For all you Gypsy haters...

Serenity087

Serenity087

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Reposted due to the title apparently breaching terms and conditions... apparently Admin can't just edit these things...

statistics from 2009:
1 horse died at Appleby Horse fair
5 horses died at the Grand National

A major source of issue at Appleby is the forcing of horses into the River Eden
Only 17 out of 40 horses were successfully forced around the 2009 Grand National Circuit

People complain about Gypsy horses left tethered or abandoned
Yet every year the racing industry produces thousands of useless horses that go for slaughter or end up neglected

Gypsy horses are trotted on the streets, which is apparently cruel and damages their legs
Yet most of the National fatalities over the years are broken legs.

You wanna prove you're not racist - Ban the Grand National as well as calling for a ban on Appleby.



From earlier - apparently you can't force horses to run races - so how can you force them to swim? Either both are force, or neither are force, horses don't see the difference like we do.

The statistics are BOTH from animal aid website - so either they're both right or they're both wrong.

This is a post intended to make you think about hypocrasy, I'm neither flying a flag for banning racing nor flying a flag for Appleby. It's intended to spark discussion.
 
I thought you had been banned!

Just a slap on the wrists eh?

By the way, how long did you work in racing yards?

Just curious....
 
I mean I know I should be working, but really, shouldn't you be working/at school/uni/be outside playing and have better things to do with your time?! :rolleyes:

And I'm not normally one to criticise spelling, but its the second time you've posted this, and you've stil spelt hypocrisy wrong..... :D

Are you this antagonistic in real life? You must be a pain to go for a quiet drink with.....! :D
 
Katt said:
Nothing like flogging a dead horse hey...... 'scuse the pun!!!!
Click to expand...

Do you work in the racing industry? Because it is only there that dead horses are flogged. All of them. There isn't a single racing TB alive that isn't flogged. Gypsy horses on the other hand never have a finger raised to them. Because Gypsies / the travelling community are all saints. It is the vets / owners / hard wroking grooms within the racing industry that should be being watched for cruelty.... don't you agree Harper_G???

*Please take this post with the heavy dose of sarcasm intended*
 
And all the unrecorded breakdowns and injuries of horses out hunting too...

Or early-retirement ages of competition horses....

I think it's easy to fire hatred and be anti about a sole thing that's in the media and press such a lot or the main stream 'events' that only happen annually so get much more focused coverage on them due to this.

Fact is,official or not, is there's the good press and the bad press in everything. For everything in general: Gypsy or non-gypsy, Appleby Fair or racing, UK or abroad......just because a proportion of bad things happen, doesn't mean ALL should be pre-judged and convicted of hatred and bad mouthing/opinions.

Bad mouth and 'convict' the select ones who are actually guilty of the true cruelty, not the whole community.

It would be like them saying all of our community carry guns and knives, create gang violence and theive off benefits.... Now I know this is true for a proportion of people in the UK,figures tell you all of that....but it surely isn't the whole of our community is it!

Just because they're seen as a Gypsy community [or travellers, or whatever name you wish to call them], just remember, like OUR community, they have the good members and the bad members.


Call me naive...I just like to see the good and bad points of view for most things ;)
 
OK.

Good and bad in all groups of people.

Not cool to judge people on the basis of race, colour, religion, age, gender, accent, social class, etc etc etc.

Judging people on their own merits, as individuals, good.

Horse abusers and horse lovers to be found in people who live in hosues, caravans, tents, tepees, and hobbit holes.

That's absolutely the last time I'm typing all that lot out...
 
Did I miss a post earlier?

Pmsl. I wouldn't have bothered if I'd known it had already been done.

I need a cuppa in my life....teeeea anyone?:)
 
Goodo! Some people are finally getting the hang of such big words as "discussion" "debate" and "differences of opinion"

RosieFronFelen, you asked me to give you a one word answer, so I did. You specifically asked for no explination, so that's what you got.
And the answer surprised you.

And yes, I've done bucketloads in 23 years. Because I've been working since I was 12. Sometimes for a fortnight, sometimes for a month, sometimes for a whole year. I don't always get paid, but I do the work for the experience.

Sorry that I like to ensure I have experienced a bit of everything in life.
 
I only like to 'debate' 'differences of opinion' when both parties are presented with accurate facts. Your facts and figures in OP are not reliable or accurate so forgive me, but you are proliferating myths about the 'cruelty' of the racing industry which are simply false. I'm not denying that there are horses PTS due to racing related injuries every year - I have been there - BUT to say that the level of cruelty within the travelling community is low in comparisom (which your figures do state!) is a false representation as there is no regulatory body for these people whereas there is for racing
 
Not really relevant to the racing v appleby debate. But on Friday at 10am we had an old gypsy dude come onto our farm leading a little black cob. He tied it up to our trailer and said that the pony had escaped and he was waiting for the lad to come with the trailer to pick it up. Lad came with trailer and old gypsy dude got in the van and legged it minus the pony. He didn't come back until 8.30pm. Pony was left tied to the trailer in what ended up 80 degrees with no water or anything. I did move the pony and tethered it in our croft in the shade with water. Gypsy dude rocked back up demanded where pony was, got pony, battered it till it went into the trailer and went. No thank you - nothing.

On the other hand during winter young gypsy dude had driven down from Newcastle in all the snow for a bale of hay for his colt because he couldn't get any up north and a relative had told him about us and he was worried about his little horse losing condition.

Just showing that there is good and bad. Unfortunately I have to say (my experience only)it seems that the bad massively outweigh the good.
 
studentvet said:
I only like to 'debate' 'differences of opinion' when both parties are presented with accurate facts. Your facts and figures in OP are not reliable or accurate so forgive me, but you are proliferating myths about the 'cruelty' of the racing industry which are simply false. I'm not denying that there are horses PTS due to racing related injuries every year - I have been there - BUT to say that the level of cruelty within the travelling community is low in comparisom (which your figures do state!) is a false representation as there is no regulatory body for these people whereas there is for racing
Click to expand...

Ditto!

Maybe one thing HG hasn't learned in all her years of experience is how to start a balanced debate ;)
 
but surely thats a debate, SV?

The source, Animal Aid, does NOT support Appleby and used the figure of 1 dead animal as cause to ban it. Surely it would be a misrepresentative number more if it had come from a group supporting the fair.

I accept that horses are often mistreated "under the radar" - but then it goes on every day with horses from all communities and walks of life and that will, inevitably, include racehorses. Racehorse suffering is only well documented at the tracks, where it's in the public eye.

Like the Gypsy Community, the Racing industry will pull ranks if they suspect someone is investigating the true cost of the sport!!
 
I wonder what some of you would do if the boot was on the other foot? This poster is obviously passionate about her beliefs and is quite within her rights to start a debate. Some of you talk about her being imflammatory in her posts elsewhere, some of you are just being trolls, out to gauge another passionate reaction from her.

Either grow up and accept her opinion is different to yours, or just ignore what she posts. I for one, fully agree with what she says. It's either cruelty for all, or nothing. Cruelty comes in many forms, so I suggest some of you accept this with good grace or find something more intelligent to reply with.
 
Stencilface said:
Ditto!

Maybe one thing HG hasn't learned in all her years of experience is how to start a balanced debate ;)
Click to expand...

AS-level in critical thinking plus three years in college debating society.

The facts are intentionally distorted due to the nature of posts on this forum being generally the opposite extreme view.

A debate is followed by reasoned facts, however distorted, an argument is an opinion because one says so.
 
The thing is....neither Appleby or Aintree....and all places like them....will ever be banned because it's tradition, and us Brits, we love our traditions don't we?

Good Old British Traditions, like bangers and mash, dancing round the maypole, sending small children up chimneys and sticking pins in Aunt Ethel we she passes out at Christmas, we love them, they are handed down through the generations and steeped in history. Likewise gypsy horse fairs, horse racing and all point of the equestrian compass in between, the traditions of **** and princes will be with us as long as the horse is. And woe betide anyone who tries to stop them, whether it's the EU, the IRA, the RSPCA, the BBC, Mrs Pankhurst or a bunch of meddling fruitloops wearing 'Hug my Bunny' teeshirts. They'll swiftly be ejected from the premises with a smack in the eye or a swift jab with a shooting stick. Because it's TRADITION, see, it's practically a human right to drink copious amount of beer and sit on a horse in a river along with 15 of your mates doing an Uncle Tom Cobbeley re-enactment, or get a horse that's practically a foal to run at great distance at top speed, beating it when it's closer to the winning post for the gratification of the great British sporting public.....
 
Harper_Gal said:
AS-level in critical thinking plus three years in college debating society.

The facts are intentionally distorted due to the nature of posts on this forum being generally the opposite extreme view.

A debate is followed by reasoned facts, however distorted, an argument is an opinion because one says so.
Click to expand...


Ok, so you have some 'qualifications' (although an AS in critical thinking - school really has got easier ;) ) but honestly, do you have friends you can have nice days out with, without arguing, or debating?! :confused:
 
DragonSlayer said:
I wonder what some of you would do if the boot was on the other foot? This poster is obviously passionate about her beliefs and is quite within her rights to start a debate. Some of you talk about her being imflammatory in her posts elsewhere, some of you are just being trolls, out to gauge another passionate reaction from her.

Either grow up and accept her opinion is different to yours, or just ignore what she posts. I for one, fully agree with what she says. It's either cruelty for all, or nothing. Cruelty comes in many forms, so I suggest some of you accept this with good grace or find something more intelligent to reply with.
Click to expand...

Finally! This thread is moving in the direction it was supposed to!

As it does happen, my opinions do not match the origional post entirely. Like I have said, many times now (and am still being ignored!!) the OP is extreme to balance the opposite views of those on the forum!

I don't condone cruelty to Gypsy horses. Never have, never will! I'm asking people to think about how they come across.
 
Harper_Gal said:
Reposted due to the title apparently breaching terms and conditions... apparently Admin can't just edit these things...

statistics from 2009:
1 horse died at Appleby Horse fair - thats the 'official' figure
5 horses died at the Grand National Actually I am not a fan of this either

A major source of issue at Appleby is the forcing of horses into the River Eden
Only 17 out of 40 horses were successfully forced around the 2009 Grand National CircuitHow many horses were forced into the river? I find it very hard to believe that you could 'force' a racehorse around a track - they are bred for racing afterall, unlike the poor swimming horses

People complain about Gypsy horses left tethered or abandoned
Yet every year the racing industry produces thousands of useless horses that go for slaughter or end up neglected
Sorry I would much rather a quick humane death than being left by the roadside with no food or water
Gypsy horses are trotted on the streets, which is apparently cruel and damages their legs It dam well is bad for their legs
Yet most of the National fatalities over the years are broken legs.don't particularly like this either

You wanna prove you're not racist - Ban the Grand National as well as calling for a ban on Appleby.sorry - stupid argument



From earlier - apparently you can't force horses to run races - so how can you force them to swim? Either both are force, or neither are force, horses don't see the difference like we do.Oh come onnnnnnn! Racehorses love to gallop - gypsy cobs do not particularly like to swim

The statistics are BOTH from animal aid website - so either they're both right or they're both wrong. Hmmmm Animal Aid eh


This is a post intended to make you think about hypocrasy, I'm neither flying a flag for banning racing nor flying a flag for Appleby. It's intended to spark discussion.
Click to expand...





Bundle, you have obviously never had any real dealings with either the racing of the gypsy fraternities otherwise you would not be making this ludicrous and uninformed argument.

You seem to have a little bit of a bee in your bonnet regarding gypsies. I am certain that in your very short life you have not had any real dealings, OK maybe you met a couple of the good ones (and there ARE some very good ones), however, the majority of these so called gypsies are not gypsies at all, they are TRAVELLERS/IRISH TINKERS and there is a world of difference. If you, like so many others on here had lost beloved pets to these people, or had come across a half starved pony tethered to the side of the road, I think you would think differently. As it is you come across as uninformed and naive.

If, as you state, you have worked in the racing industry, you would know that race horses have the most pampered life of all horses. What yard did you work in to make you think differently?
 
I have no problem with proper gypsies and true Romani as the majority care about their animals

I wouldn't ban Stow or Appleby and disappointed Andoversford fair no long exists where everyone got to mix and not quite as scary as Stow!

I do have an issue with the new type of traveller, who sees fit to know where everything is on farms and helps themselves to whatever they want. They are not Romani and have no honour. Often families embedded in one area and these types often don't have animals, unless freshly 'acquired'.

About time the Gypsy council pulled ranks and exposed these people giving them all a bad name, but there is still a stick together attitude, so they won't expose them.
 
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