Follow up of numnah slipping under saddle - saddle fit pics :(

Right - I spoke to another sms saddler today who agreed that it does not fit, and isn't the correct shape for him at all and it just won't work. I then rang my sms fitter who insisted it did fit and did not know why the saddlecloths moved, said I could have a refund but take 20% off as it's a used saddle. Rang sms themselves and they said I need to put in writing everything that has happend. At the end of the day my saddle is unusable because it tips forward which make the saddlecloths go back so I'm getting off every 5 minutes to re adjust everything so think I deserve a full refund - it's not just because I don't 'want' the saddle anymore.

What do you think I should do from here?
 
Honestly a discount of only 20% for it being second hand is pretty good, there are lots of excellent condition under 12 month old second hand saddles for 50% of their new price so I'd consider taking it and moving on - not fair and not right but you could spend a lot of time/ effort and cash getting that last 20% (which I'm guessing is less than £200)?
 
In the letter, as well as describing the problem, include photos and quote your consumer rights act. You might have to look this up online and don't let them fob you off. As for the fitter who said it fits.... says it all!

I would expect a full refund for any goods that did not fit me properly e.g. Shoes or apparel. I'm not walking into debenhams with a returned item and they knock 20% off!!!! Same applies I believe unless you have damaged it in any way. The fitter should have fitted it properly in the first place!
 
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Polos Mum said:
Honestly a discount of only 20% for it being second hand is pretty good, there are lots of excellent condition under 12 month old second hand saddles for 50% of their new price so I'd consider taking it and moving on - not fair and not right but you could spend a lot of time/ effort and cash getting that last 20% (which I'm guessing is less than £200)?
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It's not second hand, it's brand new - 4 weeks old.
 
rachaelstar said:
Right - I spoke to another sms saddler today who agreed that it does not fit, and isn't the correct shape for him at all and it just won't work. I then rang my sms fitter who insisted it did fit and did not know why the saddlecloths moved, said I could have a refund but take 20% off as it's a used saddle. Rang sms themselves and they said I need to put in writing everything that has happend. At the end of the day my saddle is unusable because it tips forward which make the saddlecloths go back so I'm getting off every 5 minutes to re adjust everything so think I deserve a full refund - it's not just because I don't 'want' the saddle anymore.

What do you think I should do from here?
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Did you buy it from the saddler directly? If so, then you have to send them a recorded delivery letter stating when you bought it, why it is not fit for purpose, and that you require a full refund within 14 days.

Failure for them to do so will result in you opening a case with trading standards, who will contact them directly in the first instance to try to find a solution.
 
rachaelstar said:
I just used the sheepskin gel pad for 20 min this morning to see if it stopped saddlecloths slipping...it didn't :(
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Fair enough, worth a try :-)

It's a PITA when they don't fit, I hope you get it sorted out soon for both your peace of mind and the annoyance that comes with the cloth slipping. I bought a saddle pad with the non slip where the saddle sits on top and that has alleviated the problem completely.
 
tallyho! said:
In the letter, as well as describing the problem, include photos and quote your consumer rights act. You might have to look this up online and don't let them fob you off. As for the fitter who said it fits.... says it all!

I would expect a full refund for any goods that did not fit me properly e.g. Shoes or apparel. I'm not walking into debenhams with a returned item and they knock 20% off!!!! Same applies I believe unless you have damaged it in any way. The fitter should have fitted it properly in the first place!
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This ^^^^
Then take them to court if necessary. Get everything in writing, like opinions from other saddle fitters that it doesn't fit.
 
Good luck Op you ought to get a full refund .
I would pm sbloom on here for advice she's a saddler and very generous with her help.
No harm in getting as much imfo as possible before you try again .
 
Write a letter as suggested above, and perhaps see if the other fitter is willing to write a letter to back up what you are saying. A good friend of mine bought a saddle for her boy from one saddler, and after a short period she felt something wasn't right - she went back to original saddler, who insisted it did fit and made a few adjustments. She however wasn't convinced and like yourself went to get a second opinion. The 2nd saddler confirmed that it did not fit and was of the opinion that the saddle could never have been suitable for this particular horse. As far as I remember, the first saddler initially offered an exchange but when the 2nd one got involved and suggested that he may take the matter further with the SMS, the first saddler relented and offered a full refund.
 
He seems very similar in shape to YP. I must have been very lucky to find a saddle that fitted him first time round. He's another in a falcon hawk event saddle, which don't go for masses second hand on eBay if that's a route you want to go. I can take some pictures of him and the saddle tomorrow if you want to see if you think it might be a suitable option for you. It's fitted him from when I first got him and he was obese and still fits now he's a good weight.
 
dafthoss said:
He seems very similar in shape to YP. I must have been very lucky to find a saddle that fitted him first time round. He's another in a falcon hawk event saddle, which don't go for masses second hand on eBay if that's a route you want to go. I can take some pictures of him and the saddle tomorrow if you want to see if you think it might be a suitable option for you. It's fitted him from when I first got him and he was obese and still fits now he's a good weight.
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Yes please dafthoss, that would be perfect!
 
Went to another sms today - well two actually they were both there at horsesense. They spent a long time, looking at back, taking photos, chalking the saddle/his back and came to the conclusion, that it wasnt suitable for him. Spoke to my saddle fitter and she disagreed and said she will come out again and watch me ride in it (with saddlecloth this time!) and see what my issues are.

Where do you think I should go from here? I have no idea who to listen to or who to trust.

My current saddle fitter took it personally that I went and asked another sms fitter their opinions and is going to get sms involved anyway. I never wanted to upset anyone, I just wanted the best for my horse!
 
Look at thorowgood or kent and masters saddles for round types. I've had four now and not been disappointed in them nor had them slip nor move once fitted and I've had two round horses and a TBx with no issues.

Wouldn't touch a bates or winter for my own horses with a barge pole.
 
rachaelstar said:
Went to another sms today - well two actually they were both there at horsesense. They spent a long time, looking at back, taking photos, chalking the saddle/his back and came to the conclusion, that it wasnt suitable for him. Spoke to my saddle fitter and she disagreed and said she will come out again and watch me ride in it (with saddlecloth this time!) and see what my issues are.

Where do you think I should go from here? I have no idea who to listen to or who to trust.

My current saddle fitter took it personally that I went and asked another sms fitter their opinions and is going to get sms involved anyway. I never wanted to upset anyone, I just wanted the best for my horse!
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I think I would write to the company at once detailing what the two fitters said and their details of course .
I don't know if I would bother with the first fitter again but if you do make sure you have a a sensible horsey witness with you on the day .
It's not personal it's buisness that's all don't let yourself get dragged into it being personal
The company ought to give you a full refund for this saddle IMO .
 
wouldnt waste my time with the first fitter - once you've lost confidence in someone's competency you will always second guess them, at the end of the day that horse comes first and that saddle doesn't fit.
 
I understand that this is fast becoming a situation where YOU are the one feeling bad and defenceless.

It's not for me to call on the talents of your original fitter but if two others think it does not fit, then you should not let her come back. N stead, get statements from the other two fitters and write to the company. You are at the precipice of being bullied now. Stand up for your rights as a consumer. Stand up for your horse. Having a correctly fitted saddle is the very basic requirement of riding and it should be top of anyone's list to be the right fit. No amount of padding, straps and dead sheep is ever going to take away the bare fact that its not a good fit.
 
This is so bleeding difficult :( she won't give me full refund because she thinks the saddle fits and is standing by that. She is then getting sms involved and trying to get other saddle fitters into trouble as I went to them for a 2nd opinion.
 
Take her out of the equation and go to the head of SMS - explain the facts of the situation, no emotions, and state that you require a full refund as the saddle doesn't fit - as confirmed by TWO of their own fitters. END OF!!!
 
rachaelstar said:
This is so bleeding difficult :( she won't give me full refund because she thinks the saddle fits and is standing by that. She is then getting sms involved and trying to get other saddle fitters into trouble as I went to them for a 2nd opinion.
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I agree with tallyho don't be bullied .
Write to telling her the saddle is not fit for purpose you want a full refund detail everything thats happened in bullet points as sustinctly as possible you will take action if she does not refund your money .
Copy it to the company with a covering letter saying you wish to resolve this with out going to the small claims court but you will if necessary .
See what happens .
Buying a saddle should not be like this .
 
Goldenstar said:
I agree with tallyho don't be bullied.
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I am with Goldenstar - in theory - because i had the same problem with the same saddler (I know cos I PM'ed the OP) - sold two saddles in this case one such a poor fit I could see huge amounts of daylight under the panels it only sat on her back at shoulder and back of cantle. She agreed to reflock but problem still there, i rode 20 mins without a numnah to see where the grease was and there were huge parts of the under side of panels totally clean afterwards. but then we just got stuck, i said it didn't fit she said it did - total stalemate. With the second saddle I tried one which I liked for flat but which was no use for jumping and after a weeks deliberation I decided i would buy it just for dressage when i collected the 'same' saddle I swear it was a different one, (I think it was a kent and masters VSD I tried - she swears I tried the kent and masters cob GP) and got quite upset when I tried to insist. fitted a wider gullet in it when I complained it tilted me forwards (the one I tried was very well balanced for me) I rode in it three times and gave up. Two useless saddles and stalemate with fitter. my horse then went lame and had to have 6 weeks off work. I decided to walk away and have now sold both saddles on at a loss of about 400 pounds.


so OP do it! because someone should!
 
Who is the fitter? As i mentioned earlier i had a saddle company saddle fitted VERY badly by a fitter i got recommended by the saddle company! It would be interesting to know if it was the same person as she 'fitted' several different makes.
 
tallyho! said:
Can you report a registered saddle fitter??
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Is there such a thing as a registration for saddle fitters? Just as a general view...if someone says they are a master saddler and you don't know them, then I would ring and check with the worshipful society of master saddlers. I do know someone years ago who said they were a MS but in fact were not.

Please update us ...I find it very interesting.
 
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