Flea bitten, varnishing and greying out, colour experts opinion?

ycbm said:
Sorry, this is probably going to give you nightmares 😒

From the genetics testing lab:

https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Coat_Color/Gray.asp

It also fits with my own experience. Almost every grey horse in its late teens/twenties I have known in the last forty years has had them and several died of them, not always nicely.

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Yup, I can feel the nightmares coming on already. I knew, obviously, that grey horses were at much increased risk, but it’s not something I’ve had direct experience of. I shall do my best to stave of the nightmares, he’s an absolute gem and if it happens, it happens. ** toddles off to examine said horse with a fine tooth comb**

Keeping fingers and toes crossed for Ludo’s results, ycbm.
 
The champagne is in the fridge, and I'm not joking, this was a really big deal.

He's not a grey! The spots are here to stay, in more ways than one.

I know most people will wonder what on earth the issue was, but I wasn't joking when I said I wouldn't keep him if he was a grey.


🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋 🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋 🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋🍾🎉🎶🚀🌋



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ester said:
thought not, good good ;):D
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Once the idea was put in my head, I saw that some of his spots are roan and I couldn't remember whether they had always been roan or they were greying out. Thank goodness the DNA tests are available these days or I might have sold him out of fear alone.

But he's a gg not a GG, gG, or even a Gg, so now I have some serious plans for my gg's future 🤩

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BBP said:
You seriously wouldn’t keep him if he was grey? Despite saying he’s the best horse you’ve sat on?
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Yes, I seriously will not face going into my seventies with a horse which has a four in five chance of melanomas. I've seen some very disturbing melanomas and some nasty deaths, and the emotional turmoil that goes with them.

And I wouldn't spend a decade or more after the spots have gone looking at a horse outside the window whose colour leaves me absolutely cold. For some reason white horses don't, and never have, floated my boat. I would never have gone to see him if I had known he would go white as much as he has. Losing the spots I bought him for would be one step too far.

There are plenty of other great moving horses out there these days, I'm sure I could find one I could have just much fun with. Muffin is just as much fun, in a very different way. After you've lost a few horses, you realise there always another one out there somewhere.

I don't expect grey lovers to understand, but that's how it is. Thankfully, he's not one 😊


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ycbm said:
Yes it's a real disappointment how white he's gone! I wouldn't have gone to see him in the first place if I'd seen how he would be coloured at four, because I really don't want a white horse, but I'd have missed the best horse I've ever ridden, so there are some small compensations 😂
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I actually prefer him lighter now than the sale photo, I think he looks more classy being lighter with a few spots.
 
Not being grey doesnt mean the spots will stay. He could well end up nearly white, thats what varnish does, and he clearly has varnish. The picture shows one with varnish

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From the article pointed to earlier in the thread:

The varnish pattern does not cause the whole horse to fade, though. The spots on a pattern do not roan out. That is actually the easiest way to determine that grey is present in appaloosas; if the actual spots are fading, then the horse probably has the grey gene.
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I am satisfied that Ester and this article are right and that because he does not carry the grey gene, he will not lose his spots. Please don't post again, I want to celebrate this evening not have further doubts raised about it.

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Here for good, yay! Just off to open the Moet my lovely OH bought because he's so pleased for us all.




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Was it just grey you tested for or the Appaloosa genes as well? Being nosy and wondering what the whole LP, PATN etc stuff came back as.

Good news he's staying but I think you'd have had a queue of horse boxes lining up if you'd sold!
 
SEL said:
Was it just grey you tested for or the Appaloosa genes as well? Being nosy and wondering what the whole LP, PATN etc stuff came back as.

Good news he's staying but I think you'd have had a queue of horse boxes lining up if you'd sold!
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I only tested for grey as I was only concerned about losing the spots. Dad's unregistered and could even be a Knabstrupper for all I know, but he hasn't got a Knab head, it's very Arab, especially as his jowls develop and he definitely is/was a blanket.

I love your last comment 😄
 
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ycbm said:
Yes I think I prefer it to the shit, errr, mud colour. 😆

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I am not a massive fan of grey or spots but always wanted a grey pony when I was young, I think I can just appreciate how much hard work goes into keeping them clean now, I have bays so mud and dirt is well hidden!
 
I do RM, I do! I'm uncertain how much of that is the Moet/pinot grigio, but will find out in the morning 😆🤣

To be fair, only half the bottle of Moet is in me. 😅😆😁😋

I'd like to thank everyone who understands where I am on this, and everyone else who didn't understand but has suspended judgmental comments and run with it. We are all different, and tolerance goes a long long way.

Cheers everyone!
 
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I completely understand. My grey - who I adore and wouldn't be without - has had a lot of lumps removed and it has been a very difficult and expensive process. So far none have been melanomas, so not related to her colour, but the high likelihood of more and different lumps is not fun at all.

I can see why people want to lessen the statistical chance of lumps by avoiding greys.
 
Probably grey out IMO. My 2 current horses are now WHITE - my luso x was born black, was dark grey when I got him. Other was skewbald and greyed out!

I dont know why people go on about sarcoids and melanoma's so much with greys - (touch wood) Ive had several greys and never had any issues. My saying is "you never see a naughty grey", not sure if its true but it is for me!
 
I'm pleased you've got what you wanted YCBM but I think you may have scared people unnecessarily about melanomas. Yes they're not pleasant and I admit I wouldn't buy another grey due to my experience but that's more because of the work it has meant for me and my boy's temperament making it difficult for me to manage his rather than the effect they've had on him. He's been riddled for years and other than the odd one getting ulcerated, which is dealt with by keeping it clean and applying some sudocreme, I don't think they've caused him any pain at all. His are mainly in his sheath and collect a lot of grease so I have to clean it regularly. He hates me touching him in that area so I have to sedate him to clean it all out. This is what I meant when I said the work it has meant for me. He is now 23 and yes, they may well get him one day, but at the moment his dodgy feet look like doing that job before the melanomas do (the poor sod has had a lot to put up with in his life, bless him!). Even if the melanomas do get him, he's had a great life and the melanomas haven't stopped him doing anything. My vet told me the other day that with his various issues he never expected him to get beyond 18 and he's amazed how well he's doing for a big, heavy horse.

My other grey is also 23 and is just developing his first melanoma now, under his tail. It's currently the size of a very small pea and if I didn't have so much experience of them I wouldn't even know. I've known 4 other greys well, who all made it well into their old age and although 3 of them had melanomas, they were all very minor and didn't contribute to their deaths at all.

Yes they're a worry and yes you hear horror stories but although 80% might get them, less than 10% get them so badly as to be adversely affected by them.
 
MagicMelon said:
Probably grey out IMO. My 2 current horses are now WHITE - my luso x was born black, was dark grey when I got him. Other was skewbald and greyed out!

I dont know why people go on about sarcoids and melanoma's so much with greys - (touch wood) Ive had several greys and never had any issues. My saying is "you never see a naughty grey", not sure if its true but it is for me!
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Did you have a DNA analysis done? Your horses were almost certainly carrying the grey gene which mine is not.

People go on about melanomas in greys because the grey gene increases the risk of melanomas to four horses in five.

If you have had greys into their late teens and not had melanoma, you've been lucky.

Sarcoids are not related to melanomas, they are caused by a virus carried by flies.
 
annagain said:
I'm pleased you've got what you wanted YCBM but I think you may have scared people unnecessarily about melanomas. Yes they're not pleasant and I admit I wouldn't buy another grey due to my experience but that's more because of the work it has meant for me and my boy's temperament making it difficult for me to manage his rather than the effect they've had on him. He's been riddled for years and other than the odd one getting ulcerated, which is dealt with by keeping it clean and applying some sudocreme, I don't think they've caused him any pain at all. His are mainly in his sheath and collect a lot of grease so I have to clean it regularly. He hates me touching him in that area so I have to sedate him to clean it all out. This is what I meant when I said the work it has meant for me. He is now 23 and yes, they may well get him one day, but at the moment his dodgy feet look like doing that job before the melanomas do (the poor sod has had a lot to put up with in his life, bless him!). Even if the melanomas do get him, he's had a great life and the melanomas haven't stopped him doing anything. My vet told me the other day that with his various issues he never expected him to get beyond 18 and he's amazed how well he's doing for a big, heavy horse.

My other grey is also 23 and is just developing his first melanoma now, under his tail. It's currently the size of a very small pea and if I didn't have so much experience of them I wouldn't even know. I've known 4 other greys well, who all made it well into their old age and although 3 of them had melanomas, they were all very minor and didn't contribute to their deaths at all.

Yes they're a worry and yes you hear horror stories but although 80% might get them, less than 10% get them so badly as to be adversely affected by them.
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Your two statements that I have bolded appear to me to be in conflict, and your post confirms exactly why I don't want a grey.




Hip hip hooray I don't have one. Feeling great today and about to go and do some work on our straightness before another lesson next week.


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Congratulations :D I have an extended blanked spot who has been 'fading' for the last 6.5 years - the bay bits that were there when I got her at 6 months are now at least roan with some whiter patches. The spots are as dark and defined as they've always been though, and I've always joked that they're braille spots as the hair is finer and longer than the white bits when she's in winter plumage..
 
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