better really and I acknowledge that. I do often see pairings where I firmly believe the rider is too heavy for their mount and I do find it upsetting, but equally I am sometimes shocked by some of the maximum weights people think riders should be. I like to think everyone should just use common sense but I'm not sure the human populace (myself included) really has much sometimes.

PS. I realise this is an old thread and also about riders 18st+ so I've essentially gone off on a tangent.
 
brighteyes said:
Come on, heights at the very least! I'll hazard 560 and 590
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Sorry the height didn't cross my mind ??

17hh thoroughbred. It is actually the same horse 3 months apart, the lighter bay pic is when he came back from his owners after his holiday (and wasn't quite as fat as usual ...) and he tipped the scales at 620kg. The darker bay pic is because he had just had a full wash down and was wet. Weighing in race fit at around 560kg. He is a big boned lad, deep through the rib cage and Broad.
 
Elf On A Shelf said:
Sorry the height didn't cross my mind ??

17hh thoroughbred. It is actually the same horse 3 months apart, the lighter bay pic is when he came back from his owners after his holiday (and wasn't quite as fat as usual ...) and he tipped the scales at 620kg. The darker bay pic is because he had just had a full wash down and was wet. Weighing in race fit at around 560kg. He is a big boned lad, deep through the rib cage and Broad.
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Cool! I was on the money with one!
 
It's such an interesting discussion. I'm not riding mine at the moment. Being furghloughed means my weight has rocketed, but I can honestly say I am struggling with it.
But I'm trying and I think it's all we can do.
 
Jeni the dragon said:
It's such an interesting discussion. I'm not riding mine at the moment. Being furghloughed means my weight has rocketed, but I can honestly say I am struggling with it.
But I'm trying and I think it's all we can do.
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It can be very difficult I agree. Things happen to all of us including weight gain or loss and that can coincide horribly with a hobby or lifestyle that includes horses. We live in a society with an equine and human obesity crisis so there are systemic problems that as individuals we are going to struggle with; recommendations about what is actually a healthy diet, unlimited choice of food and lifestyle, the processes of ageing (whether as an adolescent to adult or youngster to older person!) constant pressure from external sources about the way we look and how we deal with that; including pressure to accept ourselves as we are (when actually some folk really are struggling and don't want to accept the way they are right now :( ). We have pressure on us too about how we manage our horses, how we ride, the hierarchy of equine pursuits etc etc. No wonder it's blooming hard!!

I have ridden my horse over the 15% guideline (with clothing and tack) and not realised and I have ridden the same horse over the 15% guideline and known that I am doing that. I have tried to mitigate that though by accepting that being relatively close (when I am at a healthy weight) to a good weight for him means that I have to work harder at keeping him strong, that jumping is limited (thankfully he is not fussed about jumping bless him), that he is fit, has a really well fitted, appropriate saddle and that I keep a constant watch on my weight. At times when it has been more difficult for me to maintain a good weight (bereavement, stress etc) I have ridden much less and done fun stuff on the ground; I have never walked away entirely thankfully!! That has usually been for a couple of weeks or a month or so. I weigh myself regularly and that actually is reassuring as even when I think I am a bit on the heavy side, sometimes I am not and vice versa. It took a long time for me to come to terms with this but now it feels like a comforting routine - knowing that no matter how I feel about myself, I know what is ok for riding and know where I am with that. Often the two are entirely unrelated. It also means that I don't feel uncomfortable around conversations regarding rider weight as I know that I am both doing my best and that I am within a safe weight for my horse. Obviously it is a sensitive subject but for me it helps to have that knowledge. I have never wanted to sell my horse so I have had to get to grips with it all and that has been really, really positive for me in other ways too. From an entirely personal perspective to do with my health and vanity I am really glad that my horse has a relatively 'close' weight tolerance for me as a rider. I don't want a horse that can carry enough for me to go wild with the cake!! I kind of appreciate the objective pressure to stay healthily slim to be honest. :)

Clearly for anyone with really troubling feelings about their weight or around eating it is very difficult and that probably needs a different approach.
 
Slightly off topic but I think it was IHW who mentioned the menopause above.

I thinks it's a shock when you've maintained a decent weight all your life to suddenly grow a big belly and pile on the pounds even though nothing has changed diet or exercise wise.

At 47 and having been slim and petite all my life I've suddenly got a bad case of middle age spread and have put on half a stone and I can't shift it for love nor money. I think it's worth acknowledging that losing weight as your heading towards menopause is really, really hard.

I was reading an article recently that explained that not only do women in perimenopause/menopause put on weight, but the body actually shifts this excess fat from the backside and redistributes it to the chest and belly (why???). Wondering if this has a knock on effect to riding position/centre of gravity in the saddle, but don't think any studies have been done on this.

Perhaps not, as I think its possible to have a strong core AND wobbly belly.

Not sure where I'm going with this or what it adds to the discussion but it's just something I've been pondering.
 
southerncomfort said:
Slightly off topic but I think it was IHW who mentioned the menopause above.

I thinks it's a shock when you've maintained a decent weight all your life to suddenly grow a big belly and pile on the pounds even though nothing has changed diet or exercise wise.

At 47 and having been slim and petite all my life I've suddenly got a bad case of middle age spread and have put on half a stone and I can't shift it for love nor money. I think it's worth acknowledging that losing weight as your heading towards menopause is really, really hard.

I was reading an article recently that explained that not only do women in perimenopause/menopause put on weight, but the body actually shifts this excess fat from the backside and redistributes it to the chest and belly (why???). Wondering if this has a knock on effect to riding position/centre of gravity in the saddle, but don't think any studies have been done on this.

Perhaps not, as I think its possible to have a strong core AND wobbly belly.

Not sure where I'm going with this or what it adds to the discussion but it's just something I've been pondering.
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I think it is really helpful to talk about all of these things. :) When we are all uncomfortable about the issue of discussing rider weights then everything needs to be in the mix and for people whose bodies are changing for one reason or another I reckon it's good to open the discussion. Weight gain or loss can come from so many different places and can take people by surprise so that they end up lighter or heavier than they may ever have thought.
 
I have just seen this: http://www.exmoorponytrekking.co.uk...hp_FE6fs4CS5Zm-nHAG4eJZlmC5NTw0zuxyR0Yvcilq34

The page says ''Please note we have a strict weight limit of 11.5 stone (73kg). All riders over 12 years old will be asked to step on the scales, as each of our ponies have their own individual weight limit.''

Exies are lovely strong though not usually hugely tall ponies and this weight limit seems pretty sensible to me. I guess the centre adds the weight of tack. It is good to see the statement so clearly too. At 5'7 I would certainly want the tallest possibly Exmoor as would feel somewhat underhorsed at 13.2!
 
palo1 said:
I have just seen this: http://www.exmoorponytrekking.co.uk...hp_FE6fs4CS5Zm-nHAG4eJZlmC5NTw0zuxyR0Yvcilq34

The page says ''Please note we have a strict weight limit of 11.5 stone (73kg). All riders over 12 years old will be asked to step on the scales, as each of our ponies have their own individual weight limit.''

Exies are lovely strong though not usually hugely tall ponies and this weight limit seems pretty sensible to me. I guess the centre adds the weight of tack. It is good to see the statement so clearly too. At 5'7 I would certainly want the tallest possibly Exmoor as would feel somewhat underhorsed at 13.2!
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Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go. I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
 

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Cheeky Chestnut said:
Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go. I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
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You look amazing! :) I am really sorry you have been made to feel badly and I agree that fat shaming is horrible - emotionally destructive and totally counter-productive. It is great that you are starting to feel like yourself again. I have much sympathy too also being an hour-glass, curvy sort of shape that weighs in rather well!
 
Cheeky Chestnut said:
Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed most of my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes for a lot of it, my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go. I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
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That's not fat shaming to me. They're doing it for the welfare and well-being of their ponies.

If you read the rules ahead of time, you can just weigh yourself in private. If you're over their limit, then don't go there.

I'm sure they're not having people step on a scale with a huge display and announcing people's weight via megaphone.

I think establishing a weight limit and "enforcing it" is fine when it's for the animal.
 
Cheeky Chestnut said:
Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific, having been fat shamed all my life despite being fit and healthy and a size ten in clothes my curvy hour glass shape doesn’t help and I always look heavier than I am. I personally think private horses don’t require such a strict limit, I also think rider balance plays a part. It’s not a popular view but hey ho. I always kept my horses fit so me carrying a little extra never hurt them. My boy was still happy and sound just before he was PTS at a rather advanced age and had carried me at my heaviest without issue. Of course it’s better being lighter for them and for your own health but I don’t think people should be made to feel horrid over it, neither should they feel like they must be horrid to themselves.

I am heavier now due to medical issues but having shed 2.5st since beg of Jan I’m beginning to feel like myself. Just another 2.5st to go. I have attached a pic of me when I was being called fat a few years ago. The dress is a size 10petite (short girl problems) unless you have been constantly told you’re fat by even your own family you won’t understand how it feels for people to ask you to step on scales.
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Yeah I was asked to step on scales at the first place I went to after my long break from riding, having been at the same stables since I was 7 previously I had NO IDEA that was even a thing so it took me a bit by surprise. I wasn't long out of the Dark Place RE: my eating habits and it wasn't a nice experience. Of course I just put a smile on and tried not to think about it too much, they had no idea it would be any sort of trigger for me so they can't be blamed. The school had no intention of shaming me at all of course, everyone gets weighed, they don't single anybody out and it's just a practical thing but that didn't make it any easier on my poor broken brain!

You look class in that dress! I feel like it's been in my online basket before tbh, which isn't that unlikely seeing how limited the petite options usually are ?
CanteringCarrot said:
That's not fat shaming to me. They're doing it for the welfare and well-being of their ponies.

If you read the rules ahead of time, you can just weigh yourself in private. If you're over their limit, then don't go there.

I'm sure they're not having people step on a scale with a huge display and announcing people's weight via megaphone.

I think establishing a weight limit and "enforcing it" is fine when it's for the animal.
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It's an unfortunate part of a sh*tty fatphobic society tbh, the riding school aren't doing anything wrong but it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful.
 
Cheeky Chestnut said:
Even being under that weight I wouldn’t book anywhere that would ask people to step on scales. I understand that they are running a business however I just think that fat shaming people is horrific
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Ok, so go somewhere that doesn't weigh their riders ?‍♀️. I look at riding centres that are prepared to weigh riders (Adventure Clydesdales in Devon do the same, but their weight limits are higher) and think 'Good for them'. It's published on their website, so no need for anyone to be taken by surprise.

Pussy footing about overweight would be riders and their feelings must not impact on the horses. If an overweight (for the horse) rider turns up, then they need to be turned away.

It is not fat shaming to have a strict weight limit for a horse riding business. If you cant do the weight (just weigh yourself at home first), then don't book, simples.
 
That’s a shame SM that they blind sided you with that. I’d have walked personally. As I said in my above post I wouldn’t book anywhere that asked me to do that even if I knew I was well below the limit.

Was a next dress I think ? so probably was lol theirs and DPs petite range were my go to ?
 
smolmaus said:
Yeah I was asked to step on scales at the first place I went to after my long break from riding, having been at the same stables since I was 7 previously I had NO IDEA that was even a thing so it took me a bit by surprise. I wasn't long out of the Dark Place RE: my eating habits and it wasn't a nice experience. Of course I just put a smile on and tried not to think about it too much, they had no idea it would be any sort of trigger for me so they can't be blamed. The school had no intention of shaming me at all of course, everyone gets weighed, they don't single anybody out and it's just a practical thing but that didn't make it any easier on my poor broken brain!

You look class in that dress! I feel like it's been in my online basket before tbh, which isn't that unlikely seeing how limited the petite options usually are ?

It's an unfortunate part of a sh*tty fatphobic society tbh, the riding school aren't doing anything wrong but it doesn't mean it can't be hurtful.
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How is not wanting to put too heavy of a rider on your ponies part of a "fatphobic society"

I am not arguing that the fatphobic society doesn't exist, just that I don't think they're part of it.

Yes, it could be hurtful to some, but a lot of things could be hurtful to some.

My horse is not a good weight carrier, I've literally seen this when my OH (also a rider) hoped on him just to see if it could work. He is well balanced and doesn't interfere much with the horse, but his sheer weight was just too much. There was a visible change in my horses posture and way of going. He's not a weak horse, but has a limit regardless. So I can understand limits regarding weight.

But what is the place to do in order to not he hurtful? They're either hurtful to their ponies or potentially hurtful toward some people.

I am not dismissing anyone's feelings or hurt.
 
Michen said:
I am going to! This throws some really interesting conversations up though. Me on Boggle recently, I don’t think most people would look at that pic and think that’s a rider that’s over weight for this horse. But the reality is I am over 15% and probably more towards 17% including clothing and tack.

Weight can be very deceptive. I would have had no idea if I hadn’t been made to get on the scales.

A lesson I won’t forget!

I really do want that 4th Bagel though :D

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possible option for the fourth bagel would be to go bare back...........saves the weight of the saddle and possibly opens up the opportunity of a biscuit with a cup of tea?
 
CanteringCarrot said:
How is not wanting to put too heavy of a rider on your ponies part of a "fatphobic society"

I am not arguing that the fatphobic society doesn't exist, just that I don't think they're part of it.

Yes, it could be hurtful to some, but a lot of things could be hurtful to some.

My horse is not a good weight carrier, I've literally seen this when my OH (also a rider) hoped on him just to see if it could work. He is well balanced and doesn't interfere much with the horse, but his sheer weight was just too much. There was a visible change in my horses posture and way of going. He's not a weak horse, but has a limit regardless. So I can understand limits regarding weight.

But what is the place to do in order to not he hurtful? They're either hurtful to their ponies or potentially hurtful toward some people.

I am not dismissing anyone's feelings or hurt.
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You misunderstood, I meant the fact it will be hurtful to some people is a result of society's general fatphobia. If Cheeky Chestnut or myself or any number of people hadn't been damaged by it already then being weighed wouldn't have any negative feelings attached to it at all. And really it shouldn't! I did specifically say the school were doing nothing wrong so I rather feel like you've misunderstood me on purpose there.
Cheeky Chestnut said:
That’s a shame SM that they blind sided you with that. I’d have walked personally. As I said in my above post I wouldn’t book anywhere that asked me to do that even if I knew I was well below the limit.

Was a next dress I think ? so probably was lol theirs and DPs petite range were my go to ?
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I was absolutely desperate to put my butt in a saddle, nothing was going to stop me ? It nearly ended up better that way tbh, if I had thought about it and realised of course they were probably going to weigh me I might have let it stop me going and that would have been a bigger shame in the long run.

My go-to's as well! Next for nice dresses, DP for work dresses ?
 
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