Flash and Pelham? Would you?

BlizzardBudd

BlizzardBudd

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would you use a flash strap with a pelham? :confused:
i am just wondering because i have a (noviceyy) friend who was riding a horse in a pelham and a flash strap..
said horse is ridden everyday in a pelham as was difficult to stop, but she doesnt open her mouth really either..
 
I used it on my hunter after seeing Mary King using one.
He was very happy in it and I was relaxed so we used to have a smashing time.
When I rode him in a gag or any other type he was a nightmare.
 
my horse has been ridden in a pelham and flash and he is now riden in a pelham and grackle and yes he does open his mouth and cross his jaw and it doesnt interfer with the curb chain at all :)
 
It is not correct to do so.

The flash strap sits in the chin groove where the curb chain should be - this then forces the curbchain upwards causing the chain to lie against the jawbones which is painful for the horse.
 
Yeah... I mean, why do you need a flash if you have a curb chain??

Unlesssss......... you have a jointed pelham. Probably THE most useless bit ever invented.
 
SpottedCat said:
Do feel free to come and take my horse XC, he would disagree with you....
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Ok maybe not useless... wrong word... just erm.... unintelligent :D

A joint and a curb negate each others action, but if you can xc in a jointed pelham, why aren't you doing it in just a normal snaffle?
 
No I wouldn,t use a flash strap with a pelham. I have a curb chain on my gelding and it would interfere with that .


Being trained old school we were taught it is not correct to do so . My gelding does open his mouth sometimes to evade the bit in the snaffle but doesn't try it with the curb chain so I have no need to try the flash
I use the pelham when out hack to give more control. I don't see the need of the flash strap when you have the use of the curb chain . I have sometimes use the cavason part of the nose band as I don't have a cob size nose-band that I am prepared to use as the only one I do have is on his double bridle.


If my horse had a mouthing problem and opened his mouth allot I would probably use the flash but with another bit .
 
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tallyho! said:
Ok maybe not useless... wrong word... just erm.... unintelligent :D

A joint and a curb negate each others action, but if you can xc in a jointed pelham, why aren't you doing it in just a normal snaffle?
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Because I like my life. I produced this horse from a 5yo up to Novice BE, and believe me, we started in a snaffle. He is very well schooled on the flat, regularly gets over 70% eventing, but when his blood is up, you have absolutely no hope of holding* him XC in a snaffle.

*In fact I don't mean holding him - it's just that he would take so long to come back to you that instead of a light rebalance before a fence, which is what I can do at the moment, you'd have to start bringing him back so far in front of the fence you'd ride every round with a double handful and you'd never ever make the time. You could still stop him, it would just all be much less pleasant. There is only so much you can do with bodyweight when you're five foot nothing on a big 16.2.

The joint and the curb don't fully negate the action at all - because the horse has a solid jaw bone in the way and anyway, the action on the rein isn't one which brings both halves of the bit together under the jaw (thus slackening the curb), so the curb does indeed come into play.

However, if you want to come and have a go XC in a snaffle, be my guest! ;)

BTW - it has nothing to do with my riding/schooling abilities either, the other horse I produced and recently sold did absolutely everything in a snaffle, drop noseband and no martingale, including XC. Didn't have half the talent of this one, but was a lovely horse all the same.
 
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Fany is in a flash and pelham. Flash because she crosses her jaw and opens her mouth to evade the bit, also can get her tongue over her bit.It is never done up tightly just snug. Pelham (Mullen) because the breaks can be dodgy at times and she is a strong horse. So I agree with Stormy moments. Works for us at present, although working/schooling towards a snaffle bit and a cavesson noseband as a better combo.
FDC
 
SpottedCat said:
Because I like my life. I produced this horse from a 5yo up to Novice BE, and believe me, we started in a snaffle. He is very well schooled on the flat, regularly gets over 70% eventing, but when his blood is up, you have absolutely no hope of holding him XC in a snaffle.

The joint and the curb don't fully negate the action at all - because the horse has a solid jaw bone in the way and anyway, the action on the rein isn't one which brings both halves of the bit together under the jaw (thus slackening the curb), so the curb does indeed come into play.

However, if you want to come and have a go XC in a snaffle, be my guest! ;)

BTW - it has nothing to do with my riding/schooling abilities either, the other horse I produced and recently sold did absolutely everything in a snaffle, drop noseband and no martingale, including XC. Didn't have half the talent of this one, but was a lovely horse all the same.
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no it's ok, no need to get defensive spotted cat, I wasn't beng personal towards you. I don't know what you do. This is a forum and I was merely stating my opinion on pelhams and flashes which I don't agree with.

I don't agree with jointed pelhams and that wasn't aimed at you. How could it be? yes I have used one in my lifetime.

I believe in each to their own and glad you're doing well. Good for you.

I take mine xc and hunt but could never hold mine in a jointed bit for that kind of sport.
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
This. Maybe horses should be schooled to listen?
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Mine is being schooled to listen, but in the meantime she likes hacking out and needs brakes, a horse on a road with out brakes is an accident waiting to happen. So one size doesn't fit all! My lad, who is nicely schooled, is ridden in a snaffle and Cavesson noseband, it is about suiting the horse and what it is doing to the kit you use. Please don't judge.
FDC
 
tallyho! said:
no it's ok, no need to get defensive spotted cat, I wasn't beng personal towards you. I don't know what you do. This is a forum and I was merely stating my opinion on pelhams and flashes which I don't agree with.

I don't agree with jointed pelhams and that wasn't aimed at you. How could it be? yes I have used one in my lifetime.

I believe in each to their own and glad you're doing well. Good for you.

I take mine xc and hunt but could never hold mine in a jointed bit for that kind of sport.
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I wasn't at all being defensive, honestly. I trust my judgement.

But you can't expect to say that they negate the action when they really don't. Change the action, yes, negate it, no. And the action is totally different from a snaffle.

I only put the last bit in as HHO seems to be a mecca for people who live in this lovely world where if only we all schooled our horses properly, every single horse would do everything in a snaffle and cavesson, and if only we tried a bit harder, we could probably ditch those too ;) Nice idea, but not exactly realistic... (and I'm not saying you think that....but other people really do!)
 
SpottedCat said:
I only put the last bit in as HHO seems to be a mecca for people who live in this lovely world where if only we all schooled our horses properly, every single horse would do everything in a snaffle and cavesson, and if only we tried a bit harder, we could probably ditch those too ;) Nice idea, but not exactly realistic... (and I'm not saying you think that....but other people really do!)
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Absolutely agree. It really is horses for courses, suit the kit to the horse in front of you and its needs and you won't go too far wrong.
FDC
 
Fany Du Champ said:
Absolutely agree. It really is horses for courses, suit the kit to the horse in front of you and its needs and you won't go too far wrong.
FDC
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Mine has a mexican grakle to go with his useless jointed pelham. And I ride in spurs. And a martingale.

Shall we tick off how many 'cardinal sins of HHO' I am committing?! ;) :D
 
Only in NL it seems its a cardinal sin - luckily common sense prevails in other areas of the forum.
 
Hmm.. well it does change the action... and it still negates the the true action of a pelham which then means it's no longer a pelham... oh well. Nevermind, just the way I weigh things up and I am known as a bit of a purist. Albeit one that doesn't ride in just a snaffle...... whoops :D

Anyway, spottedcat, I don't want to argue, I hope we can agree to disagree :)
 
saddlesore said:
Yes. Don't see the problem with it and never had an issue with the flash strap getting in the way of the curb chain! :rolleyes:
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Next time you do it up notice where your curb chain is lying!

The curb chain is supposed to sit in the chin groove but cannot if you have a flash strap in there! Therefore your curb chain rides up onto the jawbone!
 
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