Follow on thread...would you PTS a horse with mild health issues

[LPL]

I feel like I am potentially in this situation. The wonderful G had to have surgery for an infected tendon sheath last summer due to a ‘superficial change’ on his DDFT. Upon vet recommendation, he has been turned out over winter up until around 3 weeks ago. He’s come in looking pretty ****.

I could afford to buy myself a project whilst G was out and the project has turned into something rather smart. G is going to the vets tomorrow and I don’t know what to think.

Scenario 1) he is totally ****ed and doesn’t come back.

2) he needs longer out

3) he’s not 100% sound but he needs to start some work to see how he copes

4) crack on.

Whatever happens tomorrow, I will not feel guilty about option 1. It’s really not the worst thing that can happen to him. It isn’t just about convenience, it’s about reality!

 

[Lurfy]

I think it is a very personal decision. I get very attached to my horses and only PTS when quality of life significantly compromised. I have held much loved horses for the vet to be euthanized and would only do that when absolutely necessary. I personally would be distraught if it wasn't absolutely necessary. I would really struggle afterwards I think. I know others who are less sentimental than me who have put to sleep horses who can't be ridden and they want riding horses only. I don't judge them.
I tend to have fewer animals so I can afford to afford to take care of them come what may.

 

[milliepops]

I think each circumstance should be looked at on it's own merits.

[...]

Apart from the perfect horses (until something happens God forbid), it does boil down to the 'treatables' and the 'manageables'... or indeed a combination of the two coupled with availability of facilities to be able to give QOL.

This rings pretty true for me too.
I have my old campaigner retired to grass simply because OH has the land available... had that not been the case I'd have had to make a difficult decision because livery with limited turnout wasn't a good alternative for her. As it happens I've been able to offer respite to another old crock to keep her company for now, too.

I don't see the point in retirement livery so far from home you rarely see them... so personally my options would have been limited if things were different. For me to give a good quality of life at livery where I live, the horses have to be in work.

 

[LPL]

I don't see the point in retirement livery so far from home you rarely see them... so personally my options would have been limited if things were different. For me to give a good quality of life at livery where I live, the horses have to be in work.

This

 

[Broodle]

I have pts a horse who I loved, who might have come good (though prognosis not great) with further extensive rehab, because very sad family circumstances meant that I didn't have the time to commit to that rehab. Field rest not an option, on vets advice. I still feel guilty from time to time, and I'm sure I've been judged for my decision, though luckily not to my face.

I've also sold a horse with dreadful hocks, with full disclosure and the understanding that they would pts if he didn't stand up to the work the wanted him for. I considered pts, but he was sound and I wanted him to have a chance. Keeping him wasn't a risk worth taking for me, and loaning is not a realistic option if you're at a yard with no spaces - what if/when they get sent back?

 

[GTRJazz]

No I would not PTS any horse with only mild health issues I bought a field soon after buying our second one so they can have their retirement when ever that day comes. I think my outlook is slightly different to some peoples as I do not have to be around horses for a living, and we used to loan a blind horse as children and ride him. I have noticed older horses and others with issues find good homes in our area as people just like them for pets nothing wrong in that.

 

[ycbm]

There's no harm in advertising these horses for the right price and the right home. Or full loan.

I have been gifted one horse that was sold on as a show jumper from a 'forever home' he went to as a light hack and rescued my own horse who was sold cheap with hock arthritis to an immaculate yard with references, where he was starved over winter.

I'd PTS before I'd risk that happening again.

I worry about the one with PSSM I've just sold cheaply because of the issue, but he was seven, in full health and full work, and I couldn't have looked him in the eyes as he was shot, and that's my only criteria for doing it.

I respect the decision of people who would make themselves poor before having a horse with good quality of life put down, but I'm not among them.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have done. I still feel a bit guilty if I think too much about it but the decision was made because I struggled to keep him happy, and as a stressy weaver it was highly obvious when he wasn't happy.
He had a selection of mild "copeable on their own" problems kissing spine so he was retired, arthritis in his knee which meant obviously he had to keep moving but was retired and did'nt want to be out. cushings which kept causing laminitic episodes regularly.
It was quite stressful looking after him. I felt constantly guilty and often sat and cried with him! I was relieved when it was done but as said can't dwell on it too much as it wasn't a clear cut choice.

 

[ycbm]

I have done. I still feel a bit guilty if I think too much about it but the decision was made because I struggled to keep him happy, and as a stressy weaver it was highly obvious when he wasn't happy.
He had a selection of mild "copeable on their own" problems kissing spine so he was retired, arthritis in his knee which meant obviously he had to keep moving but was retired and did'nt want to be out. cushings which kept causing laminitic episodes regularly.
It was quite stressful looking after him. I felt constantly guilty and often sat and cried with him! I was relieved when it was done but as said can't dwell on it too much as it wasn't a clear cut choice.

I'm sorry you found it hard. In that situation, I would have done the same, and been sad but not felt guilty.

 

[WandaMare]

I think it is a very personal decision. I get very attached to my horses and only PTS when quality of life significantly compromised. I have held much loved horses for the vet to be euthanized and would only do that when absolutely necessary. I personally would be distraught if it wasn't absolutely necessary. I would really struggle afterwards I think. I know others who are less sentimental than me who have put to sleep horses who can't be ridden and they want riding horses only. I don't judge them.
I tend to have fewer animals so I can afford to afford to take care of them come what may.

Same here, I would only pts any animal if they were suffering & it was absolutely necessary.

 

[stormox]

None of the problems you mention is a reason for PTS. I would advertise at a sensible price and tell buyers about any problems.
Many people, me included, wouldnt mind a sarcoid, sweet itch can be managed and if the 3rd one has been operated on and is now fine wheres the problem?

 

[TGM]

I don't think the first two examples are unsellable at all. A single sarcoid in a non tack area wouldn't worry me too much, and if it meant getting a good RC type at a bargain price I think a lot of people would leap at the chance. Multiple sarcoids would be a different matter.

Likewise you could sell the sweet itch pony if the problem was manageable with rugs, repellants etc., but the price would have to take it into account and you probably wouldn't make a profit on it!

The third one is more of a problem due to the fact that lots of people don't want 1. a horse in its teens 2. an ex-racer 3. one with kissing spines. I could quite understand that someone might opt to PTS such a horse rather than sending it to an uncertain future at the sales.

 

[HashRouge]

I don't think any of those horses are unsellable. Yes the price will take a hit, but I think you could sell all including the kissing spines one. If time was spent trying to sell them and it proved impossible, that's when PTS might end up being the only viable option. Mind you, I'm saying that with the certain knowledge that I would never PTS a horse with mild health issues so long as it could have a good quality of life. I just collect field ornaments instead. I currently have a 25 year old with arthritis and a 15 year old with navicular, arthritis and SI issues and they'll be with me until they're not sound and happy in the field.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have done. I still feel a bit guilty if I think too much about it but the decision was made because I struggled to keep him happy, and as a stressy weaver it was highly obvious when he wasn't happy.
He had a selection of mild "copeable on their own" problems kissing spine so he was retired, arthritis in his knee which meant obviously he had to keep moving but was retired and did'nt want to be out. cushings which kept causing laminitic episodes regularly.
It was quite stressful looking after him. I felt constantly guilty and often sat and cried with him! I was relieved when it was done but as said can't dwell on it too much as it wasn't a clear cut choice.

I would have done the same. I promised my Cushings mare that if she was ever diagnosed with laminitis, I wouldn't try to rehab her. She was a heavy horse and farrier was very pessimistic about her chances if that happened. Fortunately we avoided laminitis and she was pts when she became ataxic.
I always consider quality of life when making *that* decision and it sounds as if that was compromised in the horse you pts.

 

[Red-1]

I suppose it depends on what you call saleable...

I sold one that was lovely, currently competing BD at Ele, sound and barefoot... for £1.

He had, throughout his life, a history of going lame for no apparent reason. It was a ligament in his foot, and a steroid injection and a short period of rest soon had him sound again.

I already decided to stop eventing him, he had just moved up to Novice, and not to jump at all, but register him BD instead, with points Nov and Ele first outing. However, I was not happy not jumping, and was resenting this fine animal, so I needed a different solution.

You could say he was unsaleable due to recurrent lameness, but at £1 that proved not to be so. The home took some finding, it was someone I already knew so that was easier, as he knew the horse and I knew him. He has a forever home, or PTS, not to be sold on. I trust this, and have regular updates and photos.

We both felt that we had a good deal, I had what I saw as a free retirement home and seeing my horse happy. He got a horse that was fab for £1, and although he has had periods of lameness he has also taken the rider to his first BD, and hacks daily.



With sarcoids I did consider buying one with one. It was a Nov eventer, ready for Int. It had an active sarcoid in a place that rubbed, and was not easy to handle. However, I was not interested at 12K, even though the horse was already about half his real value. If the price had been low enough I would have bought (as he was beautifully produced and absolutely gorgeous), but my price was 6K.

With many horses then, I think they are saleable, but at a price lower than people are prepared to part with them for.

Ones in pain, as if lame or otherwise showing they are suffering, I have no issue with PTS as this is what I would do with my own.

Funnily enough I have been considering buying an older, semi retired one just as a companion and the odd companionable walk out (40 minutes at walk). But, people seem to charge £1000+ for a walking vets bill, often they seem to have personality issues too. No, that is not saleable, to me anyway!

 

[wingedhorse]

Funnily enough I have been considering buying an older, semi retired one just as a companion and the odd companionable walk out (40 minutes at walk). But, people seem to charge £1000+ for a walking vets bill, often they seem to have personality issues too. No, that is not saleable, to me anyway!

Do people actually really want £1,000 for an older full sized horse which is semi retired? Or are they just terrified it will go for meet / re-sale and trying to put a value that will limit these replies? If you actually ask them and say what you offer and what references you have?

 

[Red-1]

Do people actually really want £1,000 for an older full sized horse which is semi retired? Or are they just terrified it will go for meet / re-sale and trying to put a value that will limit these replies? If you actually ask them and say what you offer and what references you have?

Currently it is just a thought, I am rather hoping one finds me by way of word of mouth. This is what they are priced at on adverts. Until it is concrete I won't call and start to barter. It is exhausting!

The thread is about weather such animals are saleable, my point being that many would be at a realistic price. Not sure advertising them at £1000 plus is a good sales technique. I appreciate that there will be a lot of duff calls, but if you wish to re-home a compromised horse surely it is your job to do, to visit, get references, make sure everything is great for the horse.

As a ploy, to over price - I believe many people who are the people you are trying to avoid know to call and say they are great, but could only afford £100, £50, £1 or whatever. Hence, so many people genuinely advertising lower value animals then being surprised by the people calling and wanting the horse for free. So, over pricing does not really ensure anything as those wishing to make a quick buck will still call and lie (and some genuine homes will be put off).

In my world it is easier if everyone just is straight in saying what they are looking for and what they expect from a buyer. Saves time and energy all round.

If I become desperate I may get one from a charity, but as I said, I kind of hope one arrives by word of mouth. I did have one from a charity, it worked out well. They delivered an 18 months old wild one for free, I backed and brought on, 4 years later they got back a backed and trained one that was easy to re-home. I guess they would also have an older one wanting a steady away life. The only drawback for me was having one that did not feel truly 'mine'.

 

[SEL]

Oh SEL, I feel your pain - I've retired mine to hacking only a number of times and then managed to find another way to chip away at his condition/training/management and bring him back to competing again (I think we win prizes for the slowest crawl up to elementary dressage ever). It's a bleak time of year and it's utterly depressing riding a horse that doesn't want to put one foot in front of the other. But longer days for hacking are just around the corner. Thinking of you x

Thank you DabDab and to everyone else who is feeling the pain of looking after an apparently healthy horse, who has a tonne of underlying issues. DominoBrown - I really feel for you. I have no doubt that if I chose to put either of mine to sleep (& one is already a field ornament) then I would come up against a lot of grief from fellow liveries, friends, family etc. The horses are part of the family and a huge part of my life so making any call to PTS would be devastating. I can't imagine getting up in the morning and not having them both there demanding breakfast. BUT neither of them should or would be passed on.

My mare is homozygous for the leopard pattern gene, which means she would 100% throw a spotty foal and I can see someone without the knowledge or ethics that I have breeding from her for her colour - completely ignoring the problems she has, one of which is a 50% risk of being passed onto a foal.

To those who have said they would never put a horse with a minor health issue to sleep - I always thought I wouldn't either. Its proving one of those 3am conversations that just keeps going round and round in my head.

 

[SEL]

Funnily enough I have been considering buying an older, semi retired one just as a companion and the odd companionable walk out (40 minutes at walk). But, people seem to charge £1000+ for a walking vets bill, often they seem to have personality issues too. No, that is not saleable, to me anyway!

Have you looked at ex-polo ponies? I've known and ridden a lot that are in their teens, had a hard life so now only up to hacking but not really novice rides. Most of them have been at nil or negligible 'sale' price to make sure they go to a good home.

My friend's mare is well into her 20s now and prances around like something 1/2 her age. Grade A polo when she was younger.

 

[Leo Walker]

I would have done the same. I promised my Cushings mare that if she was ever diagnosed with laminitis, I wouldn't try to rehab her. She was a heavy horse and farrier was very pessimistic about her chances if that happened. Fortunately we avoided laminitis and she was pts when she became ataxic.
I always consider quality of life when making *that* decision and it sounds as if that was compromised in the horse you pts.

I tried very, very hard to save my HW cob. Its something I regret now. If it ever happens to me again, unless a treatable cause can be found or its very mild then I will PTS.

 

[samleigh]

I have had to make the call twice in 2 years and it is devastating, my first mare was PTS with PSD, would have made a lovely field ornament, she was kind and loveable, but I keep my horses in livery, have a family, & couldn't afford the time or the money for 2. I then decided to splash out buy a ready made, get straight on and catch up with lost time RC horse, she did have a very small sarcoid but took the slight risk, had a wonderful 5 months, then niggling lameness kept coming up, rest, ride, lame, then a colic episode then ulcers were diagnosed, then a 4.5hrs trip to Rossdales to MRI & XRay front feet, Sidebone, caused by conformation, medial lateral imbalance, tried everything but Vets were always guarded about her return to work, shoeing was costing £225 every 5 weeks, tried barefoot which didn't work, took the decision before Christmas to PTS, with Vet and Farriers advise that she would never stand up to work, would stay field sound but RClub activities, hacking NO...she was also only 8, had had multiple homes when I searched her breeding on Facebook in Ireland. I am now just loaning an older TB gelding, who needs some TLC & I have plenty to give, he's turning out to be a little dude, its so nice to walk down the road and not be obsessing about lameness, I don't think I can buy again after the last 4yrs, horses are too heart breaking.

 

[Cecile]

Currently it is just a thought, I am rather hoping one finds me by way of word of mouth. This is what they are priced at on adverts. Until it is concrete I won't call and start to barter. It is exhausting!

The thread is about weather such animals are saleable, my point being that many would be at a realistic price. Not sure advertising them at £1000 plus is a good sales technique. I appreciate that there will be a lot of duff calls, but if you wish to re-home a compromised horse surely it is your job to do, to visit, get references, make sure everything is great for the horse.

As a ploy, to over price - I believe many people who are the people you are trying to avoid know to call and say they are great, but could only afford £100, £50, £1 or whatever. Hence, so many people genuinely advertising lower value animals then being surprised by the people calling and wanting the horse for free. So, over pricing does not really ensure anything as those wishing to make a quick buck will still call and lie (and some genuine homes will be put off).

In my world it is easier if everyone just is straight in saying what they are looking for and what they expect from a buyer. Saves time and energy all round.

If I become desperate I may get one from a charity, but as I said, I kind of hope one arrives by word of mouth. I did have one from a charity, it worked out well. They delivered an 18 months old wild one for free, I backed and brought on, 4 years later they got back a backed and trained one that was easy to re-home. I guess they would also have an older one wanting a steady away life. The only drawback for me was having one that did not feel truly 'mine'.

I called in here a while ago there were some beauties, one was just leaving for a new hacking home in the New Forest
https://www.polopastures.com/about

 

[ycbm]

None of the problems you mention is a reason for PTS. I would advertise at a sensible price and tell buyers about any problems.
Many people, me included, wouldnt mind a sarcoid, sweet itch can be managed and if the 3rd one has been operated on and is now fine wheres the problem?

Kissing spines that have been operated on frequently break down within a few years. It's not a risk I would take on, and its not a horse I would sell in case it ended up with an unscrupulous dealer and was too stoic to show pain and dump its rider.

 

[Red-1]

Have you looked at ex-polo ponies? I've known and ridden a lot that are in their teens, had a hard life so now only up to hacking but not really novice rides. Most of them have been at nil or negligible 'sale' price to make sure they go to a good home.

My friend's mare is well into her 20s now and prances around like something 1/2 her age. Grade A polo when she was younger.

I called in here a while ago there were some beauties, one was just leaving for a new hacking home in the New Forest
https://www.polopastures.com/about

Thank you both. I am receptive for a new one, but not quite ready to go get yet (unless one finds me first). I will bear this in mind.

 

[Laika]

I have had to make the call twice in 2 years and it is devastating, my first mare was PTS with PSD, would have made a lovely field ornament, she was kind and loveable, but I keep my horses in livery, have a family, & couldn't afford the time or the money for 2. I then decided to splash out buy a ready made, get straight on and catch up with lost time RC horse, she did have a very small sarcoid but took the slight risk, had a wonderful 5 months, then niggling lameness kept coming up, rest, ride, lame, then a colic episode then ulcers were diagnosed, then a 4.5hrs trip to Rossdales to MRI & XRay front feet, Sidebone, caused by conformation, medial lateral imbalance, tried everything but Vets were always guarded about her return to work, shoeing was costing £225 every 5 weeks, tried barefoot which didn't work, took the decision before Christmas to PTS, with Vet and Farriers advise that she would never stand up to work, would stay field sound but RClub activities, hacking NO...she was also only 8, had had multiple homes when I searched her breeding on Facebook in Ireland. I am now just loaning an older TB gelding, who needs some TLC & I have plenty to give, he's turning out to be a little dude, its so nice to walk down the road and not be obsessing about lameness, I don't think I can buy again after the last 4yrs, horses are too heart breaking.

This sounds unbelievably heart breaking, I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. Big hugs.