GinaB
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I can think of more words to describe her than healthy
Right now pain in the arse is a good one!
Foods That Are Bad For Dogs
- Thread starter GinaB
- Start date
whippet
Well-Known Member
I read on a similar list online somewhere that Mushrooms are also poisonous to dogs.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Good to know, Thanks! He never gets anywhere near the pits. Just takes a bite and leaves it.
whippet
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if bananas are ok?! My boys will occasionally share one, and my sister's labs love them and get one each once a week
suzysparkle
Well-Known Member
BARF is a big debate. We tried it and it didn't work (one had anal gland problems on it, first, and last time). We feed royal canin 4300 which is a v high energy food but we have working siberian huskies. We do add the odd bit of raw meat in winter, usually chicken wings. Bones are fine, so long as they are raw.
I read an interesting point in a book about BARF. In the wild, Wolves will go for the stomach of the animal first which will contain vegetation so I guess they do know how to balance their own diet.
The collies at the farm next to me eat all manner of rubbish (whatever is leftover) and are very fit/healthy. What's worse is people who feed that tinned cr*p. Have you seen what comes out the other end?? Yuck.
I read an interesting point in a book about BARF. In the wild, Wolves will go for the stomach of the animal first which will contain vegetation so I guess they do know how to balance their own diet.
The collies at the farm next to me eat all manner of rubbish (whatever is leftover) and are very fit/healthy. What's worse is people who feed that tinned cr*p. Have you seen what comes out the other end?? Yuck.
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
Did you ask the vet how long their CANINE nutritional training in their overall study period and who taught it to them? Wouldn't mind betting it was about a day and taught by a nutritionalist from a major dog feed manufacturer oh and I bet your vet had a helpful diet already sitting on their shelf!
A growing number of enlightened vets are supporting raw feeding wholeheartedly, even though it is costing them money because teeth are clean and dogs have less problems.
I cannot find a reference in that posting mentioning if the bone was raw and indeed exactly what bone it was. I have been raw feeding for 10 years and never experienced a problem neither have others I know that have fed even longer. For a bone to splinter in that manner described, I would suggest it was at least partially cooked. I regularly feed whole chicken carcases and lamb ribs RAW so called splinter bones and all, in fact the splinter bones raw bend they do not splinter. I have always divided my bones into portions with an axe and have never seen a raw bone splinter in the manner described not even when I have half sawn then broken a large shin bone and deer bones, and they are just about as hard raw as you can get. This kind of occurrence I have never heard of before and I know a lot of raw feeders who have been feeding raw 8 years plus. I do occasionally feed cooked lamb bones and again no problems, mine leave the shards and lick out the marrow instinctively. Perhaps that is not a good idea for a greedy dog.
Raw feeding was the best thing I ever did for my dogs, taking them off pesticide infested, wheat laden, sub human grade meat flavoured, overcooked but convenient rubbish in a tin or dried in a sack, that has been coloured flavoured or preserved with carcinogens and chemicals linked to epilepsy, liver and Kidney problems allergies, behavioural problems and lowered immune response etc. Cooking is often so intense as to necessitate artificial vitamins and minerals being added back to it. (I might add that bioavailability in some prepared foods is very questionable, cooking damages amino acids and destroys natural vitamins, minerals, enzymes and antioxidants and it mutates trans fats, grains can be mouldy etc and contain Phytic Acid which may inhibit nutrient absorption, common dog food fibre can include beet or wood pulp, newspaper or peanut shells!) This is not my I idea of a safe diet! Especially when life threatening bloat is a common side effect of sack food and cancer can be a direct result of this totally alien diet for dogs. I did my research here too and pet food ingredients and additive declaration are very vague and have virtually no regulation. Also note the meat content, or lack of it in most cases, thats right bulked out by cheaper grains.
Dogs fed on a natural diet with an uncompromised immune system from the rubbish in most cooked foods are fully capable of coping with salmonella and other bugs that would kill a human. Dogs are scavengers and have a very short gut so that these bugs do not have time to take hold. That's why they can bury their food and dig it up and eat it when very skanky without any problem (well mine can and do). They eat road kill too without problems fur and all (that's a dogs natural fibre, not wheat or worse!).
A dogs stomach is very acidic and has evolved over 40 million years to dissolve the bones quickly, something it is not effective at doing to cement like cooked bones. But now certain paid nutritionists will have you believe that your dogs are protein or even more laughably chicken intolerant, believe that and you believe that after just 60 years of processed dog food availability our dogs can no longer tolerate the diet that took them 40 million years to perfect?
Ask yourself this how can an animal that hugely relies on protein as a diet I.e. a carnivore can get diabetes? Could it possibly be we are feeding an animal carbohydrates at levels nature never intended and creating a new debility for our dogs? Skin problems and even mange are also commonly seen, ever seen a mangy fox who lives out in the country? Probably because it eats raw and not cooked food containing unnatural foods from bins !
After a good bone meal mine strain to go to the loo (no sloppy sticky, stick on you shoe huge smelly logs around here) They use the contents of their Anal gland to help expel white, hard stools of calcium from those bones as their evolution intended it for. It's not there for the vet to squeeze on a regular basis for £70! My dogs teeth are VERY clean, thats another thing that happens when they eat the diet nature intended, I dont pay a vet nurse with meat flavoured toothpaste to do it under sedation!
My dogs dont itch constantly and are rarely bothered by fleas, could this be because they have no virtually no sugar in their blood, do the fleas choose to catch the next dog home whos blood is more attractive having been fed a carb and salt laden diet? Oh and by the way excess simple carbs and salt such as that found in some commercial feeds have been linked to blood and heart conditions and cancer.
It is very easy to slate a diet because of one bad experience, but I would never put anyone off feeding their dog in whatever manner they choose providing that choice is made from an informed decision using all the facts available and not just as the result of one horror story or succumbing to advertising blurb without checking it. I have done my research and am confident to say that my dogs will never be fed on commercial processed feed again.
Personally I prefer Kymythy Schultzes simple no no list
No Chocolate
No Dairy
No Grain
No Sugar
No Yeast.
A growing number of enlightened vets are supporting raw feeding wholeheartedly, even though it is costing them money because teeth are clean and dogs have less problems.
I cannot find a reference in that posting mentioning if the bone was raw and indeed exactly what bone it was. I have been raw feeding for 10 years and never experienced a problem neither have others I know that have fed even longer. For a bone to splinter in that manner described, I would suggest it was at least partially cooked. I regularly feed whole chicken carcases and lamb ribs RAW so called splinter bones and all, in fact the splinter bones raw bend they do not splinter. I have always divided my bones into portions with an axe and have never seen a raw bone splinter in the manner described not even when I have half sawn then broken a large shin bone and deer bones, and they are just about as hard raw as you can get. This kind of occurrence I have never heard of before and I know a lot of raw feeders who have been feeding raw 8 years plus. I do occasionally feed cooked lamb bones and again no problems, mine leave the shards and lick out the marrow instinctively. Perhaps that is not a good idea for a greedy dog.
Raw feeding was the best thing I ever did for my dogs, taking them off pesticide infested, wheat laden, sub human grade meat flavoured, overcooked but convenient rubbish in a tin or dried in a sack, that has been coloured flavoured or preserved with carcinogens and chemicals linked to epilepsy, liver and Kidney problems allergies, behavioural problems and lowered immune response etc. Cooking is often so intense as to necessitate artificial vitamins and minerals being added back to it. (I might add that bioavailability in some prepared foods is very questionable, cooking damages amino acids and destroys natural vitamins, minerals, enzymes and antioxidants and it mutates trans fats, grains can be mouldy etc and contain Phytic Acid which may inhibit nutrient absorption, common dog food fibre can include beet or wood pulp, newspaper or peanut shells!) This is not my I idea of a safe diet! Especially when life threatening bloat is a common side effect of sack food and cancer can be a direct result of this totally alien diet for dogs. I did my research here too and pet food ingredients and additive declaration are very vague and have virtually no regulation. Also note the meat content, or lack of it in most cases, thats right bulked out by cheaper grains.
Dogs fed on a natural diet with an uncompromised immune system from the rubbish in most cooked foods are fully capable of coping with salmonella and other bugs that would kill a human. Dogs are scavengers and have a very short gut so that these bugs do not have time to take hold. That's why they can bury their food and dig it up and eat it when very skanky without any problem (well mine can and do). They eat road kill too without problems fur and all (that's a dogs natural fibre, not wheat or worse!).
A dogs stomach is very acidic and has evolved over 40 million years to dissolve the bones quickly, something it is not effective at doing to cement like cooked bones. But now certain paid nutritionists will have you believe that your dogs are protein or even more laughably chicken intolerant, believe that and you believe that after just 60 years of processed dog food availability our dogs can no longer tolerate the diet that took them 40 million years to perfect?
Ask yourself this how can an animal that hugely relies on protein as a diet I.e. a carnivore can get diabetes? Could it possibly be we are feeding an animal carbohydrates at levels nature never intended and creating a new debility for our dogs? Skin problems and even mange are also commonly seen, ever seen a mangy fox who lives out in the country? Probably because it eats raw and not cooked food containing unnatural foods from bins !
After a good bone meal mine strain to go to the loo (no sloppy sticky, stick on you shoe huge smelly logs around here) They use the contents of their Anal gland to help expel white, hard stools of calcium from those bones as their evolution intended it for. It's not there for the vet to squeeze on a regular basis for £70! My dogs teeth are VERY clean, thats another thing that happens when they eat the diet nature intended, I dont pay a vet nurse with meat flavoured toothpaste to do it under sedation!
My dogs dont itch constantly and are rarely bothered by fleas, could this be because they have no virtually no sugar in their blood, do the fleas choose to catch the next dog home whos blood is more attractive having been fed a carb and salt laden diet? Oh and by the way excess simple carbs and salt such as that found in some commercial feeds have been linked to blood and heart conditions and cancer.
It is very easy to slate a diet because of one bad experience, but I would never put anyone off feeding their dog in whatever manner they choose providing that choice is made from an informed decision using all the facts available and not just as the result of one horror story or succumbing to advertising blurb without checking it. I have done my research and am confident to say that my dogs will never be fed on commercial processed feed again.
Personally I prefer Kymythy Schultzes simple no no list
No Chocolate
No Dairy
No Grain
No Sugar
No Yeast.
Spot_the_Risk
Well-Known Member
Well, this is getting very inense and interesting. Sounds like most people posting have strong informed viewson what's best for there dog, and so long as it works for the dog, so be it.
Personally, we feed high quality dry food, and have three very healthy dogs.
For those who may still be feeding tinned meat, check the ingredients, 4% meat and 79% moisture (water) is the norm. And as a general guide, the more advertising you see for a product, the worse it is. The law on animal feed (may just be dog and cat) states that if a food says it is for example chicken and rice, it has to have a minimum of 4% chicken and 4% rice in it. Ask yourself what the other 92% is.
If you need advice, nutritional advisors can give unbiased help, also a decent pet shop should be able to assist - if not, take your business elsewhere!
Personally, we feed high quality dry food, and have three very healthy dogs.
For those who may still be feeding tinned meat, check the ingredients, 4% meat and 79% moisture (water) is the norm. And as a general guide, the more advertising you see for a product, the worse it is. The law on animal feed (may just be dog and cat) states that if a food says it is for example chicken and rice, it has to have a minimum of 4% chicken and 4% rice in it. Ask yourself what the other 92% is.
If you need advice, nutritional advisors can give unbiased help, also a decent pet shop should be able to assist - if not, take your business elsewhere!
Fiona
Well-Known Member
My JRT loves grapes and raisins as a treat, and I thought they would be OK as are fruit and not high sugar etc.
Why are they bad????
She also likes rawhide bones (I think that's what they are). Is there a healthier alternative??
Fiona
Why are they bad????
She also likes rawhide bones (I think that's what they are). Is there a healthier alternative??
Fiona
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
Grapes are fine for dogs like everything in moderation and better that as a treat than some dog treats!!!
It is refined and complex sugars, such as those found in grains that should be avoided. My own dogs love fruit and veg and one will pick his own blackberries. Wild dogs will usually eat things like fruit in their diet when it is in season and will get some partly digested veg matter from the stomach content of their prey. Raw feeding includes fruit and veg, I feed a limited amount of in season organic fruit/veg once a week put in a blender to break down the cells so they can digest the nutrients better.
It is refined and complex sugars, such as those found in grains that should be avoided. My own dogs love fruit and veg and one will pick his own blackberries. Wild dogs will usually eat things like fruit in their diet when it is in season and will get some partly digested veg matter from the stomach content of their prey. Raw feeding includes fruit and veg, I feed a limited amount of in season organic fruit/veg once a week put in a blender to break down the cells so they can digest the nutrients better.
prose
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
My JRT loves grapes and raisins as a treat, and I thought they would be OK as are fruit and not high sugar etc.
Why are they bad????
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a page from the ASPCA's website on why grapes should be avoided.
My JRT loves grapes and raisins as a treat, and I thought they would be OK as are fruit and not high sugar etc.
Why are they bad????
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a page from the ASPCA's website on why grapes should be avoided.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
My JRT loves grapes and raisins as a treat, and I thought they would be OK as are fruit and not high sugar etc.
Why are they bad????
She also likes rawhide bones (I think that's what they are). Is there a healthier alternative??
Fiona
[/ QUOTE ]
They're poisonous Fiona!
My JRT loves grapes and raisins as a treat, and I thought they would be OK as are fruit and not high sugar etc.
Why are they bad????
She also likes rawhide bones (I think that's what they are). Is there a healthier alternative??
Fiona
[/ QUOTE ]
They're poisonous Fiona!
sloulou
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone know if bananas are ok?! My boys will occasionally share one, and my sister's labs love them and get one each once a week
[/ QUOTE ]
Bananas are good - my lab loves them. I don't given them everyday, but a couple of times a week. Supposed to be good for their coats
Also echo what SM said about grape & raisins - they are poisonous...
I have heard of a labrador that died from eating grapes
and not loads.
Does anyone know if bananas are ok?! My boys will occasionally share one, and my sister's labs love them and get one each once a week
[/ QUOTE ]
Bananas are good - my lab loves them. I don't given them everyday, but a couple of times a week. Supposed to be good for their coats
Also echo what SM said about grape & raisins - they are poisonous...
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Mine LOVE chewing carrots! Anyone who feeds raw make sure your dog has access to grass, its good for them if on BARF.
Fiona
Well-Known Member
Why so sarcastic, when I was asking a civilized question. After all - if it was so well known that grapes and raisins were dangerous for dogs, then we wouldn't need Gina's helpful list would we??
Thank you prose for the link - I will go and read it now.
Fiona
Thank you prose for the link - I will go and read it now.
Fiona
GinaB
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Grapes are fine for dogs like everything in moderation and better that as a treat than some dog treats!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid not Pocomoto, please see Prose's link in regard to this. Grapes and raisins should never be fed to dogs. I never knew of this either until recently as Beastie used to get one (once ina blue moon mind you) but wouldn't let her near them now.
Grapes are fine for dogs like everything in moderation and better that as a treat than some dog treats!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid not Pocomoto, please see Prose's link in regard to this. Grapes and raisins should never be fed to dogs. I never knew of this either until recently as Beastie used to get one (once ina blue moon mind you) but wouldn't let her near them now.
herbert
Well-Known Member
Given that most tinned dog food is 80 per cent water (expensive water) I would argue that because of the strain put on the kidneys this is a dangerous dog food. Any thoughts please.
simonepooter1
New User
pocomoto - I am a first time dog owner and have found this conversation very enlightening, could you please share with me a typical weeks diet for your dog.
Thank you
Thank you
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Suzysparkle that absolute rubbish. Where the wolves first go for depends on the pack member, the alpha will always eat the liver first, the other pack members will then eat in order of heirarchy leaving the stomach and intestines to the lowest ranking wolf as its the 5hitty bit.
Native americans learnt alot from wolves about what plants they could use as medicines. A wolf will consume 98% protein and 2% carbs in its diet, carbs consisting of berries/fruits/grasses and certain plants. Not complex such as wheat or maize e.t.c
Shaun Ellis...google him, he actually knows what he's talking about regarding wolves.
Native americans learnt alot from wolves about what plants they could use as medicines. A wolf will consume 98% protein and 2% carbs in its diet, carbs consisting of berries/fruits/grasses and certain plants. Not complex such as wheat or maize e.t.c
Shaun Ellis...google him, he actually knows what he's talking about regarding wolves.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
A growing number of enlightened vets are supporting raw feeding wholeheartedly, even though it is costing them money because teeth are clean and dogs have less problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid to say that is more likely the reason a vet would be against BARF. I always get advice off of more than one vet as I'm sorry to say that the majority think of their bank balance first.
A growing number of enlightened vets are supporting raw feeding wholeheartedly, even though it is costing them money because teeth are clean and dogs have less problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid to say that is more likely the reason a vet would be against BARF. I always get advice off of more than one vet as I'm sorry to say that the majority think of their bank balance first.
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
Sorry for tardy reply day job and all.
Basically For a medium sized dog of mine
1 x Chicken Carcass with a bit of meat on it or 4-5 Chicken wings form the basis of the diet and I would feed probably on average 4 days a week. Sometimes I buy a chicken for me, remove and roast the crown and they get the rest.
1 day I will feed mince of some kind a large packet between 2, to this I ad a couple of heaped tablespoons of blended veg, I like to use spinach quite a lot plus carrots and anything left in the fridge, fruit as well but in small quantities and blended so as to break down the cellulose and make it available to the dog, like in a prey animals stomach. I usually use an egg as liquid. I will also bung in a handful of pumpkin seeds to help remove worms, it irritates them, and a kelp tablet, my only supplement.
I get lamb bones, the big ribs 1 each if they dont have a lot of meat on them, and they will have those once or twice a week and one meal of offal, mine are not very keen on liver and kidneys but love hearts. Sometimes I will lightly brown liver so that they at least get some. The only concession I make to non human grade is here they have frozen raw tripe from the pet store and I rotate that as part of the offal meal.
Then I will feed whatever comes my way from the butcher, pork trotters (only occasionally makes them fart!) Rabbit, sometimes road kill that is not too smashed, and deer bones from a local game butcher, but they are very hard and I need to select them, the odd pheasant / partridge. The only cooked they get is a tin of pilchards in tomato sauce, sometimes they get a raw fish mixed in from the reduced counter! They will eat salmon heads as well.
They sometimes have eggs as a treat or bits of fruit and veg and the odd biscuit as a treat or freeze dried meat treats are much better. They also get lamb spine bones as a treat to keep them quiet and occasionally a beef knuckle, but as they are inclined to squabble I have to take them away when Im not about.
All the food I feed is of human grade and organic where possible, especially fruit and veg, which is probably why I have never had problems with grapes, plus I get seedless. Mine will scoff horse feed if given the chance, but I feed that as naturally as possible to so they have a mouth full of alalfa! Basically you dont need to balance the diet on a daily basis and probably mine are balanced over a week or even two. I dont stress out if I am running low on something and they get Chicken for a week as wild canines would do that, I.e. ground nesting birds for a month followed by a glut of baby rabbits.
I tend to think along the lines of what they would eat in the wild and will watch natural history progs to get ideas, I dont feed a lot of veg having observed that the alpha animals dont eat intestines or stomach and its content, that is usually left to subordinates.
What you should always bear in mind is not to mix the diets and never feed kibble with bones as the kibble moves very slowly through the dogs system and natural diet moves quickly so it can seriously impair the digestion and progress of bones and lead to bloat and blockages, its all or nothing for safety sake!
There are some good websites and books Billingshursts Give Your Dog a Bone is a good start although I dont agree with all his suggestions and here is a couple for the purist http://home.earthlink.net/~affenbar/bookpage.html
http://members.aol.com/Brushbow/src/speciesmenu.htm
Basically For a medium sized dog of mine
1 x Chicken Carcass with a bit of meat on it or 4-5 Chicken wings form the basis of the diet and I would feed probably on average 4 days a week. Sometimes I buy a chicken for me, remove and roast the crown and they get the rest.
1 day I will feed mince of some kind a large packet between 2, to this I ad a couple of heaped tablespoons of blended veg, I like to use spinach quite a lot plus carrots and anything left in the fridge, fruit as well but in small quantities and blended so as to break down the cellulose and make it available to the dog, like in a prey animals stomach. I usually use an egg as liquid. I will also bung in a handful of pumpkin seeds to help remove worms, it irritates them, and a kelp tablet, my only supplement.
I get lamb bones, the big ribs 1 each if they dont have a lot of meat on them, and they will have those once or twice a week and one meal of offal, mine are not very keen on liver and kidneys but love hearts. Sometimes I will lightly brown liver so that they at least get some. The only concession I make to non human grade is here they have frozen raw tripe from the pet store and I rotate that as part of the offal meal.
Then I will feed whatever comes my way from the butcher, pork trotters (only occasionally makes them fart!) Rabbit, sometimes road kill that is not too smashed, and deer bones from a local game butcher, but they are very hard and I need to select them, the odd pheasant / partridge. The only cooked they get is a tin of pilchards in tomato sauce, sometimes they get a raw fish mixed in from the reduced counter! They will eat salmon heads as well.
They sometimes have eggs as a treat or bits of fruit and veg and the odd biscuit as a treat or freeze dried meat treats are much better. They also get lamb spine bones as a treat to keep them quiet and occasionally a beef knuckle, but as they are inclined to squabble I have to take them away when Im not about.
All the food I feed is of human grade and organic where possible, especially fruit and veg, which is probably why I have never had problems with grapes, plus I get seedless. Mine will scoff horse feed if given the chance, but I feed that as naturally as possible to so they have a mouth full of alalfa! Basically you dont need to balance the diet on a daily basis and probably mine are balanced over a week or even two. I dont stress out if I am running low on something and they get Chicken for a week as wild canines would do that, I.e. ground nesting birds for a month followed by a glut of baby rabbits.
I tend to think along the lines of what they would eat in the wild and will watch natural history progs to get ideas, I dont feed a lot of veg having observed that the alpha animals dont eat intestines or stomach and its content, that is usually left to subordinates.
What you should always bear in mind is not to mix the diets and never feed kibble with bones as the kibble moves very slowly through the dogs system and natural diet moves quickly so it can seriously impair the digestion and progress of bones and lead to bloat and blockages, its all or nothing for safety sake!
There are some good websites and books Billingshursts Give Your Dog a Bone is a good start although I dont agree with all his suggestions and here is a couple for the purist http://home.earthlink.net/~affenbar/bookpage.html
http://members.aol.com/Brushbow/src/speciesmenu.htm
Oneofthepack
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Given that most tinned dog food is 80 per cent water (expensive water) I would argue that because of the strain put on the kidneys this is a dangerous dog food. Any thoughts please.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I'm right in saying that almost all food is largely water, including raw meat and bones, so to find tinned meat has 80% wouldn't surprise me.
I thought garlic was good for their digestion so does anyone know what quantities of garlic would be bad? I make a sardine cake (yummy!) with 3 cloves of crushed garlic and it lasts 3 dogs a week. Would this be too much and is it even beneficial or better just to leave it out altogether?
Given that most tinned dog food is 80 per cent water (expensive water) I would argue that because of the strain put on the kidneys this is a dangerous dog food. Any thoughts please.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I'm right in saying that almost all food is largely water, including raw meat and bones, so to find tinned meat has 80% wouldn't surprise me.
I thought garlic was good for their digestion so does anyone know what quantities of garlic would be bad? I make a sardine cake (yummy!) with 3 cloves of crushed garlic and it lasts 3 dogs a week. Would this be too much and is it even beneficial or better just to leave it out altogether?
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Given that most tinned dog food is 80 per cent water (expensive water) I would argue that because of the strain put on the kidneys this is a dangerous dog food. Any thoughts please.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's the water content that is the real problem with most tinned feeds its how it is prepared and what is added to it. There is a real horror story book if you have the stomach to read it! Food your pets die for by Ann N. Martin, (although to me she lets the book down by cooking her own meals instead of going raw, but hey its a step in the right direction and she gives some recipes). Though purists think it's raw or nothing I personally would rather people cooked their own than remained on commercial feeds, preferably using it as a stepping stone.
Most tinned meat is derived from meat cooked at high temperatures over a long period. By the time the huge vats are cooled it is actually grey in colour with little feed value, so in goes colorants, which are not under any form of control so many are in fact carcinogens (cancer causers). Also because it has been cooked like grandmas cabbage it has no vitamins left so artificial cheap ones are added, which are not necessarily actually available to the animal, i.e. they cannot be absorbed. There are very few regulations as to health implications on pet food. They also poor in a load of overcooked gelatine to bind the pieces of coloured meat, if you cut into the chunks you will see what I mean!
I am not sure about Europe but in the US there are very few restrictions on what goes into dog food and euthanized by injection animals complete with their barbiturate load , which does not break down with heat, end up in the tins!
On the flip side most kibble feeds are largely bulked up by cereals which are cheap and can be made cheaper by buying up cereals too laden with pesticides to be of Human grade. I think as little as 3% meat content is required and that does not have to be meat as such but can comprise of ground hooves, chicken heads and feet etc brains and offal. It also is overly cooked and has vitamins added back into it. The kibble can cause bloat as it moves very slowly through a carnivores digestive system swelling as it goes and sucking up all the digestive juices which nature designed to quickly break down bones and skin which move through very quickly, this system evolved to avoid food poisoning from the carrion eaten which is often quite rank! It means that in a healthy gut that salmonella and such have no time to linger and take hold.
Re the garlic, bananas etc I think it is like most things in life a little in moderation for a dog with a healthy diet, mine will eat garlic from horse feed in very small amounts but I dont add it to their feed as a rule.
Given that most tinned dog food is 80 per cent water (expensive water) I would argue that because of the strain put on the kidneys this is a dangerous dog food. Any thoughts please.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's the water content that is the real problem with most tinned feeds its how it is prepared and what is added to it. There is a real horror story book if you have the stomach to read it! Food your pets die for by Ann N. Martin, (although to me she lets the book down by cooking her own meals instead of going raw, but hey its a step in the right direction and she gives some recipes). Though purists think it's raw or nothing I personally would rather people cooked their own than remained on commercial feeds, preferably using it as a stepping stone.
Most tinned meat is derived from meat cooked at high temperatures over a long period. By the time the huge vats are cooled it is actually grey in colour with little feed value, so in goes colorants, which are not under any form of control so many are in fact carcinogens (cancer causers). Also because it has been cooked like grandmas cabbage it has no vitamins left so artificial cheap ones are added, which are not necessarily actually available to the animal, i.e. they cannot be absorbed. There are very few regulations as to health implications on pet food. They also poor in a load of overcooked gelatine to bind the pieces of coloured meat, if you cut into the chunks you will see what I mean!
I am not sure about Europe but in the US there are very few restrictions on what goes into dog food and euthanized by injection animals complete with their barbiturate load , which does not break down with heat, end up in the tins!
On the flip side most kibble feeds are largely bulked up by cereals which are cheap and can be made cheaper by buying up cereals too laden with pesticides to be of Human grade. I think as little as 3% meat content is required and that does not have to be meat as such but can comprise of ground hooves, chicken heads and feet etc brains and offal. It also is overly cooked and has vitamins added back into it. The kibble can cause bloat as it moves very slowly through a carnivores digestive system swelling as it goes and sucking up all the digestive juices which nature designed to quickly break down bones and skin which move through very quickly, this system evolved to avoid food poisoning from the carrion eaten which is often quite rank! It means that in a healthy gut that salmonella and such have no time to linger and take hold.
Re the garlic, bananas etc I think it is like most things in life a little in moderation for a dog with a healthy diet, mine will eat garlic from horse feed in very small amounts but I dont add it to their feed as a rule.
Bedlam
Well-Known Member
Did you now that if rabbits eat peach leaves they suffer from cyanide poisoning?
My dogs love rabbits.
My dogs love rabbits.
lucylemon
Well-Known Member
grapes are harmful to dogs too aparantly :O
this topic on dogpages explains alot of other things too.
http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=156473
this topic on dogpages explains alot of other things too.
http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=156473
pinkcatkin
Well-Known Member
Oh dear, my labradors should have died about a hundred times each judging by your list!
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
Hmm Had a look at the alarmist list will say again I feed most things in moderation that a dog would come across in the wild and have never seen any ill effects. But my dogs have a healthy raw natural diet and a good immune system as a result. I would say that you would have to feed an exess of most things on that list to cause extreme reactions as described.
I would ask however how can any food be too high in protein for a carnivore? I would desist from feeding cat food because of the Cr*p that is in it!
Fish would have been a staple of dogs for thousands of years especially so for Nordic origin breeds, mine are fed them regularly so I certainly would not discourage their use as part of a species appropriate diet.
I would ask however how can any food be too high in protein for a carnivore? I would desist from feeding cat food because of the Cr*p that is in it!
Fish would have been a staple of dogs for thousands of years especially so for Nordic origin breeds, mine are fed them regularly so I certainly would not discourage their use as part of a species appropriate diet.
SunshineTallulah
Well-Known Member
Never feed any cooked bones! Cooking them makes them brittle and prone to splintering.
As a chum on another forum I use explains:
RAW meaty bones (eg chicken wings/drumsticks) are soft and pliable, they are simply crunched up and swallowed. Dogs teeth were designed to rip, tear and devour carcasses, they do not possess the flat molars needed to chew.
What are the advantages when feeding RAW? Healthy, happy dogs! No nasty doggy odour, decreased waste production, raw fed dogs stools are small, hard and significantly less smelly. The ripping and tearing of raw food help to develop dogs muscles, the crunching of the raw meaty bones naturally cleans dogs teeth. Raw fed dogs have more constant energy levels as opposed to the carb highs dogs fed on commercial food often experience. Dogs eating a raw diet rarely suffer from food allergies. Raw fed dogs have beautiful shiny coats, clean bright eyes and a strong physique. Dogs enjoy their food so much more when eating raw, how would you like to eat the same boring food everyday? I could go on and on, I have never seen a RAW fed dog who wasnt in exceptional health!
The main problem with feeding raw meat is the risk of Neospora Caninum which can be fatal; this risk can be avoided by freezing raw meat first.
My puppy loves bananas and has no ill effects from them. Other good food for dogs, pilchards/sardines/mackerel in tom sauce once a week!
I would also suggest that kibble is made up of a lot of cereal which dogs can not digest properly.
Good foods for dogs if you dont like the idea of raw:
Naturediet
NatureMenu
Orijien - dry food from Zooplus
My cats are on Natures Menu - no rubbish in that!
Dogs love garlic - some BARFERs feed a clove a day.
As a chum on another forum I use explains:
RAW meaty bones (eg chicken wings/drumsticks) are soft and pliable, they are simply crunched up and swallowed. Dogs teeth were designed to rip, tear and devour carcasses, they do not possess the flat molars needed to chew.
What are the advantages when feeding RAW? Healthy, happy dogs! No nasty doggy odour, decreased waste production, raw fed dogs stools are small, hard and significantly less smelly. The ripping and tearing of raw food help to develop dogs muscles, the crunching of the raw meaty bones naturally cleans dogs teeth. Raw fed dogs have more constant energy levels as opposed to the carb highs dogs fed on commercial food often experience. Dogs eating a raw diet rarely suffer from food allergies. Raw fed dogs have beautiful shiny coats, clean bright eyes and a strong physique. Dogs enjoy their food so much more when eating raw, how would you like to eat the same boring food everyday? I could go on and on, I have never seen a RAW fed dog who wasnt in exceptional health!
The main problem with feeding raw meat is the risk of Neospora Caninum which can be fatal; this risk can be avoided by freezing raw meat first.
My puppy loves bananas and has no ill effects from them. Other good food for dogs, pilchards/sardines/mackerel in tom sauce once a week!
I would also suggest that kibble is made up of a lot of cereal which dogs can not digest properly.
Good foods for dogs if you dont like the idea of raw:
Naturediet
NatureMenu
Orijien - dry food from Zooplus
My cats are on Natures Menu - no rubbish in that!
Dogs love garlic - some BARFERs feed a clove a day.
pocomoto
Well-Known Member
Good foods for dogs if you dont like the idea of raw
[ QUOTE ]
Never feed any cooked bones!
Good foods for dogs if you dont like the idea of raw:
Naturediet
NatureMenu
Orijien - dry food from Zooplus
[/ QUOTE ]
Watch the content even in feeds like these, whilst the meat content is higher you need to know what quality it is and from what source, what the other x% content is and the amount of cooking it receives and if that is done at high temperatures.
For instance in one of the breakdowns of the meat products of the above there is an interesting comment various sugars . In one kibble section they list the content of the complete dry food as Wheatflour min 76%. In another the bulk agent is brown rice, another form of rich carbohydrate (sugar), Brown sounds good though doesnt it? Another interesting ingredient is Natural Ground Bone, presumably cooked and therefore not of good nutritional content, its just like feeding ground cement and effectively another form of bulk.
I think probably the Orijen is the nearest to a natural diet with quality ingredients not overcooked, but it is cooked and probably very expensive, I pay on average £15 to feed two medium sized dogs a raw species appropriate diet for just over a month, a breeder I know feeds 8 on an average of £2 per day.
One of the above also claims that its diet has been adapted to allow dogs to be fed more frequently without associated weight gain. Personally I do not agree with this, as a carnivore the dog is designed to eat less frequently because it does not rely on sugar for energy such as an omnivore or herbivore. A carnivore cannot rely on sugar as its digestive system has bypassed this as a viable food source, shortening and adapting its digestive tract to deal with lees frequent big meals of protein, Wild dogs effectively eat raw Atkins induction diet so successful in obese humans!
Most carnivorous hunts are unsuccessful, so on catching a prey item dogs binge and its not a good idea to run fast straight away on a full stomach.
Once a day is plenty of feeding for a dog, some raw feeders even advocate a starvation day every now and again but personally I dont. I feed after evening exercise give or take a few treats in the day.
A more cost effective alternative to raw would be to home make their food then you know the content, how long it was cooked for, what temperature, what grade the food is etc, there are lots of recipes on the internet if that is the route you choose to take. But then why not just give it too them and bypass the prep and cooking?
Cats are difficult on raw as they can be fussy, but years ago I persuaded a friend with a house cat to try raw, the expensive monthly vet visits for skin problems and diabetes stopped almost straight away and she had to fit a fridge lock or risk loosing all the raw meat in there, it also ate small Chicken wings. That cat is now 19 years old and has only been to the vet for vaccinations!!! I suppose you could feed frozen mice or rats from the pet store if you really wanted to go to the extreme!!!
Its of course up to the individual owner but Id like to think people reading this post will look closer and ask more questions of their feed of choice.
[ QUOTE ]
Never feed any cooked bones!
Good foods for dogs if you dont like the idea of raw:
Naturediet
NatureMenu
Orijien - dry food from Zooplus
[/ QUOTE ]
Watch the content even in feeds like these, whilst the meat content is higher you need to know what quality it is and from what source, what the other x% content is and the amount of cooking it receives and if that is done at high temperatures.
For instance in one of the breakdowns of the meat products of the above there is an interesting comment various sugars . In one kibble section they list the content of the complete dry food as Wheatflour min 76%. In another the bulk agent is brown rice, another form of rich carbohydrate (sugar), Brown sounds good though doesnt it? Another interesting ingredient is Natural Ground Bone, presumably cooked and therefore not of good nutritional content, its just like feeding ground cement and effectively another form of bulk.
I think probably the Orijen is the nearest to a natural diet with quality ingredients not overcooked, but it is cooked and probably very expensive, I pay on average £15 to feed two medium sized dogs a raw species appropriate diet for just over a month, a breeder I know feeds 8 on an average of £2 per day.
One of the above also claims that its diet has been adapted to allow dogs to be fed more frequently without associated weight gain. Personally I do not agree with this, as a carnivore the dog is designed to eat less frequently because it does not rely on sugar for energy such as an omnivore or herbivore. A carnivore cannot rely on sugar as its digestive system has bypassed this as a viable food source, shortening and adapting its digestive tract to deal with lees frequent big meals of protein, Wild dogs effectively eat raw Atkins induction diet so successful in obese humans!
Most carnivorous hunts are unsuccessful, so on catching a prey item dogs binge and its not a good idea to run fast straight away on a full stomach.
Once a day is plenty of feeding for a dog, some raw feeders even advocate a starvation day every now and again but personally I dont. I feed after evening exercise give or take a few treats in the day.
A more cost effective alternative to raw would be to home make their food then you know the content, how long it was cooked for, what temperature, what grade the food is etc, there are lots of recipes on the internet if that is the route you choose to take. But then why not just give it too them and bypass the prep and cooking?
Cats are difficult on raw as they can be fussy, but years ago I persuaded a friend with a house cat to try raw, the expensive monthly vet visits for skin problems and diabetes stopped almost straight away and she had to fit a fridge lock or risk loosing all the raw meat in there, it also ate small Chicken wings. That cat is now 19 years old and has only been to the vet for vaccinations!!! I suppose you could feed frozen mice or rats from the pet store if you really wanted to go to the extreme!!!
Its of course up to the individual owner but Id like to think people reading this post will look closer and ask more questions of their feed of choice.
piebaldsparkle
Well-Known Member
Oh my..........my JRT has had a few fits, which I suspected may have been down to him stealing/finding chocolate up the yard, but now I suspect it more likely to be due to him stealing my coffee/tea (his little pointy nose fits nicely in a mug)!!!
Magicmillbrook
Well-Known Member
My dog has a lovely raw bone every saturday, I also feed her raw tripe/chicken/beef mince with her regualr dog biscuits. She also has table scraps mixed in occasionaly. Dogs would be scavenging and hunting in the wild and we should feed to mimic this.
It would be interesting to hear the staistics on how many dogs actualy die from bone related accidents, I bet its no where near as many as those who die from obesity from having 'processed' dogs food, or road accidents, or from getting wood stuck in their throats from catching sticks etc.
It would be interesting to hear the staistics on how many dogs actualy die from bone related accidents, I bet its no where near as many as those who die from obesity from having 'processed' dogs food, or road accidents, or from getting wood stuck in their throats from catching sticks etc.