Follow on thread...would you PTS a horse with mild health issues

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Following on from the "Would you buy a horse which had the following issues?" a lot of people said they wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

So if these horses are unsellable would you have it destroyed... for example

1) You own a 6 year old warmblood type. Nice riding club horse. Has a sarcoid by its sheath. Due to a change in circumstances you have to sell, lets say move abroad.

Or
2) You bought a project pony in the winter. It was a great project and you have done loads with it however as spring and summer it developed sweet itch. People have told you its unsellable. It was only intended as a short term project...

Or

3) You have a 13 year old ex racehorse. You have reschooled it a bit, you mostly hack but have done the odd unaffilated thing. He was diagnosed with kissing spines when you first got him but you have treated (operated) and rehabbed him. You have to sell to go to university....

These are just random examples.... I am not thinking of specific people or horses.

Question is... are these horses unsellable... what would you do with them? PTS? Try and hide the problem and sell anyways, auction? Sell cheap to a dealer?
I am sure there a millions of more examples...

I know some people won't like the tone of this thread as basically its highlighting tue fact that horses are cheap and disposable to a lot of people. What happens to the less than perefct horses??
 

Cortez

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In any of your scenarios I would advertise the horse for sale with the issue fully disclosed and price adjusted to reflect that. If the TB horse with kissing spine was unrideable I would retire or PTS as circumstances dictate.
 

DabDab

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A horse with a sarcoid is saleable I think, but I get your gist.

Other than that, it would be a serious turn up of events if I was ever in the situation where I HAD to sell a horse. I try to make sure as far as possible that they are relatively sellable just in case, but in all honesty I would live in a cardboard box myself to keep an unsaleable horse if it came to it.

As an absolute last resort, yes I would PTS rather than pass on if they had serious medical issues
 

paddi22

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the first two sound completely sellable, with full disclosure and a matching price. I'd happily take both on at the right price.

the exracer I would loan out or pts. There is no guarantee the next owner would follow the correct Physio work or treatments, and if they didn't then it wouldn't be long till behavioural issues showed. For the horses sake I'd either loan so I could guarantee his future, or pts.
 
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I don't think George will ever be saleable. One sarcoid, PSD op 2 years ago, poor doer, But good feet, tail and pretty face.

If I had to sell it's likely because of finance. He needs routine so assisted DIY works best, wouldn't really cope just out in the field. TBH he would but wouldn't be ride-able!

There's no harm in advertising these horses for the right price and the right home. Or full loan. If it didn't work out he would most definitely have a retirement period out in the field before PTS or be offered back to the family that bred him.
 

meleeka

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I can?t imagine having to sell, it would have to be something pretty dramatic for me to. I have my own land so they could be kept cheaply and easily if needed.

If for instance I died, I?d be happier knowing they wouldn?t be passed on so pts would be my wish, unless If was someone my OH trusted implicitly. I do have someone who would find them a place at a sanctuary if needed, but my OH would still pay their keep.

I realise I am fortunate and it would be different if they were on livery and I wanted to compete.
 

Goldenstar

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Following on from the "Would you buy a horse which had the following issues?" a lot of people said they wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

So if these horses are unsellable would you have it destroyed... for example

1) You own a 6 year old warmblood type. Nice riding club horse. Has a sarcoid by its sheath. Due to a change in circumstances you have to sell, lets say move abroad.

Or
2) You bought a project pony in the winter. It was a great project and you have done loads with it however as spring and summer it developed sweet itch. People have told you its unsellable. It was only intended as a short term project...

Or

3) You have a 13 year old ex racehorse. You have reschooled it a bit, you mostly hack but have done the odd unaffilated thing. He was diagnosed with kissing spines when you first got him but you have treated (operated) and rehabbed him. You have to sell to go to university....

These are just random examples.... I am not thinking of specific people or horses.

Question is... are these horses unsellable... what would you do with them? PTS? Try and hide the problem and sell anyways, auction? Sell cheap to a dealer?
I am sure there a millions of more examples...

I know some people won't like the tone of this thread as basically its highlighting tue fact that horses are cheap and disposable to a lot of people. What happens to the less than perefct horses??
1. It would ridiculous to but this example down , I would have the sarcoid removed and find the horse a home .
2. Is harder I would attempt to sell it or give it away if would all depend on it’s ridden performance people will forgive a good pony many things and many people manage sweet itch very well .
3. Would probably end being PTS .
 

SEL

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Bit close to home right now. Shiloh isn't sellable and wouldn't last the summer on grass turnout. Unless anything outside our control happens (last year we both got sick) then this is the summer when I really need to see whether she can hold up to work.

I can feel myself getting teary just thinking about it, she's not even 8 yet FFS.
 

zaminda

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Sarcoids don't bother me that much would probably remove it and advertise.
If the sweet itch is manageable and the pony is easy and good with kids you would still have people biting your arm off for it! Lots of decent pc ponies have cushings and are prone to lami or have other problems but if they do the job no one cares.
The ks horse would be more difficult. It would depend how long post surgery it was and if long enough with no issues then I would sell with disclosure if not very long then probably loan. However if it was sharp you would struggle if fairly quiet you would find someone in my experience!
 

Ambers Echo

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I don't consider sarcoids or sweetitch to render a horse unsellable. I have knowingly bought both! And re-sold the SI pony with no trouble at all. I walked away from a cribber but mainly because he was still expensive and cribbing happens to drive me nuts. I am sure someone else bought him.

These things affect sale price that's all.

I've always found the threads saying 'walk away' to be a bit black and white tbh. Some people would not be willing to knowingly take on potential trouble if you don't have to. But there are plenty who do buy horses with 'issues' at the right price.
 
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Bit close to home right now. Shiloh isn't sellable and wouldn't last the summer on grass turnout. Unless anything outside our control happens (last year we both got sick) then this is the summer when I really need to see whether she can hold up to work.

I can feel myself getting teary just thinking about it, she's not even 8 yet FFS.
I am sorry.
the horse in examples are purely fiction.

The point I suppose is that all the horses in the examples I have given are all rideable, and would lead a useful life but require some treatment, special mamangement etc.

I havent put in my own example... 15 year old horse. Had ks op... evented afterwards. Tried to find loan home, didnt work out. Wasnt in the finicial position or had time due to work. He was diagnosed with athristis in his stifles. I PTS. Then followed abusive messages and threats etc from other liveries.
I dont know whether I did the right thing. I think about him everyday. Holding a horse for the vet in its final moments ( I had known this horse since it was a foal), the horse looking at you...I didnt post about on here as to be honest it was too depressing. I became extremely depressed afterwards.
I am now in a situation that I own over 20 acres a land, with option to rent more that I doubt today I would make the same descion.
I do however do a bit of buying and selling and run a business. Every horse is the eyes of the business in considered an 'asset' or essentialky its 'stock'.

I would like it for horses ro have such a value that they werent considered worthless when they still have so much to give, however I know (probably more than most!) The cost of keeping horses and their value.
Now if I won euromillions...
 
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I think one thing you're not considering here is that in the original post it said you were looking at less-than-perfect horses due to tight financials. Any health problems are then a real liability due to potential costs.
It's a different story if someone with enough cash in the bank is looking for a bargain and is willing to take the risk that said bargain will end up costing a bit more after all due to vets fees. In that case, one might take a punt on a horse with sarcoids or sweet itch (after full disclosure), or other treatable conditions.
Personally, even with plenty of money, I would not buy a horse that has a history of kissing spines, or is not fully sound. Those are not necessarily things you can "fix" just by spending a bit more on the vet.

In short, the less than perfect horses need someone with more cash, not less, and someone who is invested in the particular individual for some reason, even if it is not rational. It's more likely the previous owner will have an emotional tie to the horse, not a new buyer.
 
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Poor you Dominobrown. I would rather PTS any of my animals than risk them ending up in a situation where I couldnt ensure their future. My worst nightmare is any of my animals being afraid and suffering - if I had to end their life rather than risk that I would. I understand my views are extreme and are not shared by the majority but if an animals end can be delivered humanely without fear and suffering, I would opt for that rather than an uncertain future.
 
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In short, the less than perfect horses need someone with more cash, not less, and someone who is invested in the particular individual for some reason, even if it is not rational. It's more likely the previous owner will have an emotional tie to the horse, not a new buyer.
Yes, the orginal orginal post. I suppose it depends on the finacial contraints. For instance you want a dressage schoolmaster, get one with a few health issues and a 'perfect' GP horse costs a hell of lot, or 3* event horse etc etc.
If you are struggling to keep a horse at the best of times then however it makes it a huge risk, as if worst comes to worst you cannot treat it.
 

Flicker

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Dominobrown I am very sorry to hear of your experience. A very similar thing happened to friends who had their two oldies PTS together. The previous owner of one of them let rip on social media and things got so bad that the police had to get involved. They were very saddened that they had had to make the decision to PTS but comfortable that they were making the right decision. To have had to deal with all that has really cast a shadow over how she remembers them.

You did the right thing, don’t let anyone tell you different x
 

LaurenBay

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1. Would sell
2. Would sell
3. Would PTS

Sorry that some of you have had tough times when putting to sleep your Horses. No one has a right to make you feel bad for making that decision.

My Horse will never be sold, she can no longer be ridden as has advanced hock arthritis. She is only 13. Luckily she has taken to living out like a Duck to water and is sound enough for this at the moment. I won't risk passing her on.
 

Leo Walker

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I think one thing you're not considering here is that in the original post it said you were looking at less-than-perfect horses due to tight financials. Any health problems are then a real liability due to potential costs.
It's a different story if someone with enough cash in the bank is looking for a bargain and is willing to take the risk that said bargain will end up costing a bit more after all due to vets fees. In that case, one might take a punt on a horse with sarcoids or sweet itch (after full disclosure), or other treatable conditions.
Personally, even with plenty of money, I would not buy a horse that has a history of kissing spines, or is not fully sound. Those are not necessarily things you can "fix" just by spending a bit more on the vet.
This. as someone who bought a not quite lame but definitely not sound horse for pennies, I spent more than his purchase price in the first month alone having an MOT done, and thats before I really started getting to the bottom of the actual issue. I dont ride but when I did I liked young horses and projects. This one caught my eye and I couldnt leave it alone. I also knew my other horse was almost certainly going to be PTS and I needed a distraction or I would have lost the plot I think.

I was pretty sure he was an easy fix so I took a punt. He would have been PTS had he not come right enough to be comfortable. He wasnt totally straight forward to fix, but we got there in the end. He has repaid me a thousand times over and is genuinely the best and probably most valuable horse I have ever owned now. I thank my lucky stars every single day that I found him.

Equally he will never, ever leave my ownership. If I couldnt he would be PTS. It would break my heart but it would ensure he never ended up in the sort of cycle he was in when I got him. There just arent enough idiots like me that will take a chance on a horse and then actually spend the large amount of time and money it takes to get them right, or do the responsible thing if they dont come right.
 
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ester

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I think it also depends what else the horse is bringing to the table. If it is likely to either turn into something nice or is something nice people will manage issues for the right price.

If it's a badly bred cut and shut cob that has so far done nothing/unbroken then I think the answer might be different (nothing against cobs, just an example ;) )
 

luckyoldme

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each individual horse has its own story with its owner.
No one has to justify their reasons for pts, I would be more concerned with the horses who aren t pts when they are obviously suffering.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Poor you Dominobrown. I would rather PTS any of my animals than risk them ending up in a situation where I couldnt ensure their future. My worst nightmare is any of my animals being afraid and suffering - if I had to end their life rather than risk that I would. I understand my views are extreme and are not shared by the majority but if an animals end can be delivered humanely without fear and suffering, I would opt for that rather than an uncertain future.
This.

IMO it is never wrong to pts, the horse doesn't know. Yes, it's fine if you can keep them on your own land but everyone isn't in that situation and in some places grass livery is near impossible to find.
 

tallyho!

Get on with it.
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I think each circumstance should be looked at on it's own merits. I certainly think I've become a lot less emotional when it comes to making decisions whether it's a small hairy animal or a big one.

Top of the list of deciders has to be quality of life - no matter what ailment the horse has, it has to be able to have QOL either at the end of rehab (a short one preferably) or to fully recover.

Apart from the perfect horses (until something happens God forbid), it does boil down to the 'treatables' and the 'manageables'... or indeed a combination of the two coupled with availability of facilities to be able to give QOL.
 
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JJS

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It would be a serious turn up of events if I was ever in the situation where I HAD to sell a horse. I try to make sure as far as possible that they are relatively sellable just in case, but in all honesty I would live in a cardboard box myself to keep an unsaleable horse if it came to it.

As an absolute last resort, yes I would PTS rather than pass on if they had serious medical issues.
This. If there was some reason I needed to move them on, I'd look for a nice loan home (this is assuming they'd been up for sale already and nobody was biting due to their health issue), and if that couldn't be found, I'd keep the horse. I couldn't look myself in the mirror every day if I'd put to sleep a horse with minor problems for nothing more than my own convenience.
 

DabDab

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Bit close to home right now. Shiloh isn't sellable and wouldn't last the summer on grass turnout. Unless anything outside our control happens (last year we both got sick) then this is the summer when I really need to see whether she can hold up to work.

I can feel myself getting teary just thinking about it, she's not even 8 yet FFS.
Oh SEL, I feel your pain - I've retired mine to hacking only a number of times and then managed to find another way to chip away at his condition/training/management and bring him back to competing again (I think we win prizes for the slowest crawl up to elementary dressage ever). It's a bleak time of year and it's utterly depressing riding a horse that doesn't want to put one foot in front of the other. But longer days for hacking are just around the corner. Thinking of you x
 
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This.

IMO it is never wrong to pts, the horse doesn't know. Yes, it's fine if you can keep them on your own land but everyone isn't in that situation and in some places grass livery is near impossible to find.
I also agree with this. You have a duty of care to any animal you own. It is more important to make the correct decision at the end than any other time.
I would PTS rather than let them face an uncertain future. I think to many people take on horses now adays without thinking about the long term. The amount of ponies/horses that change hands every few months upsets me. Also the ponies/horses in their 20's been sold on Facebook. If you have an older horse you should be prepared to give them a decent retirement or dignity.
 

Goldenstar

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Bit close to home right now. Shiloh isn't sellable and wouldn't last the summer on grass turnout. Unless anything outside our control happens (last year we both got sick) then this is the summer when I really need to see whether she can hold up to work.

I can feel myself getting teary just thinking about it, she's not even 8 yet FFS.
I am in that place as well Fatty is out of work the only way we have ever been able to control his wieght by having him hunting he is such a good doer he said gaining wieght turned out in mud without add lib forage .
How I am going to manage summer with good QOL I have no idea.
He?s older than yours at 17 but I just love him he such a clever naughty horse .
 

Pearlsasinger

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I also agree with this. You have a duty of care to any animal you own. It is more important to make the correct decision at the end than any other time.
I would PTS rather than let them face an uncertain future. I think to many people take on horses now adays without thinking about the long term. The amount of ponies/horses that change hands every few months upsets me. Also the ponies/horses in their 20's been sold on Facebook. If you have an older horse you should be prepared to give them a decent retirement or dignity.
Very definitely this. It is a sore point as we have just had to pts 2 in 2 months, both because of end-stage Cushings. I have never sold a horse, we always keep them for life, which in some cases hasn't been very long at all but I would not buy someone else's broken down horse. I think responsible owners don't pass on horses with serious health problems - and yes there is a debate to be had about what constitutes a serious problem.
 
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I have several with issues (minor and major) even if I could find a buyer who wanted to take them on with their issues I wouldn't sell them as they are the kind of issues that need a lot of input and care to keep them comfortable and sound. As I wouldn't be able to gaurentee that if they went out of my care they won't. I'm luck enough to have my own yard so when I can no longer manage the issues enough for them to be in work they will retire. If my circumstances changed for any reason and I couldn't keep them (extreme circumstances only) they would be PTS so I could secure their future.
I do however think there are buyers for horses with minor conditions and as long as it's disclosed and they are advertised correctly people will often find suitable homes
 

Cortez

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I have in the past bought horses with various conditions for very little money on the proviso that if they don't come right they will be put down. Some have been sold on, some are still here, none (to date) have had to be PTS. I am currently pondering taking on a misfortunate horse that needs help, with the express intent of having him PTS as the present owner will not and is trying to get as much money out of him as possible whilst he is suffering (he is a stallion).
 
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This. If there was some reason I needed to move them on, I'd look for a nice loan home (this is assuming they'd been up for sale already and nobody was biting due to their health issue), and if that couldn't be found, I'd keep the horse. I couldn't look myself in the mirror every day if I'd put to sleep a horse with minor problems for nothing more than my own convenience.
Personally I am solvent, with reasonable paid job, and no caring commitments or children. But not EVERYONE is. Horses, particularly horses with health issues can be very expensive and time consuming to keep. If you don't own or rent land, or health issues are complex, horses can cost a lot of money and time.

To say someone was potentially PTS a horse with some issues, for their convenience is unfair. We all like to plan for the unexpected, but sometimes really unexpected things happen e.g. death of partner / terminally ill children / financial problems etc.

It has to be a balanced decision depending on the resources of the owner, the availability of other decent home options, and what is fair for the horse.
 
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