Follow on from Folks that should not have horses

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NeilM

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I have come across yet another case of an owner who has bought a totally unsuitable horse.

A few years ago a very nice lady used to rent from my OH. She was a very experienced, although not terribly strong rider. She bought DESTRUCTO WELSHIE, a Sec D mare we called Beasty, not because she was nasty (quite the reverse) but just because she was young, big, powerful and she liked to gallop, everywhere, all the time...

The lady was completely over horsed, but would not sell the horse and just wanted to turn it into a quiet hack. Why did she buy the beast? Because she had taken the trailer such a long way, she could not bring it back empty! Um Yes, you could!

Next: Very inexperienced novice falls in love with four year old 15 hh Appaloosa which she can't afford. She managed to agree terms to buy it, and now gets dragged around all over the place red faced and frantic looking, with reins that look like steel rods they are so tight and straight. Why did she buy it? Because he looks so lovely (which he does).

Next: Very slight and inexperienced lady buys four year old coloured Welsh Sec D mare, 'to grow up with'. She has had the horse under a year and I recently saw her out walking it in hand. She saw me riding H and nearly sh*t herself, as she was quite convinced that the horse was going to tank off dragging her behind(her daughter told me).

Last: Inexperienced older lady bought eight year old, very cobby/ traditional Welsh D gelding (he's a stunner). Previous owner has used him for jumping against the clock. New owner wants to show both ridden and in hand. She has an excellent young rider exercising and showing ridden, but has given strict instructions that when being exercised he is not to be cantered! Why? Because she is afraid she will not be able to stop him when she rides! This obviously makes him a real handful ridden in the showing ring and is the main reason he does badly at shows (hard to practice your show, when the owner does not want the horse cantered!).

I have several more examples of this sort of nonsense, but only one of a new rider who listened to her riding instructor and bought a schoolmaster that she is now thoroughly enjoying.

Why do people buy horses they are terrified of or have no clue how to handle?

It is like someone buying a Ferrari and then only driving to the shops and back in 1st gear because they don't like to go fast.

What is it, ego, arrogance, sheer bl**dy stupidity? It's the poor horses I feel sorry for, they had no choice in the numpty that decided to sell / buy them.
 
Can I add another perspective as some one who made a terrible mistake? After years of riding lessons and working in a riding school I went out and bought my dream horse, an arab. Now before every one groans I rode arabs, part bred arabs and welshies when I learned to ride and my instructor was confident I could handle one. My mistake was falling for a horse that I didn't know and believing the owner when she said he was a forward going but biddable ride. He wasn't, he was an evil little s**t who used to like to try and stamp on me when he threw me onto the ground. What no one else thought of either was that left on my own with total responsibility for a horse for the first time, my confidence deserted me. Without an ever present instructor I panicked when presented with a problem. As you can imagine it was a downward spiral. Everyone on the yard tried to help but in the end I sold him to a more experienced home (mother was a trainer, daughter was a semi professional endurance rider who rides all over the world). They put me in touch with the lady selling my old girl and we have been together ever since. But when I first rode her my confidence was so eroded I used to cling to her mane and cry with fear. I made myself get on because I knew I would be miserable if I gave up horses.

Us newbies don't always make mistakes becuase we are stupid or arrogant, although I have seen it happen. Most people fall in love and let their heart rule their head and then start accomodating ridiculous behaviour in both themselves and their horses to make it all "smooth to the eye" and to the heart. Despite every thing that Arab put me through, I still cried for weeks when I sold him. Its really hard when your dreams don't match up to reality and it can be very hard to admit this. Newbies need help when things go wrong - I was lucky in that the YO was a good friend who very firmly told me (after being thrown off in traffic) that enough was enough and that no one was having fun. Compare that to one livery who told me flat out that I shouldn't ride or be allowed anywhere near horses!
 
I am no expert and have been through the mill with my two! However, it really gets my goat when people who are novicey don't take advice.

I understand what's it's like......i'm a total mug (hence the fact I have one-eyed fizzy nut bomb and 28yo creaky cantankerous bastard!) but if you don't know......ASK! I have seen alot of people who have been burnt before, but still insist on going to view horses with no experienced help and then buying without a vetting. Novices with more money than sense who get scared shitless by one horse......so leave the poor thing to be a field ornament and buy another unsuitable horse.

There is a beautiful Welsh Stallion I have seen for sale..............but the fact that I have no facilities for a stallion, no experience with them and am not a good enough rider to ride him kinda puts me off!
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Can I add another perspective as some one who made a terrible mistake? After years of riding lessons and working in a riding school I went out and bought my dream horse, an arab. Now before every one groans I rode arabs, part bred arabs and welshies when I learned to ride and my instructor was confident I could handle one. My mistake was falling for a horse that I didn't know and believing the owner when she said he was a forward going but biddable ride. He wasn't, he was an evil little s**t who used to like to try and stamp on me when he threw me onto the ground. What no one else thought of either was that left on my own with total responsibility for a horse for the first time, my confidence deserted me. Without an ever present instructor I panicked when presented with a problem. As you can imagine it was a downward spiral. Everyone on the yard tried to help but in the end I sold him to a more experienced home (mother was a trainer, daughter was a semi professional endurance rider who rides all over the world). They put me in touch with the lady selling my old girl and we have been together ever since. But when I first rode her my confidence was so eroded I used to cling to her mane and cry with fear. I made myself get on because I knew I would be miserable if I gave up horses.

Us newbies don't always make mistakes becuase we are stupid or arrogant, although I have seen it happen. Most people fall in love and let their heart rule their head and then start accomodating ridiculous behaviour in both themselves and their horses to make it all "smooth to the eye" and to the heart. Despite every thing that Arab put me through, I still cried for weeks when I sold him. Its really hard when your dreams don't match up to reality and it can be very hard to admit this. Newbies need help when things go wrong - I was lucky in that the YO was a good friend who very firmly told me (after being thrown off in traffic) that enough was enough and that no one was having fun. Compare that to one livery who told me flat out that I shouldn't ride or be allowed anywhere near horses!

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Hmmm, well that is certainly a view from the other side of the coin, and one I have to confess I had not thoroughly considered.

At least in the end you listened to reason and sold your unsuitable horse on and at least you had plenty of experience behind you (even if your confidence deserted you).

Perhaps I am much more pragmatic in my views. I have spent a lot of money in the past on things (not living and breathing I accept) that turned out to be unsuitable. I accepted I made a mistake, cut my losses, sold up and started again.

I understand that everyone has to start somewhere, but some people seem to buy horses for emotional reasons, or worse, because they are relatively cheap (youngsters), when a little pragmatism is what is actually needed.
 
I guess I was a bit over-horsed with the mare (who I am convinced used to use her time to think up new and innovative ways to kill me). But I'm a stubborn old crone and every time she threw a fit / dragged me about / reared vertical / tanked off / sent me flying over her head, I vowed 'right, you got one over me this time, never again' and, to be fair to me, she very seldom got away with it a second time. I had a lesson on her every week and asked and asked and asked people for help and advice until they were sick of me.
Parting with her after 3 fractious years together was the saddest but also the happiest day of my life. She had become a super little horse, looked grand, was fit and well, and I was a better horsewoman for having owned her.
Sadly I hear that she's testing her new owner, a lovely, experienced rider, in exactly the same way she tested me and her previous owner before me. I guess some horses just don't change their ways!
My new lad is a gentleman in every sense, but I don't think I would have appreciated him half as much if I hadn't owned Satana (my dad-in-law's nickname for her) first!
So, having a horse that is a handful doesn't necessarily need to mean the end of the world - as long as you are prepared to learn and aren't too proud to ask for help.
 
I benefited from that type of scenario
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My current Appy (15.3) was bought from a 14 year old girl, who I doubt weighed more than 6 1/2 stones, who had one leg weaker than the other. The mare was acurately described as forward going but not out of control and not a novice ride. She was ewe necked and ridden in a singel jointed dutch gag (the first thing to go!).
Three years on she is a beautiful girl, absolutely traffic proof, well mannered on her own or in company, ridden in either a myler comfort snaffle or a myler pelham. In no way was she suitable for the girl I bought her from, but she realised this quickly as she only had the mare for 6 months, she went on to buy a conemara x and I believe is having fun. Two familes and two horses happy
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We've got one on our yard, nightmare. She has been out of riding for a few years, I get the impression has owned well schooled ponies in the past.

So of course the ideal horse to go for is a 17.2hh project horse who has been out of work and has no manners on the ground. And she has frightened of him as she has broken her arm in the past.

Having given her lots of help and advice about handling the horse. I've given up. I work with him, get him behaving nicely on the ground, explain how to handle the horse, 2 weeks later and the horse is back to square one.

Doesn't have a clue how to lunge, was to frightened to lunge him, ever with me lunging first and standing in the middle with her. Hoping someone will take it off her hands.

It's such a shame because it wouldn't take that much work to have him as a nice ride. Poor horse.
 
Even pretty experienced people have been known to make mistakes. Having ridden for 20+ years, most of it on what I thought was a nutter, and gone with friends to view horses from quite an early age (I remember being about 16 and having to tell a younger friend's non horsey parents that under no circumstances should they buy a particular horse for her as it would kill her. It nearly bucked us both off when we tried it but she was so desperate for a horse she wanted it - she didn't speak to me for a month!)

I thought I'd be able to make the right decision when I bought my boy. But the truth is I bought one that was too big for me, is ridiculously strong and very sensitive and his biggest hang up - jumping -is also mine. 4 years on we've worked through most of the problems and I still have him but I nearly sold him so many times - the latest only being a few weeks ago. I have accepted that he is now 90% right for me (his saving grace is that he's the world's best hacking horse and is amazing in traffic. He only gets silly and strong at competitions) and I can compromise on the other 10%. But if I'd known then what I know now I would never have bought him.

So why did I do it? A number of factors,
I was fed up of looking and he was the closest I'd got to the right horse,
I thought I was a better rider than I was, my old "nutter" I now realise was just a bit excitable and actually a very good pony. I didn't ride him I was a passenger.
He looked like my friend's horse who is a star and sub-conciously I thought he'd be the same
He's a really sweet loving horse who wanted cuddles from the first day I met him and I let my heart rule my head. He still does this and I love him all the more for it!
And my biggest mistake - my friend was on holiday so I didn't take anyone with me. I had nobody to do what I'd done for other people. I really think taking an objective honest friend who isn't afraid to speak his/her mind and risk you not speaking to him/her for a month is the best thing you can ever do when looking for a horse.
 
Flicker, part of my point is that none of the horses I've listed are mad, bad or difficult in fact quite the reverse in every case. Beasty was delightful, just strong, the other Welsh mare just lacks manners, the Appa is a lovely kind boy, but like any child without proper guidance, just does what he pleases and the cob is an absolute sweety, just F...A....S....T.

My lad H was sold to us by a lady who just could not manage him, because he can be thick headed and he IS strong. My OH identified him as a man's pony straight away and he is. BUT (and it's a big but) the last owner realised very quickly that she had over horsed herself (as everyone had told her) and so found him a much more suitable home.

It is the people who don't know, but won't take advice that I wonder about. Knowing you have a problem horse but developing the skills and relationship to overcome those problems is one thing. Buying a horse and being terrified of it is another thing entirely and is just silly. It is no good for either the owner or the horse and I just don't understand why people do it.
 
"but if you don't know......ASK!"

Its funny, but most newbies don't have to ask. In my experience you will have people lining up to give you unwanted advice and berate you. I was told constantly that it was my fault, so I tried harder and harder on an animal that was seriously throwing me around the place, hoping it would all be ok. I actually cried with relief when the YO said he just wasn't right for me and nothing I could do would make it right. If you are not from a horsey background it can be really intimidating walking onto a livery yard with your first animal. You want to fit in, you want to be a good owner, you want to have fun and do all the things you dreamed of. You also tend to be a bit in awe of people who are 'horsey' and have years of experience. But you know what, some of them are pillocks as well! Some people can also be very cruel. One livery on the yard brought a friend down to the arena when I was excercising Velvet and said, "Velvet is such a lovely horse, you should see her when she is being ridden properly." Can you imagine how that made me feel, especially when my confidence was beginning to come back? It took me years before I felt I could stand up to the horsey types when they come around with unwanted advice. I may not be an expert on horses but I'm an expert on mine.

To the OP, you are absolutley right when you say people make an emotional decision about buying their first horse. When you are not from a horsey background, you are buying into a dream and the longer you wait, the bigger and grander that dream gets. That's why you see people who should know better importing three year old andalucians! Often we really don't know what we want. It took about two years of horse ownership before I actually figured out I don't have the time or the money to compete. I would have given you a different answer at the beginning though!
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arrrrgghhhhh, makes me mad.

Rather large girl falls in love with very skinney ex racer. Have advised girl not to ride him yet ( only four) and do ground work, and feed him up.

Another person said to just get on him and dont bother to feed him anything extra than his curretn grazing.

Poor horse has its eye rolling in its sockets, enough said that she has ignored me and others and gone with the advice that gets her on him soonest!!!!!!
 
I should add I've never been frightened of my horse, (well not for more than about 2 minutes when he's playing up!) and he's lovely to handle! He's just very frustrating as he gets himself so stressed!
 
indiat, if i rode a horse that put me on the floor and then tried to stamp on me, as you say your arab did, i think i'd have a word with the hunt. that is EVIL behaviour, i hope you escaped unscathed. i don't care how bright or frustrated a horse might be, that is unbelievable behaviour.
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NeilM, i think you are giving the vendors too much credit in a lot of cases. a lot of people selling horses would make a 2nd hand car salesman look like Mother Teresa... it really isn't always a numpty's fault that s/he ends up with a totally unsuitable ungenerous git of a horse!
 
I have to say I really sympathise with Indiat! When you are new and ignorant people are looking to take advantage of you.

When I was looking for my first horse I was not too sure how to go about it (15 years ago before the days of the internet) so I asked for advice at my ridding school (I had been riding for a good 10 years, two of them at that place). They sold me a 12yr old TB mare, who had raced, had been off work for a year, would rear, buck and bolt, went everywhere with her head in the air and woudn't jump. Was I an idiot for buying her? Yes. Could I have known better? Not easily! I had had two lessons on her at the riding school, the instructor was very positive and I trusted them - more the fool me.

Given how little time the average buyer gets to spend with a horse (usually one viewing) it's really, really easy to get caught out and then it's a vicious circle of hoping that things will improve.
 
Hi Kerilli, I actually bought the horse from the UK. I went through some specialist arab sites as I have always loved them and he was the right age, height, price and experience. He did fine in the school and when i hacked him out and I believed the owner whens he said he was forward going but gentle. Iwas back in Ireland when it all started going wrong so had no come back. The girl I sold him to uses him for endurance and in her opinion he has a streak of spite through him a mile wide! She stopped bringing her dogs out when hacking as he constantly tried to stamp on them! She has retrained him, but I don't think he will ever be easy.
 
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NeilM, i think you are giving the vendors too much credit in a lot of cases. a lot of people selling horses would make a 2nd hand car salesman look like Mother Teresa... it really isn't always a numpty's fault that s/he ends up with a totally unsuitable ungenerous git of a horse!

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Absolutely bl**dy right. Don't even get me started on that one
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I have chosen my examples quite carefully though, and in these cases the horses are all basically nice, kind, sound animals and in the hands of other owners they would be no trouble at all.

Oh and if the Appy ever came up for sale, my OH would KILL to be the next owner
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That's awful BooBoos because after my experience that is exactly what I would recommend - go through your riding school and your instructor. Do Lord, are all us newbies doomed?!
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To be honest, I think I would always go for Irish cobs now, they are very placid and good all rounders. I'm never going to be a really comptitive rider - joining in with the fun at the yard is the most I aspire to! Altough I did see a nice little arab up for sale......
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My last horse was sold to me as suitable for a nervous novice.He was sharp and spooky and in fact had frightened his previous owner to death.He wasn't nasty at all and I loved him to bits but he erroded all my confidence.My then instructor told me he was fine and just toignore everything! I would love to have been able to.Changed instructors to a much more experienced one.Within a month we had sat down, had a long heart to heart and decided he was not for me.Even then old instructor who was my then YO kept on about how lovely he was etc and how she didn't DO selling.It was a horrible situation.I did sell him in the end to a lovely home where I am sure he is much happier and I have a lovely new Welsh Cob who is slowly but surely restoring my confidence and giving me a lot of pleasure.Yes we all make mistakes but it isn't always the newbies fault.
 
Don't get me wrong! I think it is a total minefield out there for novice buyers and I absolutely HATE it when people interfere with little comments etc.....the horse world is bitchy as hell!

I also was quite novice when i got Monty. However, I was really talking from personal experience where a girl I know bought a half-dead horse that was in her 30s as a 17yo (no vetting!).........then bought a horse from Gypsies at the side of the road, put him in the field, he had been cut that day and I ended up with a 700quid vet bill when he attacked Monty...........then paid alot of money for a horse that is 10 years older than they said, has a bogus passport, has all sorts of health issues and is crazy to ride...........and has just bought another against everyone's advice.

I don't give my opinion unless it is asked for but what get's my goat is when people realise they are inexperienced.........and then ignore all the advice given to them.

I certainly wouldn't get a horse without taking an experienced friend and getting it vetted and I have a lot more experience than this girl. I know that you can still end up with a duffer but it makes sense to do everything possible to avoid it!!!
 
I'm on the other side of the fence again. We did everything 'right' when we bought our daughters pony. We took an 'experienced' friend with us, had the pony 5* vetted and rang for references from the local trainer at Pony Club, where pony had just been on camp.
Even so, we've encountered numerous problems along the way but have managed to always work through them and bring the pony on. Manys the time that I, as a mum, have thought 'enoughs enough', but my daughters determination and love has stopped me making that final decision.
We're not a novice family, and have worked with animals all our lives, but sometimes no matter how hard you try it's not always the perfect dream you imagined.
 
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That's awful BooBoos because after my experience that is exactly what I would recommend - go through your riding school and your instructor.

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In retrospect they were quire horrible people! Their former YM had convinced the YO to go into dealing to 'make money'. They had gone off to the sales and bought three mares, one of them was mine. Within a few months she had injured herself, spent a year off work and then been off-loaded to me. Of the other two, one went back to the sales and the other was PTS...

Luckily I have had much, much nicer instructors since then who have genuinely helped with making more suitable purchases!
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That's a relief! It can be hard to find the right instructor and one that isn't afraid to be honest. The senior instructor at our yard is great. I had a long break from riding Velvet after the birth of our last child and the move to England and she has really helped us get to know each other again. Before we had our lessons we were having some really silly arguments!
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I've been riding for 25 years. I've owned seven horses, I've my stage 2 riding, I've worked part time for a dealer riding all sorts and I don't scare easily. I still managed to buy a horse I can't ride that can scare the crap out of me. Why? Because it didn't do what it does when I tried it, it waited 'til I took it home.

You can't tell for sure in the limited time you have to try a horse before you buy, what that horse is like on a bad day, what its like in certain situations, or what it does when its p!ssed off.
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There is a hell of a luck involved in buying the right horse.
 
Despite knowing what I should do, and planning to go through my instructors to find a horse, I went about things almost exactly the wrong way:

1. Agreed to take the pony on loan while it was still leading everyone a merry chase around the field, reluctant to be caught.
2. Didn't have the owner ride it first (she's a bit big for him). I was the first person to get on him in well over a year.
3. Got on, rode it only at a walk, and promptly got dumped into a mud puddle when he spooked at something.
4. Decided to buy it a few months later, without a vetting (to be fair, had been riding it for a while by then).

My excuse? He was sweet, well-mannered (once you finally caught him), I was told he was nice to ride, and...he had a soft nose and kind eyes.
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Thing is, I knew it was silly, but did it anyway. And of course, if it hadn't worked out, I could have sent him back.
 
Coloured Section D huh?

There are many reasons why people buy unsuitable horses and no matter how stupid we think they are, people will continue to do so.
 
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There are many reasons why people buy unsuitable horses and no matter how stupid we think they are, people will continue to do so.

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How true
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I know a few people like that, and I have come to the conclusion that they just can't be honest with themselves about their ability. I do think it's terribly sad for them that they don't have a horse they can relax with and enjoy. Keeps the local riding instructors in business though
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As long as the horse is well kept then I don't think there is anything you can do.
 
I read this and Though "oh dear that is me" I got my first horse in 2003. I had ridden for years and he was free to a good home. I went look and he came home. OH MY GOD did I have a steep learning curve, I spent a lot of time falling off and being bolted with. looking back I was a total novice. However, he was mine for better or for worse so I got some help and things got a LOT better. He loved me and I loved him and he taught me a lot, but I was a total novice on a cranky ex-racer and he took me to hell and back but bazaarly he was my perfect horse. After 4 years of my boy I stupidly thought I was capable and bought a 3year old ex-racer mare. Errr, well, errr, yes....... My mare sometimes scares me stupid, but as long as I don't loose it this stupid novice will achieve things with my girl, and if I am totally honest she is my perfect horse now..... just this idiot novice owner of hers gets the confidence wobbles occasionally
 
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Am I really the only one who finds this post really judgmental?

If you'd seen me either riding or handling my horse 7 years ago when I got him, you would have put one helluva post up on here about me and no doubt everyone would have agreed I was a complete idiot and felt extremely self-satisified! And yes, I was overhorsed because my decision to buy was emotional - I bloody loved that horse and that horse it had to be, despite his issues which I knew all about.

However, what was not emotional, was the long hard thinks I had, and my facing up to the fact that if I couldn't fix him myself, I would get professional help. Even if it took a LOT - I made sure I had the funds. And I also faced up to the fact, that if I truly believed I'd done everything I could by him, and if a professional I trusted told me he was beyond help, then I would have had him shot.

Well, I didn't have to. And now (and for many years) I have a wonderful, trusting, compliant and talented horse that many people envy because he is so easy and will turn his hoof to anything. So I'm sorry but I was on the receiving end of lots of pontification the like of which I read in this post, about how useless he and I both were, and those people have been forced to eat their words as we've outperformed the lot of them as the years have gone on. I can't believe you all know beyond any doubt exactly what is going on with these partnerships. Maybe some of these "fools" will surprise you one day.
 
To be fair Skewby, there are some awful people out there. There was a woman on a yard nearby us in Ireland who used to buy good looking, frisky horses and I don't know what she did to them, but they would end up basket cases. She would pass them on, claiming she was leaving the country and then turn right round and buy another horse of the same type and do the same thing all over again. Problem was, she advertised these animals as school masters. From what I gathered from the lvieries on her yard, she genuinly didn't think it had anything to do with her. She was a great rider and horse after horse had simply gone bad on her. The women was a menace and just wouldn't be told and a lot of animals passed through her hands before she was told to vacate the yard - YO had enough of irate customers coming looking for her and was worried she would be seen as condoning her behaviour. That's a world away from the likes of you or me.
 
Skewby, that's brilliant that you turned it around and have forged a great partnership with your horse. I feel more saddened than anything when I see people who are overhorsed, and personally I only speak of the experiences I have been involved with, wouldn't want to comment on anyone I don't know.

I'm not sure that all people have those 'long hard thinks'
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but carry on trying to get on with an unsuitable horse. Over time, some horses either become naughty and frighten their owner, or if the horse is sensitive and the rider isn't, they can be ruined. If either of these happen, no one is happy.
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On the other hand, it can be the making of some people - that's if they are honest/open minded enough to recognise they might need some input. That's how it seems to me, anyway.
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