Flash nosebands ..are they necessary?

Sussexbythesea - I have up trying to defend the use of flashes (which have a use) when pale rider was querying the abilities of WFP. Bit silly really, unless pale rider is mark Todd or Mary king etc. ;)
 
I won't use flashes. I put my big mare in a drop noseband after a suggestion from a trainer to solve a problem and now that she and I understand each other better and have worked through it she's back in a plain cavesson. I think you'll find that drop nosebands are becoming more common now - as they were in my youth.
 
I would agree that there is a use for flash straps, but as with so many other pieces of "correctional" equipment, most people seem either not to know what they are really for, or assume that they work for the assumed purpose when in fact they do not. Take running martingales for instance, which come as standard equipment with just about every horse here in Ireland. "What's that for?" I'll ask, disengenously, and get one of two replies: "Dunno", or "stops him chucking his head up". Well, it really doesn't. What it does do is act as a pully thus increasing the pressure on the mouth exponentially, perhaps it gives more control, but not in a way I would want.
 
They are an abomination IMO.

It drives me mad that so many bridles are sold with a flash nose-band, instead of a cavesson. I maintain that if a horse is opening its mouth, it is trying to tell you something, namely that it is uncomfortable in its mouth. Therefore you should be investigating its teeth/bit - not strapping its bl**dy mouth shut!
 
I love flash bridles. I have a huge supply of unused flash straps that I use to mend other broken bits of tack :) I never use them to tie a horse's mouth shut these days. I agree with Pearl above.

One of the reasons that they have become so popular is that a grackle is not permitted for dressage and you often see them fitted with a high cavesson doing pretty much exactly what a grackle would.

There's nothing wrong with crank nosebands. I find them much easier to manage than the simple ones, the thick nosebands suit my big horses and no-one holds a gun to my head to make me "crank" it up too tight :D




ps it is possible just to cut the loop off with a craft knife and leave yourself with a cavesson and since flash bridles are the same price, I do that to get the "free" strap.
 
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cptrayes said:
I love flash bridles. I have a huge supply of unused flash straps that I use to mend other broken bits of tack :) I never use them to tie a horse's mouth shut these days. I agree with Pearl above.

One of the reasons that they have become so popular is that a grackle is not permitted for dressage and you often see them fitted with a high cavesson doing pretty much exactly what a grackle would.

There's nothing wrong with crank nosebands. I find them much easier to manage than the simple ones, the thick nosebands suit my big horses and no-one holds a gun to my head to make me "crank" it up too tight :D




ps it is possible just to cut the loop off with a craft knife and leave yourself with a cavesson and since flash bridles are the same price, I do that to get the "free" strap.
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Agree, I love them too - you don't "have" to make them tight, do you. I flat out refused to let an instructor tighten my horse's noseband, what kind of an instruction was that? I want to train it, not torture it.
 
I have found many uses for flash straps in the past! And none of them to strap a horses mouth shut!

I think the best one I ever did, in my eyes anyway! Was take every single flash strap off of all the brand new bridles at work, connect them together and them handed them to on of the jocks to use as a neck strap when jumping a youngster :D :D See! They can be useful :D :D :D
 
If I am not using the pelham on the Appy, then she tends to be in a drop noseband. She seems to find some sort of comfort zone with having something in her chin groove. I do not like flashes and if a bridle comes with one, then I will remove it.
 
EKW said:
I have found many uses for flash straps in the past! And none of them to strap a horses mouth shut!

I think the best one I ever did, in my eyes anyway! Was take every single flash strap off of all the brand new bridles at work, connect them together and them handed them to on of the jocks to use as a neck strap when jumping a youngster :D :D See! They can be useful :D :D :D
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OK you started, so lets add to

101 good uses for a flash strap -

- use as a leather curb strap (did it out hunting in an emergency once when the horse shook off the chain.

- replacement breastplate straps or extender straps for a breastplate that's too small. (got four in use for that purpose at the moment)

- tying gates shut when the horse has worked out how to pull back the spring handle

- making a D to D handle to hang onto if you're on a feisty horse

- emergency pelham roundings

- dog collars

..
 
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Yup! Used them as replacement bits of breastplates and breastgirths too!

- For Draw Reins! Instead of putting the loops onto the girth you use flash straps thus you can take them off and put them on as and when needed without having to undo your girth.

- Fixing broken bits of headcollars.

- keeping all of my spare bits together.

Continue peeps ...
 
I've read all this and sat here thinking - are nose bands necessary at all?? My friends in the US never use nose bands unless they are replacing the bit. Just breaking in one of my youngsters and have not bothered with a nose band (primarily because it didn't fit, but having a piece of iron in their mouth is one drama for them, strapping the mouth down on it is another). Just looking at my families old pics of their horses, and unless it was for dress purposes (my grandpa drove the carriage for Queen Victoria when she visited Birmingham don't you know! ;) none of them had nose bands. (And only snaffles or doubles for that matter!!)
 
Cptrayes thank you for that suggestion about Pelham roundings, I was wondering what to use as a temporary fix for my broken one, and I have several spare flash straps! :-D
 
Just off out to buy WFP's kit. If he uses it, it must be ok.

Also, I am going to start hyper flexing my horses as it makes them look so pretty.

:D
 
Not a fan at all - I've found that some confirmed head shakers stop the moment you take off the bottom strap.

Generally poorly fitted, the top noseband is too flimsy and the lower strap pulls everything down.

If the horse needs his mouth held closed then a drop or a grackle is best.
 
There are some people with very strong opinions about flashes. I use one as said earlier its the only nose band i can safely ride in, i wouldn't say i was a bad rider or a great one just average but i am a year into re schooling my lad and he still needs it- i have 3 instructors all of which agree to take it off would put me in danger at present. There is a time for them just like for almost every other piece of equipment if used correctly for the right reason they are a good piece of kit.
How about sayin if you use a breastplate u need your saddle changing not just strapping it up so it doesn't move- a well fitting saddle should never move!? But i bet lots of you use one for that added safety or just because everyone else in your discipline does.
EKW brave of you to suggest u use draw reins that too seems to be a forum hated piece of kit but i think as i said earlier its the way they are used that matters.
 
Typical CP! Dragging everything through the gutter! I merely meant that I used them to connect together all of my spare whips, chains, leatherwork and bits so I know where they all are should such an occassion arise that they are indeed needed. It is mere coincidence that they live in a chest at the foot of my bed ;)
 
I haven't used flashes for years, just plain cavessons. Think they're totally unecessary and I agree it really annoys me that most bridles automatically come with flashes hence I think its almost default people use them and they assume they should.
 
Flashes are not unnecessary when they're holding bagpipes together. That's how I lost mine. I was using it as a strap when going through a phase of trying to creatively re-jig my Irish (uilleann) pipes so they would sit in a more comfortable way and I left it in a pub somewhere. Whoops.
 
Blummen heck, so much flash hate!! lol!

Not saying I like them, I don't do gadgets in general as I don't think you should need them if you ride properly and mine go in cavessons and always have.

However, at lesson last week (with an instructor who has helped my riding a lot and who I trust) instructor suggested that Gull might want to spend a bit of time in a flash at some point, as 'he was starting to open his mouth a bit'.

To put into context, he is starting to mature in his work quite a bit more now, and also in himself. He goes very softly in the main off the leg, and I'm not a heavy handed rider, but he's still in 'getting fit' phase at this point this year (bl**dy weather), so isn't finding the flatwork quite as easy as he was last year, so when he gets tired (doesn't take long, 30 min!), he starts to try and evade in one way or another, and I think this is why the instructor is noticing his mouth moving about a bit. He's generally working in a lesson for around 45 min and should cope with that.

Instructor said I might want to change his noseband and I suggested a drop (knowing that they seem to be more effective), but she said no, a flash should do. TBH, my thought was also that surely they don't do that much......

I don't own a drop, but do own a grackle, so perhaps next lesson in that, just to see what he does?

Should also note that after EGS, he has always been quite dry in the mouth, so I am quite loathe to stop him moving his mouth and jaw as have always wanted to encourage the saliva. I have a feeling that once he is fitter, he won't grumble so much, but while he is being pushed a little (both in terms of fitness and advancing his work) what do you think I should do?
 
EKW said:
Typical CP! Dragging everything through the gutter! I merely meant that I used them to connect together all of my spare whips, chains, leatherwork and bits so I know where they all are should such an occassion arise that they are indeed needed. It is mere coincidence that they live in a chest at the foot of my bed ;)
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Well we didn't add 50 Shades of Grey to the usage list, did we :D They're a perfect length for tying an ankle to the bedpost, I guess. I wouldn't know, myself :rolleyes:
 
TrasaM said:
Re rubber reins.Well leather reign with rubber grips. I agree. I tried really hard yesterday to keep the reign held properly in my hands but felt that they were too thick. I don't exactly have little hands either. Never really noticed it till yesterday then I've just read your blog and realised why.
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I have swapped all my reins for rubber with a webbing core instead of rubber with a leather core. Much thinner and more flexible and I find them much easier to hold onto with arthritic fingers.
 
I have used them on a couple of my horses, and they have been useful. A flash strap also comes in very useful if you are using a nose net on a windy day - the strap helps keep the net down instead of flapping all over the place!
 
pootleperkin said:
Blummen heck, so much flash hate!! lol!

Not saying I like them, I don't do gadgets in general as I don't think you should need them if you ride properly and mine go in cavessons and always have.

However, at lesson last week (with an instructor who has helped my riding a lot and who I trust) instructor suggested that Gull might want to spend a bit of time in a flash at some point, as 'he was starting to open his mouth a bit'.

To put into context, he is starting to mature in his work quite a bit more now, and also in himself. He goes very softly in the main off the leg, and I'm not a heavy handed rider, but he's still in 'getting fit' phase at this point this year (bl**dy weather), so isn't finding the flatwork quite as easy as he was last year, so when he gets tired (doesn't take long, 30 min!), he starts to try and evade in one way or another, and I think this is why the instructor is noticing his mouth moving about a bit. He's generally working in a lesson for around 45 min and should cope with that.

Instructor said I might want to change his noseband and I suggested a drop (knowing that they seem to be more effective), but she said no, a flash should do. TBH, my thought was also that surely they don't do that much......

I don't own a drop, but do own a grackle, so perhaps next lesson in that, just to see what he does?

Should also note that after EGS, he has always been quite dry in the mouth, so I am quite loathe to stop him moving his mouth and jaw as have always wanted to encourage the saliva. I have a feeling that once he is fitter, he won't grumble so much, but while he is being pushed a little (both in terms of fitness and advancing his work) what do you think I should do?
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I would tell the RI that your horse is currently getting tired after 30 minutes as you are not able to do the fittening work you would like, so you will only require 30 minutes instruction for a while, as you want your horse to benefit form the lesson. He will not benefit from it if he is tired. That is why he is trying to evade - he is no longer in the right frame of mind to learn.
 
^ This ^

I think there is a fine line between pushing your* horse just hard enough so his fitness and performance improve, and pushing him too hard, to the point that it becomes difficult, frustrating, and tiring, and he starts looking for evasions. At which point, you start correcting the evasions and getting frustrated, which makes the whole riding thing even more unpleasant for the horse, and around and around you go. You add flashes, draw reins, whatever as the horse gets more determined in his evasions. Which might put a band-aid on the problem in question, but don't address the fundamental sourness the horse is developing.

Maybe I am becoming a big softy in my old age, but on the other hand, I have found that my horse's dressage has improved by leaps and bounds when I stopped riding with the attitude of "I will make you do this, because I am the rider, dammit" and instead approach it from a place of softness, empathy, and cooperation. It's a paradigm shift the rider has to make. The horse is already there. I think Mark Rashid and Buck Branneman, for instance, are spot on when they make the argument that the horse is hardwired to cooperate and to move with his herdmates. Mark talks about watching a herd of horses galloping and how easily they synchronise with one another. So with this in mind, I assume that the horse's "default setting" is cooperation and sensitivity, but of course, this is dependent on its humans being able to communicate with it. When I see a horse expending a hell of a lot of energy into fighting his rider, I assume that something has gone wrong with the communication, whether it is with that person or a previous rider, and the horse needs to fight and be "naughty" in order to defend itself and express its confusion.

And that is why I think flashes do nothing, other than mask a deeper problem and serve as useful water bottle hanging straps.

*"your" and "you" being the universal you, not anyone in particular on this thread.
 
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