Flea bitten, varnishing and greying out, colour experts opinion?

ycbm

ycbm

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Ludo was born and is papered as bay. At two he was blanket spotted bay roan.

At four he has varnish on his ears, face and joints (he's got rusty ears 😂), a white blanket spotted with big dark chestnut spots and the rest of him is pale and heavily flea bitten with dark chestnut. His tail is white with a black v at the top but he has no black anywhere else.

Will he stay flea bitten, do you think, or will he go white?

Best guesses?
 
His father was an appaloosa and his mother a chestnut standardbred, I think. I'll just go check her colour, she was definitely a standardbred.
 
He was registered with the Standardbred PB register as a skewbald. His passport is outside, but I'm pretty sure it says bay with a white patch in the description of his body colour. I can't find his mum's colour at the moment.
 
Thanks, yes half of him is leopard spot, the other half is flea bitten. He has very mottled skin and white sclera but white hooves (and for white stockings). The leopard will obviously stay, I'm hoping the flea biting will stay as it will make him a lot easier to keep looking clean! Plus I like it 😃
 
The chances are he will slowly varnish out with the only colour remaining being on bony parts like knees and cheekbones, because he very definitely does have varnish at play. You might get lucky and keep some of the spots, you probably wont though.

The flea bites you refer to are just another step in the process. He is 100% not grey unless his father was slowly greying out, as you need 1 grey parent to have a grey foal
 
Thanks LW, I read it when it was pointed to up thread and it didn't tell me whether he will lose the flea bites or not.
 
Leo Walker said:
The chances are he will slowly varnish out with the only colour remaining being on bony parts like knees and cheekbones, because he very definitely does have varnish at play. You might get lucky and keep some of the spots, you probably wont though.

The flea bites you refer to are just another step in the process. He is 100% not grey unless his father was slowly greying out, as you need 1 grey parent to have a grey foal
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Do you mean you think he will lose the big spots? I can't imagine that happening, they are a completely different, thinner hair from the rest of his coat, and as he varnishes out all over, they aren't losing any colour at all. His mane, by contrast, was black at two and is now nearly white.

I'd be very sad if he lost his leopard spots 😭
 
LP = varnish gene, it has nothing to do with leopard spots per se, without PATN genes being involved.

These posts are a bit out of date now as the appaloosa project has moved on a bit but scroll down to 'freckles' for a good example of what you are describing.

http://equinetapestry.com/category/appaloosa/
frecklescu.jpg
 
Yes Ester, that's pretty much what he looks like up close, except that he has a pure white blanket and a lot of big dark chestnut spots in it that are a completely different (you can feel them) hair from the rest of the blanket.

I'd love it if he kept the flea bites, and I'd be really miffed if he lost the big spots.
 
It would be nice to know what freckles looks like now, but interesting that they got more intense (though maybe due to the whitening around them).
As such I think you should take good progress pics of his colour.
I don't suspect he will loose the big spots which is what I think I have said before.
 
ester said:
It would be nice to know what freckles looks like now, but interesting that they got more intense (though maybe due to the whitening around them).
As such I think you should take good progress pics of his colour.
I don't suspect he will loose the big spots which is what I think I have said before.
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👍👍👍 to the big spots.

The freckles are the same colour that he was when I bought him, I think, and he is greying out around them I think. But they do seem a bit more chestnut than I remember.

This is him at two, a few months before I bought him.

horse109342-1.jpg


And this is him yesterday

 
The freckles will go, its just a stage in the varnishing, it does say on the link. Hes gone very white, very quickly so I cant make my mind up about the bigger spots.
 
Yes it's a real disappointment how white he's gone! I wouldn't have gone to see him in the first place if I'd seen how he would be coloured at four, because I really don't want a white horse, but I'd have missed the best horse I've ever ridden, so there are some small compensations 😂
 
I think they look better when the varnishing is mainly over and they are white, the bit in the middle always makes them look grubby!

He will have been born bay with a white patch on his bum and the spots probably came in later. That would be fairly common for spotties and would explain his passport.
 
I have decided to DNA test him for grey, because I want to know if he has a hugely increased chance of melanoma as he gets older, and because I want to preempt my disappointment if he loses his big spots. I've looked at him today and he has some spots that are much paler than the others, but I can't remember if they've always been that way or if they are fading.

He's a typical appy and hasn't got forty mane or tail hairs to spare, but he'll just have to manage without them for a while 😁

I'll let you know when I have the answer in a week or so. Keep those fingers crossed, will you?
 
I could write and ask the breeder what colour his mother is but the father is an unregistered appaloosa, and depending on his age could carry grey himself, so it seems easier just to test him.

It's gone in the post, though it won't be picked up until tomorrow.

I know this will sound very stupid to a lot of people, but I bought him for his spots, I don't like white horses, and I don't want to face a probable future of growing old myself dealing with a horse with melanomas, which he will have a very high chance (I've seen 80% suggested) of ending up with if he has the grey gene. My thoughts at the moment are that if he is a grey, he won't be staying.

There's a lot riding on this test!

..
 
Don't write him off because he will grey out.

My few spot appy who is mostly grey with one or two spots has no melanomas. He has lumps on his neck which we tested and are just fatty lumps. He likes to be special and is reactive to his own sweat 🙄🙄

My spotty on the other hand had two sarcoids removed four years ago with laser and Liverpool. A flat one on his chest and a huge golf ball like one up under his thigh.

If you do ever decide to sell him please let me know, I might have a decent paying job by then and can afford a third 🤔😂 he is just my cup of tea.
 
Where’s the 80% chance of melanoma data from, ycbm? (Genuine interested question from a grey owner....)

Edited - hmmm, a quick google and lots of articles cite that figure... 😕.

That’s a tough one ycbm. (Like you, my boy is the best I’ve ever had.)
 
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Remi'sMum said:
Where’s the 80% chance of melanoma data from, ycbm? (Genuine interested question from a grey owner....)
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Sorry, this is probably going to give you nightmares 😒

From the genetics testing lab:

https://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Coat_Color/Gray.asp

It also fits with my own experience. Almost every grey horse in its late teens/twenties I have known in the last forty years has had them and several died of them, not always nicely.

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Slightlyconfused said:
Don't write him off because he will grey out.

My few spot appy who is mostly grey with one or two spots has no melanomas. He has lumps on his neck which we tested and are just fatty lumps. He likes to be special and is reactive to his own sweat 🙄🙄

My spotty on the other hand had two sarcoids removed four years ago with laser and Liverpool. A flat one on his chest and a huge golf ball like one up under his thigh.

If you do ever decide to sell him please let me know, I might have a decent paying job by then and can afford a third 🤔😂 he is just my cup of tea.
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Sarcoids I can deal with, (and have, he had loads, all gone now) but the prospect of fighting melanoma in fifteen or twenty years time when I just want a horse to last out my final few riding years is too much for me to cope with.

The whole forum's going to know in a week 😂


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