'Flaking' hooves

[cptrayes]

Alfalfa and grazing, plus carrots sometimes, as far as I'm aware.

I think the horse probably needs a mineral balancer from the look of its feet. I would also personally not feed carrots or alfalfa as I know of a lot of horses who cannot tolerate one or the other, or both.

I'm sorry no farriers have answered your question, but perhaps it will help if I explain why I came to the conclusion that I did. First I looked at what was showing behind the broken wall, and it was rough but pretty level. When the white line is infected and the hoof wall breaks away what is left behind is the dead laminae which usually appears as very obvious thin vertical lines like the pagers of a damp book.

Then I looked at the sole shot, picked up the white line on the sides and followed it to the toe, and it appeared to me that the white line was not compromised in any big way right around the foot, and although the broken off toe goes very close to it, it is not into it.

My uinderstanding, which may be incorrect, is that seedy toe is a term used only to describe infection of the white line at the toe, and therefore I would not have described the problem in your photograph as seedy toe, but as hoof wall separation, where the outer hoof wall splits from the inner hoof wall. In my experience, this split shows as a black line when you rasp it back, but it does not appear to be infected, and no amount of disinfection has stopped it happening in the two horses which I have had with it. Both stopped after four months of hoof growth on a good diet.

I hope this helps. I don't know what supplements you have available over there, but at the very least I'd try to get a general vitamin and mineral supplement into the horse.

 

[A Guilding]

I'm not a vet, so I haven't personally x-rayed any feet! I have seen x-rays of hooves like this, however (and seen the hooves in the flesh). There was nothing of what you describe on the x-ray because, like these hooves, the problem wasn't the white line. The hooves I'm talking about resolved quickly with a correct diet.

You know nothing about me, A Guilding, so please don't make assumptions as to where I'm getting my information. I would also suggest a little humility on your part wouldn't go amiss - you can't diagnose everything based on some pictures on the internet, and to use your 'authority' as a farrier to suggest you always know what's wrong with a hoof just by looking at a photo is misleading and can cause people to make some bad decisions.

I dont do humility! especially not at you.

 

[paddy555]

It has had seedy toe. I generally re-sect that, or at least window it at the top so meds can be applied. I did one at the vets last week on x-ray you can see how far up the separation extends. On yours it probably extends to the top of that crack.

as I also see what has been described by CPTrayes then is the above advice incorrect ie the re-secting would be unecessary?

 

[LucyPriory]

I come to this a bit late but I don't see seedy toe either (photos can be misleading). I agree with CPTrayes - it looks more like the outer and inner hoof wall has separated.

I've dealt with this before, one where the separation went right the way up. Didn't find the need to remove any outer hoof wall, but did instigate diet change, exercise change (upped the amount and introduced road work) and soaked the hay. Took time to grow out but there were never any lameness issues from this.

 

[A Guilding]

I think the horse probably needs a mineral balancer from the look of its feet. I would also personally not feed carrots or alfalfa as I know of a lot of horses who cannot tolerate one or the other, or both.

I'm sorry no farriers have answered your question, but perhaps it will help if I explain why I came to the conclusion that I did. First I looked at what was showing behind the broken wall, and it was rough but pretty level. When the white line is infected and the hoof wall breaks away what is left behind is the dead laminae which usually appears as very obvious thin vertical lines like the pagers of a damp book.

Then I looked at the sole shot, picked up the white line on the sides and followed it to the toe, and it appeared to me that the white line was not compromised in any big way right around the foot, and although the broken off toe goes very close to it, it is not into it.

My uinderstanding, which may be incorrect, is that seedy toe is a term used only to describe infection of the white line at the toe, and therefore I would not have described the problem in your photograph as seedy toe, but as hoof wall separation, where the outer hoof wall splits from the inner hoof wall. In my experience, this split shows as a black line when you rasp it back, but it does not appear to be infected, and no amount of disinfection has stopped it happening in the two horses which I have had with it. Both stopped after four months of hoof growth on a good diet.

I hope this helps. I don't know what supplements you have available over there, but at the very least I'd try to get a general vitamin and mineral supplement into the horse.

There are different pathogens that arnt area specific but come under broad brush terms. White line disease is generally fungal but can have bacterial infections to, this is usually visible from the solar view and just the white line involved. As you know the white line grows from the the papillae on the ends of the sensitive laminae so from the distal fringe of p3. this soft area of horn also known as the white zone performs the important job of glueing the sole to the wall with a flexible junction. this specific term white line disease is also called seedy toe. However when the seedy toe extends to the coronary band we dont call it white line disease. I class seedy toe as a bacterial usally but sometimes inconjuction with fungal. The clinical features in simple cases the cavity only affects the lower portion of the hoof wall but in serious cases may extend up to the coronary band, lameness can be caused by infection or the packing or dirt trapped in this region. I know this hos is sound but I would still take off the front that isnt attached or functional. And yes the white line is involved in this case, by the fact that the wall is worn away exposing the upper third of the white line.
The Crack that has appeared at the front of the foot that travels up and down is also interesting. I do believe that is the result of a few different things, the void behind the crack has left the stratum externum to function on its own, this area is more rigid than the stratum medium of the wall there are four zones of the dorsal wall that vary in tubular density, coupled together they form a composite that mixes toughness stiffness and tensile strength. If you look at hookes law of elasticity you will see what happens when a structure reaches the point on the curve where it exceeds its elasticity, it fails and fractures. It is entirely possible in fact very likely that poor diet affects the tensile properties of the hoof wall. It is possible that it will grow out with good diet but I still think that removing the wall to a point that it became unified and clean will ensure that pathogens that will be present and grit and sand dont perpetuate the 3 way crack.

 

[A Guilding]

as I also see what has been described by CPTrayes then is the above advice incorrect ie the re-secting would be unecessary?

I would have another look at picture 3, the separation of the white line is very visible. these areas arnt separated by different post codes they involve pathogens in adjoining structures. The saving grace for this horse is the dry climate. Imagine if it were in a muddy paddock in Kent.

 

[cptrayes]

I would have another look at picture 3, the separation of the white line is very visible. these areas arnt separated by different post codes they involve pathogens in adjoining structures. The saving grace for this horse is the dry climate. Imagine if it were in a muddy paddock in Kent.

Sorry AG I don't see what you are seeing. When I have seen white line disease I have always seen the dead laminae and I don't see them in that photo.

Maybe I just haven't seen enough WLD but it still looks like HWSS to me.

You will see from my earlier post that I would also remove the unattached wall to expose any pathogens to oxygen, but I've ever seen it go that high, so I've never removed hoof wall that high either.

 

[amandap]

PF, read post 26 (by Fintan) on this page about alfalfa. The owner will have to check it but I thought it might be relevant or part of the picture for this horse.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=606692&page=3

 

[TwoStroke]

I dont do humility! especially not at you.

That's because you are arrogant and obnoxious. Oh, and ignorant, let's not forget that one .