Forever fat cob

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motherof2beasts!

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Yet again my boy got a good fat shaming at his annual health check. He is 14 and I’ve owned him 3 years he’s 15.2hh.

His hay is soaked for over 8 hours, then rinsed. He has a small handful of TB healthy herbal chaff a day with his antihistamines, marigold and cleavers and a skin and respiration supplement oh and TB healthy herbal chaff. He field shares with another chubby cob and they are strip grazed, still on a narrow corridor which hasn’t been rested and we move a post or 2 every couple of days (new grass been rested a year and is standing hay). He gets about 8kg of hay soaked for 8 hours when in overnight and demolished the lot. I leave a small trug of top chop zero. He’s in from 5-6.30 when he starts coming in overnight from tomorrow. I ride 3/5 times a week, have a weekly lesson and very hilly hacks. Admittedly it’s not hard hard work , trotting up hills etc but not really canter /gallop opportunities near us. Usually between 3-8 miles, longer ones at weekend.

I really don’t want to muzzle him as he has ashtma. Should I cut his hay down more even though it’s really soaked and rinsed?

He’s fully clipped with rain sheet or 50 gram max.

I don’t want him standing with nothing from 10pm but equally don’t want him to be fat.

Picture of said fatty never had a good doer before it is so hard . My dog was diagnosed with heart failure today so the fat shaming just added insult to injury
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Yes you can soak straw too but it wouldn’t really need it, a dunk to get the dust off will suffice.

Exercise really is the key here, so even on days you don’t ride get him lunging or free schooling.

But for what it’s worth, he’s not morbidly obese and the weather has been so mild there is no shivering to be had. When the temp drops I think you’ll see a difference.
 
Equi said:
Yes you can soak straw too but it wouldn’t really need it, a dunk to get the dust off will suffice.

Exercise really is the key here, so even on days you don’t ride get him lunging or free schooling.

But for what it’s worth, he’s not morbidly obese and the weather has been so mild there is no shivering to be had. When the temp drops I think you’ll see a difference.
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Yes I think I was the only one who wished the temp had stayed lower 🙈. Yes I was quite meh about the fat shaming, I’m under no illusions I know he’s fat, but he’s gone from a 52 girth to 46. Vet gave him 8/9 body score but couldn’t get near him to touch him. Never had this vet before and Apollo was terrified of him , which was odd. My other vet coming in 2 months so hoping she gives him a 7 🙈
 
Personally, i’d not soak the hay for 8hrs - that long will also leach out important vits and mins (that help regulate metabolism) aswell as sugar. To reduce sugar in hay 1-2hrs soaking is usually enough. I used to do just 1 hour and have reddish sugary water.

I would quit the TB chaff and top chop zero. The chaff is questionable as to what grasses are actually in there, chamomile is a sedative unnecessary for horses, and the linseed coating is likely rancid and causing oxidative stress. Most oils go rancid quickly when exposed to air, linseed oil too. Unless the chaff bag is vacuum-packed tight like haylage, i wouldnt use any oil coated chaff to feed as the oil is likely rancid causing oxidative stress in the body, which means feeding more antioxidants.

(Antioxidants are found in longer green grass but unrested/starvation/over-grazed paddocks are so undernourished that cannot be relied-upon as a quality source of these nutrients)

Top chop zero confirmed to me in writing upon enquiring about glyphosate use on their straw that it is not organic and if i wanted to ensure to be feeding straw without glyphosate residue i should source another product elsewhere, than use theirs.
Glyphosate and insulin resistance causation has been proven in studies. If feeding straw i’d personally make sure it’s organic. I read too often folk with EMS horses feeding top chop products.
However, antioxidants of vitamin C and E are shown in study to improve the insulin resistance caused by eating glyphosate foods, but it isnt the answer fully, as its a bandaid solution.

8kg of hay for a 15hh horse is about right - if on short strip-grazed minimal grazing and no other feeds. Im surprised he’s not on more hay, considering he’s ridden weekly. I’d stick with that personally, lightly soaked so its retaining some nutrition.

To the hay quota, I’d add a multi-vit/min balancer like powdered forage plus, with some emerald green grass nuts so you have a feed for the antihistamines etc to go in. (i spoke to EG and got the grasses confirmed thats in their products so am satisfied theyre ok for grass pellets and chaff.) Then with more nutrition left in the hay and with added nutrients from forageplus balancer, he’ll be getting a good supply/array of nutrients that support healthier metabolism.

In essence id remove the questionable feeds that easily could be causing issues and keep it simple with good hay and nutrients.



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Well done for listening to your vet and wanting to do something about it.

He is getting too much food, simple as or he wouldn’t be fat.

I would give 4kg of hay, he’s eating during the day in the field. Cut the topchop zero completely, and up the work. Get on him and get him trotting for hours.

He will need to be under some sort of hardship/calorie deficit or he won’t lose weight. Once he does lose weight however, you’ll likely find he won’t be so obsessed with food. In my experience, the fatter they get the hungrier they get, for some reason.

Don’t worry about him being without food for a few hours overnight. They don’t stand in front of food 24/7 in the wild. The idea of them needing a constant supply of plentiful forage is a) very new and b) not well-evidenced.

Also, use winter to your advantage. Fully clip and put in a 50g rug.

Good luck and I hope some of this is helpful.
 
PurBee said:
Personally, i’d not soak the hay for 8hrs - that long will also leach out important vits and mins (that help regulate metabolism) aswell as sugar. To reduce sugar in hay 1-2hrs soaking is usually enough. I used to do just 1 hour and have reddish sugary water.

I would quit the TB chaff and top chop zero. The chaff is questionable as to what grasses are actually in there, chamomile is a sedative unnecessary for horses, and the linseed coating is likely rancid and causing oxidative stress. Most oils go rancid quickly when exposed to air, linseed oil too. Unless the chaff bag is vacuum-packed tight like haylage, i wouldnt use any oil coated chaff to feed as the oil is likely rancid causing oxidative stress in the body, which means feeding more antioxidants.

(Antioxidants are found in longer green grass but unrested/starvation/over-grazed paddocks are so undernourished that cannot be relied-upon as a quality source of these nutrients)

Top chop zero confirmed to me in writing upon enquiring about glyphosate use on their straw that it is not organic and if i wanted to ensure to be feeding straw without glyphosate residue i should source another product elsewhere, than use theirs.
Glyphosate and insulin resistance causation has been proven in studies. If feeding straw i’d personally make sure it’s organic. I read too often folk with EMS horses feeding top chop products.
However, antioxidants of vitamin C and E are shown in study to improve the insulin resistance caused by eating glyphosate foods, but it isnt the answer fully, as its a bandaid solution.

8kg of hay for a 15hh horse is about right - if on short strip-grazed minimal grazing and no other feeds. Im surprised he’s not on more hay, considering he’s ridden weekly. I’d stick with that personally, lightly soaked so its retaining some nutrition.

To the hay quota, I’d add a multi-vit/min balancer like powdered forage plus, with some emerald green grass nuts so you have a feed for the antihistamines etc to go in. (i spoke to EG and got the grasses confirmed thats in their products so am satisfied theyre ok for grass pellets and chaff.) Then with more nutrition left in the hay and with added nutrients from forageplus balancer, he’ll be getting a good supply/array of nutrients that support healthier metabolism.

In essence id remove the questionable feeds that easily could be causing issues and keep it simple with good hay and nutrients.



.
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Thank you that’s really helpful. It’s such a fine balance as if I give him less hay and he’s standing 10-6 with nothing he’ll end up with ulcers. He is on a daily balancer (TB daily essentials which is a powder for good doers).
 
motherof2beasts! said:
Thank you that’s really helpful. It’s such a fine balance as if I give him less hay and he’s standing 10-6 with nothing he’ll end up with ulcers. He is on a daily balancer (TB daily essentials which is a powder for good doers).
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That us why I fed oat straw chaff, not TCZ, as for some reason it is extremely palatable. If you feed truly plain chaff, they only eat it if they genuinely are hungry.
 
Rigs was allowed 8kg total over 24 hours. If he had grazing, he needed either more exercise or less food.

He has 4 nets a day in winter when not at grass. One at 6am, one at midday, one at 4pm and one around 9pm. If he has grazing, he misses a net.

He has stayed slim on this and no signs of ulcers.

When he works, he has more.

He is muzzled when at grass in spring/summer. I use one that is great for breathing compromised horses, but I can't name it as my boyfriend makes them and it would be seen as advertising. Rigs used to have summer asthma but not this year with the new muzzle.
 
Red-1 said:
Rigs was allowed 8kg total over 24 hours. If he had grazing, he needed either more exercise or less food.

He has 4 nets a day in winter when not at grass. One at 6am, one at midday, one at 4pm and one around 9pm. If he has grazing, he misses a net.

He has stayed slim on this and no signs of ulcers.

When he works, he has more.

He is muzzled when at grass in spring/summer. I use one that is great for breathing compromised horses, but I can't name it as my boyfriend makes them and it would be seen as advertising. Rigs used to have summer asthma but not this year with the new muzzle.
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Can you maybe message me the name of it ?! X
 
tda said:
I am on the same situation, overfat dales pony, Is getting more exercise now, but when i try and restrict her forage she looses the plot and starts leaping /rearing being bolshy. I think I need to get some plain oat straw chaff
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Yes that’s the fine line isn’t it , can’t bloody win. Never had a cob before and I adore him but bloody hell it’s tough.
 
Surbie said:
Mine did too, am also on oat straw chaff for my horse and 7kg/night of soaked hay (horse is 15.3hh, out 10-12 hours and muzled). You have my sympathy.
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Ah thank you was dreading more fat shaming ! I have convinced my partner to make a nightly 9pm yard trip so he can have a small net at 5.30 then the other at 9 so at least he’ll probably have something to eat till hopefully 1/2am.
 
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