First horse, not for a novice!

[Guinevere]

Thanks Clippi, I believe the diet she could have provided there (I'm used to buying my own) would be 1 scoop "Chaff", upto half scoop "Leisure Mix" and upto half scoop "Sugar Beet" twice a day. Should I edit that in any way and why? xxx

 

[Kat]

Won't comment too much on it as am pursuing it but we were not told anything by the people who were selling her on behalf of the owner and she seemed great on the day but I know they knew these things, now. Just to sell her.

Her current diet is morning and night:

a handful of garlic
a scoop of alfa oil
half a scoop of pasture mix (morning, not night)
half a scoop of spillers conditioning cubes
half a cup of soya oil

I have since researched that a leisure horse should not be on so much soya oil thanks to a post by horse and hound and I am considering a swap to sunflower oil. She has been on this while I haven't done anything with her which is concerning as I didn't know the soya oil could make her a bit exuberant which I have since found out.

I haven't moved her to my new yard yet but they have suggested alterations and also for her up in exercise. She will be turned out every day but come in for night, she suffers from sweet itch too which was why this was recommended.

The new yard feeds hifi I believe and have also suggested reconsidering the soya oil and doing some research into it, which is what prompted me. I feel bad for not doing this myself because I research everything the dogs I have eat and take in but sometimes you trust people in authority to tell you what is best and take it as law which I know I shouldn't. Could you make any suggestions to her diet? She will also be starting on 30 of the Blue Chip calmer but I have also been told to try her up to as much as 50. I have emailed the company to ask about that as I don't want to knock her out if it is effective xxx

I'm no feed expert but I might have a few suggestions. You might be best posting in the feed section though.

How is her weight?

Rather than feeding the soya oil, or the sunflower oil I would use micronised linseed. I used to use sunflower oil but switched after lots of research, linseed can be used to put on weight like oil but has other benefits, in particular the balance of omega 3 and omega 6 is spot on for horses.

I think your current diet sounds very full of energy for the work your horse is getting. I would cut it right back so she doesn't get any more energy than she needs. Mine works 5 or 6 days a week and that is either 40 mins schooling or 1.5 - 2 hours hacking and does this just on haylage, unmollassed beet, linseed and a vitamin suppliment. She isn't a good doer either.

I would be wary of the Alfa A Oil, some horses react badly to Alfalfa so I would try cutting it out and seeing whether things improve.

The conditioning cubes and the pasture mix also sound a bit heating to me.

I see the yard feed dengie feeds - their nutritionist gave me some really duff information - don't trust them. Some of their products are fairly low calorie but I think most if not all contain alfalfa.

If it were me I'd either stop giving her a hard feed or swap to something really low sugar and low starch in low quantities. The grass will be coming through soon so she will get a boost from than and as a cob x wb I bet she is a pretty good doer, with no ridden work I wouldn't expect her to need anything more than hay/haylage and grass.

Rather than the blue chip calmer look at cheaper magnesium suppliments, they will do the same job. I used equine america magnitude for a while which is pretty reasonable but now I use Pro-Earth's magnesium suppliment and that is even cheaper still, and is delivered to your door.

 

[Kat]

Thanks Clippi, I believe the diet she could have provided there (I'm used to buying my own) would be 1 scoop "Chaff", upto half scoop "Leisure Mix" and upto half scoop "Sugar Beet" twice a day. Should I edit that in any way and why? xxx

If the sugar beet is unmollassed use that to hide some magnesium and a vitamin suppliment in. If not buy your own, it is pretty cheap. I'd avoid the leisure mix, and see what the chaff is, it can be ok but it can also be awful sugary rubbish. You don't need chaff though, it is just a filler really.

 

[Guinevere]

For reference, these were taken a few weeks ago, I took them so I could see her changes and for places like this for advice from all angles:

Thanks Kat, I will definitely do some research on that. I was put off of haylage after being told it could make her fizzy too? I probably should ask all of this in the feed section, I had made a post on soya oil there earlier xxx

 

[Guinevere]

P.S. what vit supplement would you recommend? I have no idea where to begin with them and was worrying I'd choose something that was expensive and didn't help her. Again sorry for posting this not in the food section. Money not an issue but don't want to give her something pointless xxx

 

[clippi]

If she is going to be fed as it is part of the livery, I would start with unmolassed chaff and maybe a bit of unmolassed beet, and see how she goes.
It can take a couple of weeks for feeds to get out of their system.
The reason I would avoid any mixes is because they usually contain some sort of cereal which some horses can find heating

 

[Guinevere]

Thank you Clippi, I will write this down and discuss it with them before she arrives xxx

 

[Pigeon]

What a lovely looking horse Very unusual markings!

I agree, bigger circle, and whip should be used less (I don't mean that you're beating her with it haha, more that she's gotten used to it so when you do swish it at her it doesn't have much effect). Try and get a more forward trot. You don't need to stay on a circle, you can move towards her hindquarters (at a safe distance) to effectively drive her forwards. Have you tried lunging over poles? That might give you both something to focus on.

 

[Tiffany]

Sorry not read all posts. Is she on same diet now or have you changed it since you got her?

Rather than lunging, if she's good to handle you could start by walking her round the school and every so often stop and if she stops give her a pat and tell her she's a good girl then walk on again. When you feel confident and she's stopping when you do you could try and few strides of trot. This should help build your confidence and build her trust in you.

She looks a lovely mare and hopefully with time, you'll build a strong relationship together.

 

[Kat]

Aww what a cute face.

Vitamin suppliment wise, I use pro-hoof from progressive earth. They do a cheaper one called pro-balance. I like their products as they don't contain extras and you pay for the minerals and nothing else. Find them on eBay.

 

[Guinevere]

Just an update to say I've purchased an EquiAmi to help lungeing as she is far more comfortable in a roller and side reins seemingly. Also following the diet change and calmer has arrived. Thanks all for your help xxx

 

[celticmolly]

Just a thought regarding deciding on a suitable ration - there is a really good (free) on-line equine nutrition course running at the moment. We're in week 4 of the 5 week course, but I believe that you can still register and participate. It's delivered by staff at the University of Edinburgh. I am finding it really informative, especially as my lovely little mare is insulin-resistant.
Best of luck with your new girl

 

[Guinevere]

That sounds great! Thanks Celticmolly xxx

 

[Booboos]

She is a gorgeous looking horse and I am sure that underneath the problems she has a lovely personality, however I am going to be very honest with you as someone who was also sold a very unsuitable first horse by unscrupulous sellers. She is not suitable for you. I think you know that because your OP pretty much says so, but 'knowing' it and knowing it are two different things because we are all horse lovers and we buy horses because we want to care for them and build a bond with them and keep them for life.

Sometimes it's not possible.

Realistically you have two options.
Sell her: this won't be easy because you sound like an honest person who would disclose her problems, so finding her a good home will be tough. She's the kind of horse whose problems might be disguised so there is always the worry that someone will do just that for a quick profit.

Get her re-schooled: get an experienced equine vet to give her the all clear and send her to reputable professional to assess and re-school her. JanetGeorge on here has an excellent reputation and has helped a lot of members, but equally if you post asking for recommendations I am sure there will be other choices. This is neither an easy, short or cheap option but at the end of it you should have a better adjusted horse. You can then decide if she's the horse for you or whether it's best to find her a new home which should be a lot easier at that stage.

 

[Kat]

She is a gorgeous looking horse and I am sure that underneath the problems she has a lovely personality, however I am going to be very honest with you as someone who was also sold a very unsuitable first horse by unscrupulous sellers. She is not suitable for you. I think you know that because your OP pretty much says so, but 'knowing' it and knowing it are two different things because we are all horse lovers and we buy horses because we want to care for them and build a bond with them and keep them for life.

Sometimes it's not possible.

Realistically you have two options.
Sell her: this won't be easy because you sound like an honest person who would disclose her problems, so finding her a good home will be tough. She's the kind of horse whose problems might be disguised so there is always the worry that someone will do just that for a quick profit.

Get her re-schooled: get an experienced equine vet to give her the all clear and send her to reputable professional to assess and re-school her. JanetGeorge on here has an excellent reputation and has helped a lot of members, but equally if you post asking for recommendations I am sure there will be other choices. This is neither an easy, short or cheap option but at the end of it you should have a better adjusted horse. You can then decide if she's the horse for you or whether it's best to find her a new home which should be a lot easier at that stage.

Very sound advice, but I think the OP has already moved to a full livery yard where there are staff who can work the horse for her and provide her with help, which may well be enough to get them on track. If her issues are more major then sending away for schooling with someone experienced in problem horses might be a good plan.

 

[wench]

Isn't there a difference in this post and the "dream pony" post above!!!

 

[Booboos]

Very sound advice, but I think the OP has already moved to a full livery yard where there are staff who can work the horse for her and provide her with help, which may well be enough to get them on track. If her issues are more major then sending away for schooling with someone experienced in problem horses might be a good plan.

Sorry I didn't spot that, hopefully it will be enough!

Perhaps the new yard have helped a bit with the lunging but if you are still looking for pointers OP, I would:
- try to lunge off a caveson not a headcollar
- if you can hold the lunge rein like an actual rein, i.e. arm bent at the elbow, wrist straight, thumb on top
- don't walk a little circle with her, it just means she is never turning and is always escaping from the shoulder. Obviously you need to move your feet enough to turn around but stay on the spot - at first this will feel really bad as she will pull but then use the stick to really send her forward
- still think from leg (whip) to hand and half halt to get a bit of a connection in her work, she can still be engaged on the lunge.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

You've had lots of good advice, so I won't repeat any of it, I just wanted to say-

She's a lovely horse and quite honestly, I think you're being too hard on yourself. The early months with a new horse are always a steep learning curve but you'll get there.
You're so open to seeking advice and have sought professional help all the way along, your mare is lucky to have you.

A regular routine, cutting out the hard feed and maxium turnout with company is a good idea.

Be Patient. Don't worry about your progress because quiet persistence wins in the end.

Despite not being an expert, heed your gut instincts. Listen to advice, but if it doesn't sit right with you, ignore the advice in the nicest possible way, because the only voice your horse has, is yours.

 

[Kat]

Isn't there a difference in this post and the "dream pony" post above!!!

Ah man such a contrast! I went and read the dream pony thread after this post and just

So nice to read a post where the OP is calmly taking on board advice, and accepting that they don't know EVERYTHING. It gives you confidence that whatever happens the horse has probably landed on its feet. A bit like MrsB who was mis-sold the big chestnut.

 

[Guinevere]

Booboos - I just want to say thank you for the way you phrased your post, I completely understand where you are coming from and appreciate the way you phrased it so as to be honest but not come at me. As others have said I have always been in part livery and would never go it alone for my own safety as well as my horse's, I am not experienced at all and will always need help exercising her due to my disability and advice on food, what rugs to put on etc. I second guess myself a lot! I take your advice on board fully but I have no intention of selling her, I want to make things right for her and I believe with the professionals around me I can do that. They care for her 5 days a week, I come in to feed, muck out, take her out at weekends and then for now I am paying £10 a day to have her lunged every day by the professional. I will then see the physio and vet along the way to make sure we are on track before booking the saddle fitter, I would not book the fitter before they thought it ready. I have ridden her several times on hacks with no issues at all, and in the school with her standing still and bucking small bunny hops but that was in the previous owners saddle, the physio has said that this is very likely to improve with a new saddle. She was also ridden by another professional who had absolutely no issues with her, so maybe she knows I am a little anxious when on and is being stubborn for me. We will see and if neccessary I will go to confidence classes and let a professional reschool her in the saddle too before I get on in the school. She is extremely safe and a confidence giver on hacks and I haven't felt scared riding her in the school but obviously knowing she may buck a little and that she is a new horse is probably where my anxiety stems from.

On another note, I know JanetGeorge, I found my friend a job at her yard so I am happy to hear good things and know there is someone else around me if I need. Thank you for also adding that so that I can try different avenues with different people if I need to.

I will keep you posted! xxx

 

[Guinevere]

Horserider - Thank you for your comments, I am learning what advice is one to follow and one to question but as you know it will take me time. It's encouraging to hear the same recommendations made by several people which is where I begin my further research for example the food section. I am already putting that into action with reducing things that will help her mood and her sweet itch.

You would not be the first person to say I'm too hard on myself haha, I think that is every aspect of my life sadly but people have made good suggestions on sorting that too so I'd like to think in a year or so Guin and I together will be a new partnership and a happy one. Thank you xxx

For now here is a picture of Guin and I when she arrived, already I'm seeing some muscle building up but her back end is where we need to work most I think. You can't see much in this photo as it's very dark but this was the day she arrived, as you can see, I was happy to say the least!

P.S you can also see how much her hoof had worn down but a full set of shoes were replaced/added as soon as she came to me!

 

[Booboos]

I am so glad my post didn't come across as too negative! My intention was to be helpful but it's difficult to explain clearly over the internet!

It sounds like you are doing all the right things, and if she's fine on hacks then it's more likely a psychological issue that you can overcome with lessons and a bit of schooling if necessary.

My horses really like the Equiami, I hope it helps your girl as well!

 

[celticmolly]

Hello again Guinevere,
Just noticed your comment re mood and sweet itch.
We had a little welsh C/D mare on loan a couple of years ago. We gave her a herbal supplement, Dodson and Horrell's Itch-free, for her sweet itch, and it had the added bonus of calming her, too (as it contains chamomile). I know that some herbal remedies work for one horse and not another, but it might be worth a try.

 

[siennamum]

Can you get some lessons in ground work. It really helps your relationship and you and she will enjoy it and build your confidence. If you can find someone who would teach you, it is going to progress you both.

I would be really reluctant to lunge a young horse loads. Not sure if I have missed why it's neccessaary, but it is going to mke her frustrated, you would be better served having someone capable hack her a couple of times a week quietly in order to skip a few lunging days.

Finally I would stop all the food she is currently getting and change her to grass nuts, chaff and a supplement. If you think she needs a bit more condition then you could always add some sugarbeet, but the Spring Grass is going to come through soon and she will bulk up in no time.

Feel free to ignore, but this is what I would recommend if you were on my yard.
NB. she is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[Guinevere]

Hi Siennamum, I can ride her with no problem it's ground work I am too weak to do. She can't be ridden at the moment and physio recommended lunging for a month as she has no muscle at all. She had an ill fitting saddle in previous home, all explained further back a few pages xxx

 

[Guinevere]

UPDATE - Hey all! Thought I would let you know that I've now moved yard and reduced her food intake and taken out the heating products. She has started the karma but after being looked at needs to put on a lot more weight as well as muscle so we will re access the oil she has and micronised linseed seems to be the one to go for. Vegetable was suggested but after research I was concerned by the additives.

She loaded well, with no fight, travelled well and got off as though she'd always been there. Had an hour in her new roomy stable and then was turned out individually next to others. I am extremely happy as is she!

Lunging starts tomorrow, without equiami to assess her so she doesn't get tangled and then will introduce. She is being lunged by the riding instructor who is very experienced so I will not be teaching her any bad habits! Also phoning new physio to book in who everyone has recommended.

Thanks all for your help, will continue to update you. I am extremely happy with the new yard and progress we've made even now. Xxx

 

[Kat]

Glad to hear a positive progress report, keep updating us, I can't wait to hear that you are back on board in a months time x x

 

[Guinevere]

Thank you! Found the yard on here and everyone keeps telling me how lucky I am to get a space! Chorley equestrian in Shropshire. Will post some pics when on PC xxx

 

[clippi]

Glad the move went well. That place looks fab

 

[Sallyfinn]

Glad to hear things are looking up. I just wanted to share my story with you.
I bought a "first horse" from a dealer who shall remain nameless. I, like you, had been out of riding for several years and wanted a confidence builder. The cob that I bought turned out to have several issues which had not been apparent when I bought him due to some creative selling.
He was fab to hack but bucked constantly when asked to work in a school. I knew he had been in a riding school at some point in his past and had scars from rubbing ill fitting tack. I desperately wanted to keep him and work through the problems. I saw vets, riding instructors, physios, nutritionists and a behaviourist/trainer. I bought a new saddle after a lengthy fitting and tried everything I could think of. He turned out not to be in pain, but we didn't ever get past the bucking in the school. After 2 years I felt that trying to keep pushing him wasn't the right thing for either of us. He is now in a lovely home with lots of company and hacks out twice a week. He now has the home he needed and I now have a more suitable equine companion.

If it doesn't work out please don't feel that you have failed. There is a right horse for you and a right home for her even if they don't turn out to be one and the same.
Good luck