Following on from other XC threads: How much should the rider be doing on the XC?

star

star

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 August 2001
Messages
6,781
Location
Woking, Surrey
Visit site
I'm loving all these eventing/XC threads as it's great to read everyone's opinions and learn new things. Now I'm gonna put my neck on the line a bit so please go gently with me! I hope I am not one of those riders people watch and cringe at! I am fairly self-taught XC - I've been to several XC clinics with different people but never felt I've gained that much from them. It's always been about jump this fence then that fence and if horse does it ok then move on. This is my first season eventing having done 3 seasons hunting and not a lot of XC ever before in my life. I sometimes feel like I've got round on a wing and a prayer with a very good horse helping me out a lot. I feel like I've had a few rides this season like kerilli described in the other thread where the horse has just galloped and jumped and everything has gone smoothly but others where I feel like I fiddled around far too much and messed things up even if we ended up with a clear in the time at the end of it.

From what I can tell analysing pics and vids my position seems to be ok enough but what I wonder about is what everyone else does on the approach to a fence? When I watch the pros I cant tell what they're up to as they do it so imperceptably. When it comes to big, bold fences in a straight line I seem to be quite capable of keeping up the gallop, keeping my leg on and taking them out of my stride and they seem to go well. I think the 2 biggest fences on the course in our BE100 on Sunday were the ones we jumped the best. I know that I cant mince around to a big fence and so I ride positively and normally it all goes ok. Although I did read in my Ginny Leng XC book a bit where she says it's not just about looking up and kicking when talking about riding XC fences which has confused me a bit as I would say that's pretty much what I do on the way to a straightforward fence - just keep the gallop, focus on the fence and keep leg on. Am I doing it all wrong?

Anyway, in general it's the little fiddly fences that seem to go wrong. I think I'm under the impression I need to create a steadier bouncier canter for these jumps (have all the threads on here about coffin canters and not approaching these fences too fast in my mind) and when I attempt this I just manage to kill the canter, lose any ability to see a stride, fiddle with his mouth and we end up getting in far too deep. I could show you the video from fence 3 and 4 on Sunday which was 2 small hanging logs on a curved line but it's so cringeworthy I dont think I can post it in public! Let's just say I fiddled so much that he practically stopped in front of the first fence. And then the corner, I fiddled around worrying about his canter needing to be shorter and bouncier so I could control his line and just ended up killing any impulsion and he just ended up bouncing out the side.

I know it's probably difficult for people to give advice on a forum about this sort of thing, but I could just do with some advice on how to approach the fiddly fences. How far away from the fence do you start to set up and what do you do from then to the fence? And if anyone would be happy to give some private video critique then I dont mind PMing some links to XC we've done this yr - just not up for a public flogging!

Any help appreciated please :)
 
Last edited:
i completely get your point - it is always the smaller fiddly ones that mess up, and i find it because a big hedge or table or summat normally has a good solid ground line,: we know we have to keep the revs up, steady the horse, see the stride, pop, simple. :D
the smaller ones, going through our heads is too much normally.. slow the horse down, but still need the revs, focus more on where to jump the fence, what to do on landing, where to approach, where to look, what spooky thing is going to jump out and kill our horse, get the right stride to it.. you get what i mean.. after all this, we normally end up scuffing.. why... because we think about it wayyy to much/!

i find if i just slow down a wee bit and make sure the canter is bouncy, bouncy bouncy and imagine it to be a small x pole or a telegraph pole on the ground, and just make sure i am keeping looking to the next fence then we normally get to it better, but lots of the time there is not as a true ground line as the bigger ones.. also, espcially at BE90/100 the speed shouldnt need adjusting too much.. (spose this is dependent on horse size)
hope all this makes sense.. will be interested to see the other posts!!
 
Last edited:
I think there are some good descriptions of what XC should feel like on the other thread.
I think the first thing is if you could try to think of the more technical fences as needing a little more accuracy and control rather than fiddly fences, you are already thinking fiddle/interfere which is not what you should be doing.
I try to get the rider to sit up a little about 6 strides away, this in itself should be enough to get the horse into a slightly shorter frame and enable the rider to get a more secure hold onto the line they wish to ride. If the horse is going in front of the leg, as hopefully it should be, you can then maintain the rhythm and keep up the revs whilst shortening the stride on the approach, the amount of shortening required will depend on the difficulty of the fence.
When going into a combination once you are on line in the correct canter it should then be possible to hold the line you want and the stride should come to you, no fiddling or correction needed.
The saying the last 3 strides are the horses is a good one, it is the riders job to get them there in the best possible way and the horses job to jump the fence.
 
thanks for the book recommendations - winter reading!

I cant actually upload the vid at the moment as my youtube up the spout but imagine someone killing the canter to the point where the horse almost stops and jumps practically from a standstill and you have it. I dont do it all the time, just when I think I should be coming into a jump with more control - combinations, skinnies etc. What I need to know is how you should ride these fences as obviously I'm getting it wrong at the moment!
 
Blyths book is brilliant as it talks about the gears you need for each kind of fence. It also explains them really clearly and is the book I read at least twice a year.

You can practice your issue in the arena. Set up a simple fence and just keep coming to it but change the scenario in your brain. So coming into a coffin, then coming into a corner and choose a colour on the pole to be accurate, then coming into a double, coming into an angled fence, plain fence. Just keep coming round making sure you are opening up the canter in between and what will happen is you will get quicker at setting up for it and use your body and not your hand.
 
^^^ all good advice already.
i'd just add, how early you need to set up depends on your horse's natural balance (on forehand or not?), front leg style (the better it is the more trusting you can be!), experience (ditto), whether the horse sets himself up (many do), and how early you can see your distance, i think.
it sounds as if you are decelerating into the base of the fence, something that cost me a few v costly stops (from v honest horses) before i realised what i was doing wrong. you have to rebalance, get your new (slower or more balanced) pace, and then RIDE FORWARD to the fence in that, not slow down into the fence, if that makes sense.
try working out a set place where you will rebalance, say a certain letter in the school, and then riding forward in a bouncier canter to a fence, hopefully it'll feel better.
also, all the talk of 'coffin canter' on here - well, not many fences nowadays (esp at lower levels) really demand it. true 'coffins', with a proper drop on landing, 1 stride, ditch, up slope on 1 stride to upright, yes, they do, and sunken roads etc, and perhaps v tight turning questions, but it's prob not something you really need very often.
as for how much i do - it depends totally on the horse and how rideable it is really.
one thing for sure, the Pros who look as if they're doing nothing, they are probably doing quite a bit, but mostly very tiny corrections... they feel the horse waver, back off, or whatever and correct it way before most of us would, so it rarely turns into a bigger problem...
 
be positive said:
Can you think of them as a SJ combo. and ride them same way.
Click to expand...

I seem to have got over my want to fiddle and hold into SJing fences now so yes, I could try and ride them like I now ride when I'm SJing. I think that might work in my brain. For SJ I just try and establish a nice rhythmical canter, half halt as I come round the corner and then just keep positive contact from leg to hand sort of like I'm funnelling him towards the fence - no hookin allowed! Am definitely not doing this XC. I have one last chance to get this right this Sunday so fingers crossed will put everyone's advice into practice. It's a course we've been round 3 times clear but definitely still room for improvement.

LEC - have just ordered both the books. Bit late for this season but am determined to be more prepared for next season.

If anyone has any recommendations for good, constructive instructors XC in the South-East then would be glad to hear of them as would like to do some clinics before we start again next yr.
 
kerilli said:
it sounds as if you are decelerating into the base of the fence, something that cost me a few v costly stops (from v honest horses) before i realised what i was doing wrong. you have to rebalance, get your new (slower or more balanced) pace, and then RIDE FORWARD to the fence in that, not slow down into the fence, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I do, and it wasn't until I read that I that I understood what I'm doing wrong! Thanks K :D
 
kerilli said:
it sounds as if you are decelerating into the base of the fence, something that cost me a few v costly stops (from v honest horses) before i realised what i was doing wrong. you have to rebalance, get your new (slower or more balanced) pace, and then RIDE FORWARD to the fence in that, not slow down into the fence, if that makes sense.
try working out a set place where you will rebalance, say a certain letter in the school, and then riding forward in a bouncier canter to a fence, hopefully it'll feel better.
Click to expand...

that is exactly what I'm doing and if I keep doing it I'm sure he will start stopping so want to sort it asap. It's what I was doing SJing and have sorted that by doing what you have said - rebalance and then ride forward, so I think I just need to try and apply the same logic out on the XC course. I have been letting nerves affect my ability to think about how best to ride at these obstacles. Thinking about making them into a SJ in my mind should help me a lot. Thanks guys :D
 
A good way to do this which I read in an article is to decide what speed the fence need to be ridden at - so lets say a chase fence is a 10, and a bounce is a 4. It's your own personal scale relative to how your horse gallops.

You then bring the horse back to a notch or two below the speed required several strides out, then ride up to the speed needed on the approach so your last 4-5 strides are the correct speed. You've rebalanced early enough, you are coming in forwards to the fence because you've had to accelerate to get back up to the right speed, and you're not fiddling in front of the fence because you know your horse is balanced and going at the right pace.

I will often pick an immovable object like a tree or a fence post and say, right, here is where I sit up and get the pace I want so that here I can turn and here I can move forwards to the fence.
 
I'm reading this from a phone so have yet to see all the replies.

The last few times I've done XC I've found that I've managed to end up with long reins while doing combinations and such. I don't know what I'm doing, but I think if horsey is keeping his head I'm subconsciously giving him more leeway I relying more on my body and weight distribution (or at least that's what I think).
During the summer we had a few rallies where we tackled combinations that were catching people out XC, with the combinations replicated with poles and show jumps. It was interesting to see how everyone was taking on the combinations. Now I couldn't tell you if I do XC in the 'correct PC' way, but I tend to sit and ride the last few strides, (somehow?) give rein and then do the not so nice long reins and opening hand combo plus turning all of me and letting horsie set the stride :o (we're jumping 1m max though)

Trying the same layouts and combinations over knockables really helped to make the full picture, I felt I could try them a few different ways more easily than over solid jumps.
 
SpottedCat said:
A good way to do this which I read in an article is to decide what speed the fence need to be ridden at - so lets say a chase fence is a 10, and a bounce is a 4. It's your own personal scale relative to how your horse gallops.

You then bring the horse back to a notch or two below the speed required several strides out, then ride up to the speed needed on the approach so your last 4-5 strides are the correct speed. You've rebalanced early enough, you are coming in forwards to the fence because you've had to accelerate to get back up to the right speed, and you're not fiddling in front of the fence because you know your horse is balanced and going at the right pace.

I will often pick an immovable object like a tree or a fence post and say, right, here is where I sit up and get the pace I want so that here I can turn and here I can move forwards to the fence.
Click to expand...

That's really very useful, esp the last paragraph - I will try that at the weekend - thanks very much :D
 
William Fox Pitt has also written a brilliant book which shows how to tackle every type of fence. My YO goes out XC training a lot and we aren't far from you so if you are int, I can always ask her if she would take another on?

I really do find it helpful as well to go and watch XC and not just the high level stuff. I will go to the fences that are causing problems to watch the riders and always ask the fence judges how the fence should be ridden as well. Really interesting. So eg, Firle Intro. Fence 5 caused carnage - turn, slope down to a twisted looking fence then related jump away. Every horse slowed down (tick) but nearly ever one forgot to take the camber on the turn into account and the horses all ended up facing the really wide part. The ones that got it right steadied before they hit the corner, then could ride on straight. Not obvious when walking the course.

Its also worth seeking out and travelling to other clinics whenever possible too
 
star said:
That's really very useful, esp the last paragraph - I will try that at the weekend - thanks very much :D
Click to expand...

If you beat me on Sunday after that I will let the air out of your tyres and then drive off laughing ;)

[I now feel compelled to say I am only joking, it's a bit sad I feel that way, isn't it?!]
 
Star - there is a XC clinic that I am going to at Littleton on the 5th of Nov with BE accrediated trainer Caroline Jeanne. I have not had a clinic with her before, but have heard positive things from other people, so thought I'd give it a go since I can hack over to Littleton from the yard I am about to move to.

I have just watched an old video that I have of me riding around the BRC open 3DE champs from 2005 or 2006 I think. It was a round I remember enjoying very much and feeling like my horse had no hesitations and no near-misses. Watching it now to me it looks like I did very little, there were a lot of skinnies, I had to take a few pulls on him, but still kept coming forwards. I look a bit floppy in the saddle and sometimes a little bit in front of the movement - I think I am probably in much better balance now that I ride full time - but the horse just looks like he is doing the course all by himself.

If it works there is a link to the vid on my facebook, not sure if you have to be friends or not, but i'll try it anyway.. http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=10150110695911355
 
SpottedCat said:
If you beat me on Sunday after that I will let the air out of your tyres and then drive off laughing ;)

[I now feel compelled to say I am only joking, it's a bit sad I feel that way, isn't it?!]
Click to expand...

lol - if I beat you on Sunday it will probably be nothing to do with your XC advice (as useful as I'm going to find that) as even without it he has been round T/down XC clear in the time so many times now I think he could take himself! Hopefully we will just have a nicer, smoother round thanks to it! Given how our dressage has been going recently the likelihood of us beating many people at all is quite slim!
 
Luci07 said:
William Fox Pitt has also written a brilliant book which shows how to tackle every type of fence. My YO goes out XC training a lot and we aren't far from you so if you are int, I can always ask her if she would take another on?

I really do find it helpful as well to go and watch XC and not just the high level stuff. I will go to the fences that are causing problems to watch the riders and always ask the fence judges how the fence should be ridden as well. Really interesting. So eg, Firle Intro. Fence 5 caused carnage - turn, slope down to a twisted looking fence then related jump away. Every horse slowed down (tick) but nearly ever one forgot to take the camber on the turn into account and the horses all ended up facing the really wide part. The ones that got it right steadied before they hit the corner, then could ride on straight. Not obvious when walking the course.

Its also worth seeking out and travelling to other clinics whenever possible too
Click to expand...

Thanks - would definitely be interested in more training. I have to say I have avoided XC schooling with him since landing on my arse far too many times before the beginning of this season. I dont ride as positively when my adrenaline's not up and esp if there' no-one shouting at me to ride forwards. Also, he tends to nap back to the others and is so sharp when he starts doing that so we really haven't practised anything this yr, just ridden round courses in competition.

I do try and watch as much XC as possible, will go along to events early to watch others or the day before and I watch all the stuff on H&C tv although obviously that's more pros and they dont get it wrong as often.
 
RachelFerd said:
Star - there is a XC clinic that I am going to at Littleton on the 5th of Nov with BE accrediated trainer Caroline Jeanne. I have not had a clinic with her before, but have heard positive things from other people, so thought I'd give it a go since I can hack over to Littleton from the yard I am about to move to.

I have just watched an old video that I have of me riding around the BRC open 3DE champs from 2005 or 2006 I think. It was a round I remember enjoying very much and feeling like my horse had no hesitations and no near-misses. Watching it now to me it looks like I did very little, there were a lot of skinnies, I had to take a few pulls on him, but still kept coming forwards. I look a bit floppy in the saddle and sometimes a little bit in front of the movement - I think I am probably in much better balance now that I ride full time - but the horse just looks like he is doing the course all by himself.

If it works there is a link to the vid on my facebook, not sure if you have to be friends or not, but i'll try it anyway.. http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=10150110695911355
Click to expand...

thanks - he is having a little holiday after this weekend but would be interested to hear what you think of the clinic as I guess she'll be doing more. Cant see the vid :(
 
Star, Fin will be on his winter holidays from after this weekend but in the spring I'll be off out XC practice with Lucy Thompson again if ever you fancy joining me? (will probably also go out for some practice over the winter on a couple of the young'ens actually tho we wouldn't be much XC company for you as they're still doing pretty basic stuff)
 
Kelpie said:
Star, Fin will be on his winter holidays from after this weekend but in the spring I'll be off out XC practice with Lucy Thompson again if ever you fancy joining me? (will probably also go out for some practice over the winter on a couple of the young'ens actually tho we wouldn't be much XC company for you as they're still doing pretty basic stuff)
Click to expand...

yes, definitely up for that as long as can organise it round work. Work is not easy to manipulate so stuck with the same rota all the time and it interferes with my eventing ambitions lol. (it also pays for them so guess I'm stuck with it!)
 
kerilli said:
it sounds as if you are decelerating into the base of the fence, something that cost me a few v costly stops (from v honest horses) before i realised what i was doing wrong. you have to rebalance, get your new (slower or more balanced) pace, and then RIDE FORWARD to the fence in that, not slow down into the fence, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

THIS!!!

Thanks so much k, this has really helped me figure out a few things. I have a very honest horse, but we've been getting 20 penalties occasionally XC (all at the affiliated events, so I've completely ruined his record!). And each time I've done exactly that. I think I'm trying to set up, when in fact, what I've actually been doing on each occasion I've had the problem is take my leg off and decelerate into the base! BE90 isn't very big to some people, but it's plenty big enough for me right now, and can be wide.

I thought I knew what I was doing wrong, but this really clarifies it in my mind - and what I need to do to correct it. So thanks once again!!! :D
 
kerilli said:
it sounds as if you are decelerating into the base of the fence, something that cost me a few v costly stops (from v honest horses) before i realised what i was doing wrong. you have to rebalance, get your new (slower or more balanced) pace, and then RIDE FORWARD to the fence in that, not slow down into the fence, if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm think I have been very guilty of this - it takes me longer to get him back than I expect, so I end up overdoing it trying to check him (I think I might have too much leg on) and am not riding forwards by the time we get to the fence. Grrrr, typical that Bill is now injured and off work and I can't practice all the wonderful tips I've had in the last few weeks :(
 
Was going to post exactly the advice kerrili did!! :D

Was told this by a very good trainer a couple of months ago and it was like a lightbulb moment!

He had us jump this tiny little rolltop but pretend there was a huge drop behind it so to ride in a true coffin canter. As soon as I did this my horse was backing off going "what's here Mum?" because I was basically telling him there was a question coming up even though there wasn't. I think it confused him because he couldn't see a question. The next horse did exactly the same you could see the thought going through his head and this was a good XC horse out at Novice level. We then talked through. Yes set up but then you must put leg on and ride forwards to the fence. It was a little thing but has made a big difference to my XC riding!
 
You see, as more of an SJer, when I have gone xc (not this year though :( ) I find the combos are not easier exactly, but they come more naturally. It also helps that I have a tidy horse who listens to me so I don't have to gob in him the teeth for turns etc.

The fences you can see from a long way off (hedges etc on their own) are the ones I feel less confident at on occasions. Sometimes from a long way out, I know he has seen the fence, and that we will meet in on a good stride - no idea how I know that though. :o And other times from a long way out, I KNOW that we are wrong and can never work out which is best to do - I generally take a pull 10 strides out or so and we get a short one in and hit it right - always feels a bit riskier though! With the combos I sit up and go for the sj canter (my JO one, not my laxy daisical first round one :rolleyes: ) and generally it goes well. :)
 
in case i sound too chuffing sanctimonious for words on this thread, here's how i learnt (very expensively) that i was literally stopping my horse into the base of the fence:
first ever Advanced run, for me and the horse (grey in my siggy). Dynes Hall. there was a VERY serious quarry, a log on top of a mega-steep quarry face kind of thing, they ran down it but it was REALLY steep, and then a socking great table about 3 strides from the bottom. :O :O
i'd never ridden anything like it, and my mare was prone to 'Murphy moments', she'd take a fence on like a loony if I let her. i was really worried she'd do that here because the log wasn't huge, so (clear to that point, flying, having a fab round) i anchored and anchored, and anchored, and held even more, and... she very obligingly stopped at it. i'd had no leg on (durrrrr) because i thought she'd launch if i did, and i was so worried about the landing, and she did as she was told, and decelerated to nothing into the base of it. oops. ;) ;) ;)
still can't believe i rode it like such a chuffing muppet when i really should have known better by then! my trainer wasn't there but that's not much of an excuse.
so... DON'T do that, it doesn't work! ;) ;)
 
I think (although it's been a long time since we did this) we have a cruising speed, we can keep it up over all sorts of terrain, and apart from where we may need to rebalance, on turns, or poor ground etc. we stay in that rythym. That is also when I am out of the saddle, although fairly upright as Sienna is small and I need to stay in her centre of gravity.

On the good days, I only had to say steady and move my shoulders back, about 3/5 strides out and we could keep coming. Generally I say steady, she ignores me, I sit up, she steadies imperceptibly, I take a pull, she opens her mouth and throws her head in the air completely obsuring my view of the fence and before we know it we are airborn and I am thanking my lucky stars it was only a 90cm.

Actually I find it interesting that people are talking about effectively setting up for fences, which is what I aim to do, set the horse a little more on it's hocks, adjust the canter, make sure the horse is seeing the fence, and very often adjusting my position, ie sitting more in the saddle, preparing for a drop, or turn. 2 years ago, everyone evangelised about just keeping coming to fences and so long as your canter was ok you would be ok. I think that was a really damaging trend and encouraged a whole generation of riders who just kick into fences blindly.
 
siennamum said:
Actually I find it interesting that people are talking about effectively setting up for fences, which is what I aim to do, set the horse a little more on it's hocks, adjust the canter, make sure the horse is seeing the fence, and very often adjusting my position, ie sitting more in the saddle, preparing for a drop, or turn. 2 years ago, everyone evangelised about just keeping coming to fences and so long as your canter was ok you would be ok. I think that was a really damaging trend and encouraged a whole generation of riders who just kick into fences blindly.
Click to expand...

I agree. "just keep coming" only works IF the canter (or gallop) is truly balanced (and appropriate speed/power for the question). if not, it can be a recipe for disaster. having seen a vid of a horse having a full rotational at something less than 2' high, because it was horribly strung-out and unbalanced, i'm not an advocate of 'just keep coming and leave it to the horse'... (unless the horse is the sort who rebalances itself!)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top