Follow on from colours....What colour is Freddie then?

Devonshire dumpling

Devonshire dumpling

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Just briefly read something on here about a bay with a splodge, and someone mentioned a horse isn't a skewbald its a coloured, this has confused me greatly...

So what colour is Freddie, a coloured drum cob or a skewbald drum cob? Am I being really dumb???????:D
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Lol I skim read a thread, so probably talking a load of tosh, so is Freddie just a basic skewbald or is he a white and brown horse lol, does he have a technical name :-)
 
I know you call cobs, coloured, but is it incorrect to call him a skewbald cob? Also isn't there names for skewbalds who are more white than dark........ come on colour experts, lets see if we can make Freddie posh!!!!! lol
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
Just briefly read something on here about a bay with a splodge, and someone mentioned a horse isn't a skewbald its a coloured, this has confused me greatly...

So what colour is Freddie, a coloured drum cob or a skewbald drum cob? Am I being really dumb???????:D
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OK, the thing to remember about horse colours, is that the names were thought up before the genetics were understood.

Also, two horses can have the same genes when you do a DNA test, but their coats can look different. A good example of this is Sabino which can be expressed in a tiny way, or so fully that there is no original coat colour left. you can also get everything in between the minimal and maximum expression.

Sabino.
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sabino.jpg


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Traditionally coloured = piebald (black and white patches) or skewbald (any colour except black with white patches).

So all three horses above have the sabino gene, but only the middle one would count as a 'coloured' - in this case a chestnut and white skewbald.

Your boy is a coloured. He is a skewbald. I think that because he has black ear tips (correct me if I'm wrong there) that he a a bay tobiano.

Like sabino, tobiano is a 'coloured' gene and it can be expressed to a greater or lesser degree.

Tobiano.
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The coloured genes basically put white over the base colour, as if you've painted the horse with white paint. Of course in reality the white patches have pink skin, where as the base colour has black skin. That's how you can tell the difference between a white horse (see the maximum sabino - photo 3) and a grey that has greyed out to white. The grey will have black skin.

ETA. Freddie probably has both Tobiano and sabino. :)
 
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Wow you know your stuff!!!!! So Freddie is posh!! lol He does have black tipped ears I think? just been looking through pics, looks like he does have a little black tipsto his ears, he has black in his forelock too?? What does this mean?? lol ..... his dad is a SKEWBALD HOMOZYGOUS DRUM COB STALLION??
Sire:-
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His grandsire is
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who is tricoloured?
 
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Devonshire dumpling said:
who is tricoloured?
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Go and stand in the naughty corner! :p

Tri coloured is a term for dogs. Lord knows why it has weasled it's way into horse colour terms. :rolleyes:

I have to say that he is very handsome. :D

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If we take a closer look at him ^ we can see that if you took the white patches away (just imagine washing the white paint off ;) ) he would be bay. :)

The same applies to both the sire and Freddie - although Freddie had a lot of paint to come off!

So they are all bay tobianos (with sabino), which is commonly known as skewbald (because they are patchy - but not black and white).
 
Faracat said:
Go and stand in the naughty corner! :p

Tri coloured is a term for dogs. Lord knows why it has weasled it's way into horse colour terms. :rolleyes:

I have to say that he is very handsome. :D

freddiesgrandpa.jpg


If we take a closer look at him ^ we can see that if you took the white patches away (just imagine washing the white paint off ;) ) he would be bay. :)

The same applies to both the sire and Freddie - although Freddie had a lot of paint to come off!

So they are all bay tobianos (with sabino), which is commonly known as skewbald (because they are patchy - but not black and white).
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Wiki says:
Tri-coloured (archaic: oddbald) refers to a horse with three different coat colours in a pinto spotting pattern of large white and dark patches, usually bay (a reddish colour with a black mane and tail) and white. This colouring is also commonly called skewbald (referring to a horse with a spotted coat that is white and any colour other than black). In modern usage in British English, skewbald and piebald (black and white) horses are collectively referred to as coloured, while in North American English, the term pinto is used to describe the colour pattern.
Yadda yadda Tobiano & sabino's the link is here if you want more :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricoloured_(horse)

ODDBALD who came up with that????
 
Faracat said:
Go and stand in the naughty corner! :p

Tri coloured is a term for dogs. Lord knows why it has weasled it's way into horse colour terms. :rolleyes:

I have to say that he is very handsome. :D

freddiesgrandpa.jpg


If we take a closer look at him ^ we can see that if you took the white patches away (just imagine washing the white paint off ;) ) he would be bay. :)

The same applies to both the sire and Freddie - although Freddie had a lot of paint to come off!

So they are all bay tobianos (with sabino), which is commonly known as skewbald (because they are patchy - but not black and white).
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I googled His grandsire and it called him tri coloured, he guess this is where he gets his black forelock from?
 
joeanne said:
Piebald......a black and white horse
Skewbald.....any other colour and white.
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thats like Mrs Bouquet and Mrs bucket, Freddie is now a Bay Tobiano, not a skewbald lol...

Faracat, I finally get why he is classed as bay as the white is the patches, he just has a lot of them, but why is he sabino too?
 
Not really into coloureds & markings etc...but surely if the coloured part of a horse is bay it stands to reason its mane/tail will be black (unless its white obviously), doesnt it, as a solid bay has a black mane & tail.
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
thats like Mrs Bouquet and Mrs bucket, Freddie is now a Bay Tobiano, not a skewbald lol...

Faracat, I finally get why he is classed as bay as the white is the patches, he just has a lot of them, but why is he sabino too?
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Sabino is what give the white on his face and the jagged edges to his bay patches.

He is not a "drum cob" though. A cob is a small, or should that be short, horse and a drum horse is big as in the Drum carrying horses of cavalry bands which are typically 17hh.

Drum horse has become a scam the Yanks phrase for oversized cob.
 
navaho said:
Not really into coloureds & markings etc...but surely if the coloured part of a horse is bay it stands to reason its mane/tail will be black (unless its white obviously), doesnt it, as a solid bay has a black mane & tail.
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Freddie has a white tail with some black running through it and his mane is white with a dash of black in his forelock?
 
s4sugar said:
Sabino is what give the white on his face and the jagged edges to his bay patches.

He is not a "drum cob" though. A cob is a small, or should that be short, horse and a drum horse is big as in the Drum carrying horses of cavalry bands which are typically 17hh.

Drum horse has become a scam the Yanks phrase for oversized cob.
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His dad Seppe is called a drum cob stallion..... so I guess this is why it says drum cob on Freddies passport...he is currently 2, no idea how big he will be, his bum is 15.3 and his withers 15.1...... think his dad was 16hh and his grandsire was 15.2 xx I would call it a maxi cob
 
PP - yes the term tri coloured is used enough to have it's own Wiki entry. :( Still an inelegant term that has no genetic basis or the nice, traditional simplicity of piebald and skewbald. I don't like lemon and white, blue and white or my new pet hate chocolate palomino (generally seems to be used for either a silver dapple or a flaxen liver chestnut - neither of course have the cream gene) either. ;)

DD - the sabino comes in because horses can have more than one 'coloured gene'. In this case it's easiest to see on this horse.
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You can see the Tobiano because the white patches look like paint has been poured on him from above, but he also has white legs. His head still has base colour showing from the poll down. the sabino is giving the white patches jagged edges and the way that the lower lip is white also indicates sabino. You can see the base colour patch on the side of his mouth.

The black forelock is because he is bay. Remember that all bay horses are really black, only the agouti gene fades the body colour to brown (different shades of brown can happen - bright bay, dark bay etc...). So all bays have black legs, mane, tail and ear tips (unless covered by white markings), it's what makes them bay. :)
 
I would love to be talked through Buddy's colour but dont want to hijack DD's thread so any experts who fancy talking me through it please will drop me a PM?! Ta :D xxx
 
Faracat I admire your knowledge! I have never managed to get my head round the finer points of describing colours.. skewbald and piebald has to do for me. I will know who to ask in future!!
 
I had a knowledgeable friend who taught me loads and there are some great sites that explain things clearly (with photos :) ) but unfortunately I haven't got my head around all the rather complicated appaloosa colours yet. :(
 
thats like Mrs Bouquet and Mrs bucket, Freddie is now a Bay Tobiano, not a skewbald lol...
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Well at least your horse doesn't get called cremello, white, grey, cream, pale (?) and worst of all... Albino!

He's a perlino dammit ;)

Ps. I LOVE Keeping Up Appearances! :D
 
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