Follow up of numnah slipping under saddle - saddle fit pics :(

Tiarella

Tiarella

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2007
Messages
9,415
Location
warwickshire
www.myspace.com
following on from this post http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...y-saddle-cloth-from-under-my-saddle-any-ideas

I rode this lunch time in my friends gel pad, it tipped the saddle a little forward because of the fluff at the back but the saddlecloth did stay in place better compared to how much it was moving, but still moved far too much. I took some back confo shots and pics of saddle on his back too to see if anyone could shed some light. I know his conformation isnt brilliant, he is long in the back and croup high, but so are many other horses and they still have saddles that fit!

This saddle was fitted to him 6 days ago...

1622878_10153722994645123_1638801502_n_zps0f113c81.jpg

1546054_10153722994535123_2007740093_n_zps37ccccb1.jpg

1625602_10153722994745123_2112565942_n_zpsbf89c965.jpg

1554461_10153722994855123_1085611439_n_zpsea8758df.jpg

1236966_10153722994970123_1769633220_n_zps9aa57ab1.jpg

9823_10153722995020123_446328282_n_zps8c8979f3.jpg

1653577_10153722995300123_1270953940_n_zpsaedb6dff.jpg

1622848_10153722995170123_1143087112_n_zpsc0fddb20.jpg


Im absolutely losing the will to live. Im now spending thousands on new saddles when my budget was in the hundreds and I still cant find anything suitable. My saddle fitter swore by the bates saddle and it would be perfect for him.
 
Hello there, I had a problem with Bates fitting my Connie. Do not think they are the right fit for something with not a lot of wither. He is currently in a Farringdon dressage saddle (custom fit) and a Native Saddle Company GP. Both don't slip and seem to suit him. Have a look on Saddles Direct for inspiration...
 
It looks to me as if the saddle is sliding back, not much but a little, the girth is far back also so the chances are the whole thing is moving backwards, can you try different girth straps and see if that helps, is the girth short enough so not up too high, that can make a huge difference to stability, but that said the saddle should not be moving if fitted correctly. Was it fitted with the fluffy pad, as that will make a difference.
 
did your fitter fit the saddle with both the half pad and a full numnah, just wondering as that may be like trying to squeeze more socks onto your feet and expecting your shoes to still fit, but sorry if this is in your other thread as I have not seen it.
 
You really need to read other thread to get the full story.

Saddle fitter fitted this saddle 4 weeks ago, saddle cloths slipped, she came out 6 days ago and adjusted saddle again, saddlecloth still slipped so today I borrowed a friends acavallo gel pad to see if they would stop the slipping but it hasn't.
 
I'm not a saddle fitter but looking at the first two photos I would say the girth is too far back. Have you tried a forward cut girth? What girth did your fitter recommend you use with the saddle?

I had trouble with saddles slipping back on my youngster and the fitter said saddle was fine but shape of the pony needed a forward cut girth. Switched girths and no more slippage troubles.
 
To my untrained eye I think the problem is the fact your horse has a huge shoulder. we are currently have the same problem with our tb, his topline and muscles have built up really well. he is in a wintec vsd that for the past four years has fit him perfectly but the last few months has started moving back. my saddle fitter thinks we need to try a shaped girth that allows for the movement of his shoulder, she said about the fair fax ones but you can get a cheaper make.

does it move without anything on?
 
I thought bates were same as wintecs ie banana shaped tree unless they have changed it so surprised it was deemed perfect on that count though as far as I can tell the fit looks ok. He doesn't look like he needs a forwards girth to me. Not like Frank's groove anyway.
 
Very atrophied whither. You will always have this problem unless you build muscle in that area again. I had same issues back in 2009 with my boy. Once his musculature improved, we never had a problem.

That saddle is way too high at the back by the way you will never be in a good position. It's not the saddle, its the horses back. You can't fit a saddle to a bad back, you will always have problems. You need a saddle to allow the muscle to build back up again not to impinge it further.

I would look into EE saddles or contact a balance saddle fitter. Lavinia Mitchell came highly recommended to me and solved it for me so I would recommend her on to others.
 
TigerTail said:
Have you got a pic of the right side sans saddle? His left side shows muscle atrophy so is the saddler fitting to his current shape, which wouldnt allow that to recover, or leaving room and therefore you are padding up to let it grow?

Have a look at these
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/flexee_intro.htm
Click to expand...

He is actually weaker on his right side of his wither, this is still building up.

I would never use one of them EE saddles - my ex sharer used one on him and the fit was absolutely diobolical no matter what you did to alter it.
 
Would a 5 point breast plate help?
I know this isn't going to be a cure, but can't see, with his shape there is going to be one for some time - least not a 'quick, cheap' cure.
Also, have you used anything other than your saddle pad (+ friends sheepskin gel pad?).. is less more?
 
tallyho! said:
Very atrophied whither. You will always have this problem unless you build muscle in that area again. I had same issues back in 2009 with my boy. Once his musculature improved, we never had a problem.

That saddle is way too high at the back by the way you will never be in a good position. It's not the saddle, its the horses back. You can't fit a saddle to a bad back, you will always have problems. You need a saddle to allow the muscle to build back up again not to impinge it further.

I would look into EE saddles or contact a balance saddle fitter. Lavinia Mitchell came highly recommended to me and solved it for me so I would recommend her on to others.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for your advice :)

Unfortunately he is weak over his back/ wither area as he went awfully lame April 2012, had to have a long time off so it's still building back up now - hence the reason for the adjustable saddle to alter it as he comes up.

Please read comment above about EE saddles - they just don't work for him at all.

Do you think his conformation will always be an issue with regards to saddle fit? He is croup high so I don't think his back will ever have a level top line. But yes, I always feel like I'm tipping forward regardless.
 
Trying to find a saddle to fit for mine who has similar issues to you - flat back, croup high and some withers. I'm going to try native pony saddle company but will probably regret it when she grows out of it - she's only rising 5 at the moment.
 
Don't know if it's helpful since you've bought this saddle but for my flat back, low withered, big shouldered native I went with the Native pony saddle company (make sure it's the one run by Andrea Hicks as there are a couple with similar names). They were patient, fabulous and generally brilliant and after 5 months of attempting to get one that fitted us both I was losing the will to live. I also chose a curved girth as my pony has a very forward girth groove and previously my saddle was sliding forwards (as well as all over the place!). The new saddle has made such a massive difference to my pony's way of going I am slightly evangelical about it but I started with a budget of a few hundred, doubled it and it was worth every penny!
 
Did you have the EE saddle actually fitted by a fitter? It certainly wouldnt have caused the atrophy you have presently.

You can't fit a treed saddle to a shape like that and expect it to be stable, by its very nature it has a rigid frame - therefore its going to tip. Riding on top of a saddle that doesnt fit on a shape like that is just going to exacerbate the problem.

Im glad Tally ho mentioned the shape of the saddle - look at where the stirrup bars are in relation to the seat!
 
So where do I go from here? Do I do a formal complaint that saddle fitter sold me a saddle that isn't actually suited to my horse at all? This is so stressful, I just want a saddle that fits!
 
How many girth straps does it have? If it has four you could try just using the front (point strap) and the rear (balance strap), with out all the numnah padding underneath.
 
Yes I could try using diff girth straps. I saddle fitter told me to use the 2nd and 3rd and leave off the 1st to give more room for his shoulders to move and stops it bouncing around on his back.
 
Bobbly said:
How many girth straps does it have? If it has four you could try just using the front (point strap) and the rear (balance strap), with out all the numnah padding underneath.
Click to expand...

I was going to say something along these lines. Place the girth in the girth groove, use the front and back girth strap - and get rid of all the padding under the saddle.

Do you have any semi sturdy saddle clothes? Like ones that are not thick and bulky, but have some shape to them? Something you couldn't really crunkle up like a piece of material, as it would spring back and hold its shape. These are much less likely to crease and move like in your first photo.

Something like this -

271235758778_1.jpg


Id try a more sturdy non bulky saddle pad, and the first and last girth straps before contacting the saddler again.
 
alainax said:
I was going to say something along these lines. Place the girth in the girth groove, use the front and back girth strap - and get rid of all the padding under the saddle.

Do you have any semi sturdy saddle clothes? Like ones that are not thick and bulky, but have some shape to them? Something you couldn't really crunkle up like a piece of material, as it would spring back and hold its shape. These are much less likely to crease and move like in your first photo.

Something like this -

271235758778_1.jpg


Id try a more sturdy non bulky saddle pad, and the first and last girth straps before contacting the saddler again.
Click to expand...

I have tried a sturdy one, a numed one with the tiny diamonds so really tight and sturdy. It still moved back under and out the back of the gullet and slipped further back than the front of the saddle.

Would people say an elastic or none elastic girth would be better?

Saddle fitter told me to use a non elastic on the 2nd and 3rd as if I use it on the 1st the saddle bounces round at the back.

I had full trust in this saddle fitter too :(
 
rachaelstar said:
Thankyou for your advice :)

Unfortunately he is weak over his back/ wither area as he went awfully lame April 2012, had to have a long time off so it's still building back up now - hence the reason for the adjustable saddle to alter it as he comes up.

Please read comment above about EE saddles - they just don't work for him at all.

Do you think his conformation will always be an issue with regards to saddle fit? He is croup high so I don't think his back will ever have a level top line. But yes, I always feel like I'm tipping forward regardless.
Click to expand...

I would say no to adjustable saddle. I know you have spent a lot, but I think it's time you worked with someone who is experienced at dealing with this "conformation". I do quotes because I dont think this is his true conformation. There is a lot of work to be done. It will help to do unmounted work with him too. His back WILL have a top line trust me but not if you keep putting on saddles that don't work for him now. You are tipping forward on any saddle most likely because each saddle pinches him in exactly the same spot so he hollows. You can see him hollow in your pictures. Now I see you on him I can see how EE saddles would not work. I suggest you do some research on muscle atrophy, balance saddles and exercises to help.
 
rachaelstar said:
This is a pic of me sitting in the saddle if that helps aynone?
DSCF0205_zps9794d3f5.jpg
Click to expand...

In this picture, the saddle is a tad far forward. The panels will be right behind the whither and since there is no muscle there, it will be quite uncomfortable and you can see he curls his back away from your seat in order to relieve the pressure making him look like he has a high croup. He doesn't. He is pretty level actually. In my opinion, you need a wider saddle and you need front riser pads until he muscles up enough to fit into the space of the panels but I'm not there to see and feel so I honestly think you should look at the options.
 
tallyho! said:
I would say no to adjustable saddle. I know you have spent a lot, but I think it's time you worked with someone who is experienced at dealing with this "conformation". I do quotes because I dont think this is his true conformation. There is a lot of work to be done. It will help to do unmounted work with him too. His back WILL have a top line trust me but not if you keep putting on saddles that don't work for him now. You are tipping forward on any saddle most likely because each saddle pinches him in exactly the same spot so he hollows. You can see him hollow in your pictures. Now I see you on him I can see how EE saddles would not work. I suggest you do some research on muscle atrophy, balance saddles and exercises to help.
Click to expand...

Could I ask which pics you've seen of him hollowing? When he is doing flatwork he works lovely over his back, round and forward - sometimes a little inconsistent but no worse than anything else. Do I stop riding him then? The thing is, this bates saddle he actually goes very nicely in it for the moment but it's clear it won't be suitable for him. I was planning on going to a master saddler next Wednesday and getting a different opinion so hopefully I can put in a formal complaint and atleast get some money back!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top