First horsebox (3.5t) advice?

Embo

Embo

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Hi all, just after some advice from you wise lot!

I'm now in a position where I want to buy my own box. I've been lucky enough to have a friend transport me about in her trailer for a few years now. She is sadly giving up horses so will be selling her truck & trailer once her horse has sold, so I'm going to take the plunge and get my own transport.

I've weighed up my options & costs, including doing Cat C test or buying a trailer & upgrading to a towing car, or simply just hiring. After lengthy discussions with friends and my OH, I've decided that getting a 3.5t lorry is best option for me for now.

So I'm currently looking around to see what's available. The market is flooded with van conversions. It's likely that I will go for one of these as that's what is readily available.

I will only be travelling my horse who is 15.3hh (but chunky) and weighs around 550KG. He's excellent to load and travel. I've seen a few VW LT35 trucks, and I just love the look of these, but the payload on them tends to be around 800kg max, which could be a bit tight (I'm wary, not really knowing how much tack, fuel, water, loads of other kit and 2x people would realistically weigh!). I have a modest budget, so don't want anything new, and not concerned about bells or whistles!

My biggest concern is safety, followed by payload. Any advice, pros/cons regarding these types of boxes is appreciated. What should I look out for? Which conversion companies are the best (and which to avoid)? If you have one, do you like it? Not like it?

I'm not in any rush at all and will wait for the right box, but I'd love to hear what you all think! :)
 
I would think that payload would be a little bit too low. I have a renault master van conversion with a 1.1 payload. I travel 1 14.2 highland who is similar in weight to your horse. If you add your weight, weight of half a tank of diesel, tack+ water+ any other bits and pieces to it, 800 will be very tight I think. I love mine, its an 04 plate and Ive had it 4 years, its easy to drive, park and manouvre, easy on your own, ramp nice and light as it splits in 2. They are also quite low to the ground so they are nice and stable and the horse doesnt get rocked around in transit.
 
I just don’t really stress about payload although I believe mine has 1000kg, I mostly travel one small horse. Most of these small boxes are actually built at a 3.9t capacity, which they are perfectly capable of being- to update them is often just a paper exercise. You hear rumours of people being stopped and weighed but I’ve never actually heard of a factual account of it.

I can never understand why there is such hype about payload on the 3.5 tonnes when so many people seem to merrily drive 7.5 tonnes well overweight.

Personally would rather have a solid, coach built box and risk being slightly overweight than one of the flimsy built ones that have massive payloads and compromise safety.

I have a 1998 racemaster and it’s fantastic, taken a huge Amount or kicking in the past and it’s so sturdy and safe. I have an anti jump barrier fitted too.
 
Michen said:
I just don’t really stress about payload although I believe mine has 1000kg, I mostly travel one small horse. Most of these small boxes are actually built at a 3.9t capacity, which they are perfectly capable of being- to update them is often just a paper exercise. You hear rumours of people being stopped and weighed but I’ve never actually heard of a factual account of it.

I can never understand why there is such hype about payload on the 3.5 tonnes when so many people seem to merrily drive 7.5 tonnes well overweight.

Personally would rather have a solid, coach built box and risk being slightly overweight than one of the flimsy built ones that have massive payloads and compromise safety.

I have a 1998 racemaster and it’s fantastic, taken a huge Amount or kicking in the past and it’s so sturdy and safe. I have an anti jump barrier fitted too.
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The hype about any lorry being over weight is the stopping capacity. If a 3.5 tonne can be uprated to 3.9 tonnes it needs to pass a plating versus and MOT and normally will need brakes strengthening, and a change in springs.

I think there is a 10% tolerance, before you are prosecuted if caught being over weight, so think you could travel 3.85tonne in a 3.5 tonne lorry and get away with it.

But go over this, and get caught (and I know a number of people who have been stopped and weighed in 3.5 and 7.5 tonne) and you will be fined!
 
My first bit of advice is to make sure the internal horse area is not too long as I had an issue when I bought my first 3.5t kingfisher it would take a 7’3 rug well my biggest is 6’3 and also had the anti weave grills which made it very awkward and it was too short to to tie them on the horse side of the grills and too long for them to put there heads through so in the end we ended up boxing the horses area off as even with the grills we had an issue because there was so much front end room of my one rearing up and over luckily he wasn’t hurt but he did break my arm when I lifted him off the breast bar and didn’t move my arm out the way quick enough when he dropped himself back down! Also depending on your budget if you can please go coach built as they are safer! As I don’t think a van would of stood up to the abuse mine gave the coach built!!

Try and get one with an aluminium floor if you can

Also in the master vans check the suspension spring mountings as these rot through and are costly to repair and are not safe to be driven if rotten! Oh and the door sills under the plastic they rot really badly!

And if you go older it will need driving at least once a week to prevent seizing the older master vans have a diesel pump that you have pump manually if it’s stood for a while!

I kept mine for a few years but started competing less and less as the repair bills became more expensive.

I took my trailer test in the end after having a single trailer and I can say the trailer has never wanted for anything where as the box was a bit of a pain
 
Michen said:
I just don’t really stress about payload although I believe mine has 1000kg, I mostly travel one small horse. Most of these small boxes are actually built at a 3.9t capacity, which they are perfectly capable of being- to update them is often just a paper exercise. You hear rumours of people being stopped and weighed but I’ve never actually heard of a factual account of it.

I can never understand why there is such hype about payload on the 3.5 tonnes when so many people seem to merrily drive 7.5 tonnes well overweight.
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I think the risk of being stopped and weighed partly depends on the area you're in. At the end of the M4 (Wales end - J49) you frequently see VOSA and the police working together to pull vehicles into the services. I see them there at least once a week, more often in the summer. I suppose if you live in an area and know that VOSA have never been there it would be easier to take the risk as there's less chance of being caught like that.

However, if you were in an accident with an overloaded box and this was found to be a contributing factor I think you'd have legal trouble (e.g. lorry is 3.5 ton but weight loaded is 3.9 and only a standard car license) as you'd be driving without a license and correct insurance.

I do agree with your second point though!
 
I have an lt35 and absolutely love it. It is my second one and they have both had 1-1.1t payload (although need to re-weigh mine as have made some alterations). Although you generally only see old ones so if you have a budget for something newer, go for it. I would be wary about only 800kg payload as although it sounds fine if you go to a stay away show for e.g you will struggle to stay in limit. In terms of payload, I would never knowingly go over as it's not what the vehicle was designed for and as already mentioned it will effect braking/stopping distance and puts you in a sticky position insurance wise. Check the horse area carefully, especially the floor and bulkhead. Alot of the new lightweight boxes are light because are also flimsy.
Mine is a 1990 and always starts even after a few weeks sat still, but obviously it's not ideal and you need to be taking it out at least fortnightly
 
Michen said:
I can never understand why there is such hype about payload on the 3.5 tonnes when so many people seem to merrily drive 7.5 tonnes well overweight.
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It's not hype. If you drive a 3.5t OR a 7.5t overweight, you are invalidating your insurance. If you have a prang, even if it's not your fault, you have no insurance cover.

Simples.
 
Tiddlypom said:
It's not hype. If you drive a 3.5t OR a 7.5t overweight, you are invalidating your insurance. If you have a prang, even if it's not your fault, you have no insurance cover.

Simples.
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My point is that there is a huge amount of discussion about 3.5 payloads, look at any advert and if not stated people will ask, require weighbridge certificates etc. You don’t see the same level of questioning/documentation requirements with the bigger lorries, people seem to just assume that payload is not an issue there when actually a huge number of them have payloads a lot smaller than you would think and even with two horses can be overweight.

Edited to add also weighbridges aren’t always accurate. I remember Travel Two (Polly) saying she had weighed one at two different bridges with no change in driver/fuel etc and the difference was several hundred kilograms.
 
Michen said:
Edited to add also weighbridges aren’t always accurate. I remember Travel Two (Polly) saying she had weighed one at two different bridges with no change in driver/fuel etc and the difference was several hundred kilograms.
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You should always ask to see the paperwork and certificate for calibration from weights & measures and understand the tolerance of a weighbridge plus the units it measures in (10kg? 20kg or what?) If you use a maintained public weighbridge there should be no discrepancy of several hundred kg full stop. Use some of the private long pads and well that's a totally different story. This is why when purchasing a lorry and being shown a weight certificate it is important to understand who issued it and what was/wasn't on board at the time. Best of all is to ensure that your test drive incorporates a visit to the nearest public weighbridge.
 
DirectorFury said:
I think the risk of being stopped and weighed partly depends on the area you're in. At the end of the M4 (Wales end - J49) you frequently see VOSA and the police working together to pull vehicles into the services. I see them there at least once a week, more often in the summer. I suppose if you live in an area and know that VOSA have never been there it would be easier to take the risk as there's less chance of being caught like that.
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^^ this :) i pass a VOSA weighbridge most times I'm out in the box and they are often there calling lorries in. I've been stopped twice in a 7.5t truck so overweight big lorries are definitely in my consciousness too!

I've known a couple of people with the LT35s OP, they have tended to be a bit of an unstable ride compared to the lower centre of gravity provided by the converted vans, one in particular really rolled around and the horse must have been a complete saint to keep getting back in!

I also have an old racemaster coachbuilt with a climb barrier and love it, not fancy but solid and the horses travel well. You can retrofit a climb barrier into anything really so don't stress if you can't find one with it already. I wouldn't use any rear facing box without one of some kind,( or a full wall). just not worth the risk.

Only thing I'd change would be to have an external tack locker, drives me nuts getting in and out to get my kit out :D
 
I have a 2008 Movano van conversion i had built in 2014, converted with the lightest materials but with full bulk head and floor reinforcement, with a calibrated weight certificate of 1250kg (checked twice)
There's no way an older LT35 van has an accurate weight cert of over 1000kg imo. The chassis alone is heavier than a LWB van from my research. My friends LT35 shocked her when it weighed in at only a 500kg payload - it had no living or anything!

I researched for weeks & weeks before having mine built, and viewed photos and videos of the work along the way. I have a safety exit too which i wouldn't be without.


I have had an older Renault Master conversion before too, there will be plenty of vans in your price range. Usual checks required such as floor, and try and buy one that has been done by a company that is still operating and that you can speak to.
 
Thanks all for advice so far. Interesting discussion RE: payload, all points noted. As I mentioned, safety is my number one concern, but I don't want to knowingly break the law (or possibly risk safety by going over) so will be keeping it in mind.

Also interesting points about LT35s, it didn't even cross my mind that it might be an unstable ride for the horse so definitely food for thought.

What would the rough cost be to get an anti-jump partition added? As most boxes I've seen do not have this and it's something I would want to do. I can see the benefits of an external tack locker, but I do travel B saddled so probably less of an issue for me!

I did see an older thread on here about Racemaster conversions (I know Michen and Milliepops both have them) and I know they have an excellent reputation. Sadly they appear to be quite rare on the market and I can't afford a new conversion :( so any other companies I should be looking out for?

Loads to consider still, please keep all your nuggets of wisdom coming! Really appreciate it :)
 
Here’s mine, it cost about £550 and was done by racemaster. It doesn’t stop them rearing and certainly the hooves don’t just slide off, Bog was quite effective at rearing on it and staying up there until he decided to come down (thankfully it’s been nearly a year since that sort of behaviour!)



Marlborough’s are very good, Chaigley, etc. I have seen the odd old racemaster up for sale perhaps once a month or so. Are you on the 3.5 tonne group on fb?




Embo said:
Thanks all for advice so far. Interesting discussion RE: payload, all points noted. As I mentioned, safety is my number one concern, but I don't want to knowingly break the law (or possibly risk safety by going over) so will be keeping it in mind.

Also interesting points about LT35s, it didn't even cross my mind that it might be an unstable ride for the horse so definitely food for thought.

What would the rough cost be to get an anti-jump partition added? As most boxes I've seen do not have this and it's something I would want to do. I can see the benefits of an external tack locker, but I do travel B saddled so probably less of an issue for me!

I did see an older thread on here about Racemaster conversions (I know Michen and Milliepops both have them) and I know they have an excellent reputation. Sadly they appear to be quite rare on the market and I can't afford a new conversion :( so any other companies I should be looking out for?

Loads to consider still, please keep all your nuggets of wisdom coming! Really appreciate it :)
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If you get an older box be prepared for a lot of welding being done, also find a garage that understands 3.5 tons as horse boxes. I took my old one to one garage who tried to write it off as it needed some welding as to them as a 3.5 lorry it was worth very little. As a horse box the couple of hundred I paid for welding was well worth it (three years ago and hasn't needed anymore since)

Take and mechanic with you if a private sale to check it over.

Join the 3.5 ton lorries for sale groups on FB. Also I know bloomfields will advertise customers boxes regardless of make so worth joining a few manufacturers FBs too.

Check the floor, aluminium the ideal but hex board or well maintained marine ply can be good too.

Make sure bulkhwad reinforced! And not just the min, it's all that's between you and several hundred kilos of horse!

When I I picked up new box I was told the grace for being over was 3% so 105kgs, I believe it's only 5% over that you get fined etc.

I also think it's nuts how much people worry and try their best to be legal with 3.5 tonners yet large 7.5 lorries are rarely subject to the same scrutiny and I assume the damage it's possible to cause in an overweight 7.5 would be terrible.

Eta, nawwww Boggle :D
 
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ElleSkywalker said:
If you get an older box be prepared for a lot of welding being done, also find a garage that understands 3.5 tons as horse boxes. I took my old one to one garage who tried to write it off as it needed some welding as to them as a 3.5 lorry it was worth very little. As a horse box the couple of hundred I paid for welding was well worth it (three years ago and hasn't needed anymore since)

Take and mechanic with you if a private sale to check it over.

Join the 3.5 ton lorries for sale groups on FB. Also I know bloomfields will advertise customers boxes regardless of make so worth joining a few manufacturers FBs too.

Check the floor, aluminium the ideal but hex board or well maintained marine ply can be good too.

Make sure bulkhwad reinforced! And not just the min, it's all that's between you and several hundred kilos of horse!

When I I picked up new box I was told the grace for being over was 3% so 105kgs, I believe it's only 5% over that you get fined etc.

I also think it's nuts how much people worry and try their best to be legal with 3.5 tonners yet large 7.5 lorries are rarely subject to the same scrutiny and I assume the damage it's possible to cause in an overweight 7.5 would be terrible.

Eta, nawwww Boggle :D
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Yes agreed!! Bog dealt a single, angry whopping kick behind my head the other day (had a haynet of hay not haylage...disaster) and my ears were quite literally ringing from it, the impact I felt was unreal and the racemaster bulkheads are some of the best out there supposedly!
 
Thanks, Michen. Aw, look at Boggle, he's so cute! The partition looks good, how on earth did he get his legs up there!? Not something mine has ever done, but obvs can't say he never would! Have seen a video on FB recently about bulkheads, someone replacing a floor and had to remove the bulkhead and found that it was barely reinforced at all. Really scary.

Thanks ESW for notes on welding - I am budgeting a small amount for work to be done on an older box if needed, I will be keeping this in mind. I don't know any mechanics, so hopefully I can find someone who does pre-purchase inspections when the time comes!

Yes, I'm on the 3.5 group on FB, am checking it daily! Annoying as it's country-wide, I see something I like then notice it's at the other end of the country :P lol

I imagine I'll be sick of looking at lorries by the time I find one :D
 
Sheer determination and also by denting the roof. The horse area is roomy and he’s only little, so he learnt to back up and launch himself up on the anti jump barrier. Absolutely terrifying but that behaviour is long gone thankfully. It was very much tested when my lorry broke down the other week and we were stranded for hours but I didn’t hear a peep from him :p

Will keep my eyes out for lorry as well, whereabouts in the country are you?

It’s a depressing minefield and I was seriously lucky to find ESW box through horse and hound!!!!

Embo said:
Thanks, Michen. Aw, look at Boggle, he's so cute! The partition looks good, how on earth did he get his legs up there!? Not something mine has ever done, but obvs can't say he never would! Have seen a video on FB recently about bulkheads, someone replacing a floor and had to remove the bulkhead and found that it was barely reinforced at all. Really scary.

Thanks ESW for notes on welding - I am budgeting a small amount for work to be done on an older box if needed, I will be keeping this in mind. I don't know any mechanics, so hopefully I can find someone who does pre-purchase inspections when the time comes!

Yes, I'm on the 3.5 group on FB, am checking it daily! Annoying as it's country-wide, I see something I like then notice it's at the other end of the country :P lol

I imagine I'll be sick of looking at lorries by the time I find one :D
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Embo it is a nightmare looking for lorries and you will be an utter expert by the time you find one! I used to spend around 500 a year on my old one for various bits and bobs, the very second Michen brought it it decided to behave and has sailed thro it's mot's with her :D so it's luck of the draw. Budget for it and you might be lucky.

Whereabouts roughly are you? A van conversation has come on up bloomfields FB today. It looks quite nice for a good single traveller :)
 
To be fair she does have £500 quid worth of advisories (must get those done lol- something to do with the ball joint!) on last MOT and she did cause me a whopping £260 bill the other week :p

Still I love Sybil but I do have to keep the radio loud as prefer not to hear her old lady creaks. I actually considered selling her a few weeks ago and upgrading but frankly couldn’t see the point just to have something newer and shinier.


ElleSkywalker said:
Embo it is a nightmare looking for lorries and you will be an utter expert by the time you find one! I used to spend around 500 a year on my old one for various bits and bobs, the very second Michen brought it it decided to behave and has sailed thro it's mot's with her :D so it's luck of the draw. Budget for it and you might be lucky.

Whereabouts roughly are you? A van conversation has come on up bloomfields FB today. It looks quite nice for a good single traveller :)
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Thank you Michen & ESW!

I'm in the South East (Orpington, Kent) but I would do a bit of travelling for the right box!

ETS - yes, I saw that one on Bloomfields, I like the tack locker and the partitioning. Just not sure I'm sold on the panel van type conversions!
 
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I had a solid climb barrier instead of one with bars, I thought Kira (who was an iffy traveller) would be safer if she couldn't see though it

29244324_1878186782192823_5266886157060276224_n.jpg


if you haven't already, I would recommend giving Polly at Traveltwo a bell to see if she has anything in budget. I found her really helpful when I was looking, i was far, far below the bottom of her range but she knew my box as had sold it previously, so tipped me off when it came on the market when a returning customer came for an upgrade. I did have to drop everything and leg it across the country but was worth it :)

Sent you a PM with one to avoid!
 
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Amused that your pony is matchy with your lorry 😂

milliepops said:
I had a solid climb barrier instead of one with bars, I thought Kira (who was an iffy traveller) would be safer if she couldn't see though it

29244324_1878186782192823_5266886157060276224_n.jpg


if you haven't already, I would recommend giving Polly at Traveltwo a bell to see if she has anything in budget. I found her really helpful when I was looking, i was far, far below the bottom of her range but she knew my box as had sold it previously, so tipped me off when it came on the market when a returning customer came for an upgrade. I did have to drop everything and leg it across the country but was worth it :)
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We got our framewelded by an ironworker which cost us £150 we had it reinforced and welded to the original frame for which he did for a cup of tea (friend of hubby)

My other half then purchased grp boards (think that’s the name) and cut to fit think the boards were a lot guess same as the frame.

I then bought some second hand horse box windows and other half was back out with the jigsaw cutting extra windows in the horse area! For about £30

I think bought a mirror (for use in stables) riveted it to the new partition (well hubby did) and well what do you know no more still episodes not sure if it made it feel roomier or what but our once nightmare traveller would happily munch away looking at his own reflection

Oh and I had to get a new partition locator which had to be made as the old one was too long and the wrong fitment
So we had a spring one added to the bottom to affix to the floor and the same added at the top to affix to the new partition.

When I sold ours it was quite scary the amount of calls we got I think there was 23in one day, with the people who missed out getting quite angry.
So my advice move quickly on the right box as the ones that are on for more than a week are usually the bad ones!
Also I second the weights once ours was redone inside it brought our payload down to 890kg so an up to date cert is a must
If the seller is genuine they won’t mind lots of questions as they probably would have been the same when they first bought it!
 
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