Forward cut saddles: are some horses impossible to fit?

[daveismycat]

I shall not bore you with the whole fiasco, but long story short, I want a nice forward cut jump saddle for my mare who apparently has huge shoulders.

The saddlers visited 3wks ago and took away the jump saddle a fitter (from the same company) had templated for us. I had felt it had been tipping me forwards and our physio had identified ongoing muscle tension surrounding the scapulae.

At the last visit the saddler scratched his head a lot as to how he would fit something forward cut when she has big shoulders which appear to push everything back.

In the end I felt a bit like I was being persuaded to get a gp saddle, which I don't really want for me, but will get if that is the only thing that is going to work for my horse.

I need all the help I can get as my mare jumps big, and although I'm only 5'5" I like to ride short. Saddler says I don't need a jump saddle until I'm at BE novice, which is never going to happen...!

My question is, has anyone experience of this, and how did you remedy?

Thanks

 

[mrogers]

yes!! I had a massive shouldered warm blood who would only ever fit into working hunter/dressage saddles and my friend has a pacer who also has massive shoulders. He was in a forward cut go saddle and bucked because it was constricting his shoulders. Only thing that he doesn't object to is again a working hunter saddle

 

[daveismycat]

Bummer!
*wanders off to look at BD membership*


Thanks for replying.

 

[Chymerrett]

Have you tried single flap saddles? They can be as forward cut as you like without touching the horses shoulder or interfering with her. I am 5"9 and ride short on a big moving warmblood and have found the Mark Todd Charmisa works a treat.

 

[JenTaz]

I have an irish draught who has huge shoulders, and have an exselle jump saddle that fits him perfectly, doesnt restrict his movement at all, a good saddler should be able to find a make of saddle that fits and doesnt restrict your horse, theres loads of show jumpers out there competing at top level who have massive shoulders with forward cut saddles.

 

[Sarah_Jane]

I too have a warmblood mare with huge shoulder and was nearly impossible to fit. In the end I travelled 3hrs to Nathaniel Underwood in Somerset who is a very very experienced saddle fitter and a specialist remedial saddler. He has hisown range of saddles as well as the main makes, we tried on loads and did get a good fit forward cut saddle that I was really pleased with. It is possible.

 

[CAH7]

I also have a chunky Irish boy and struggled to find a jump saddle to fit. I now have a lovely Exselle monoflap which gives me plenty of room (I'm 5'9) and allows him to move his big shoulders too. Hope that helps, and good luck!

 

[TableDancer]

Of course iti s possible to get a saddle to fit, as others have said - I would be ditching you rsaddler from what you have said: it is patently ridiculous to suggest you don't need a jumping saddle till you go BE Novice, which just proves his ignorance. (You can manage without a DRESSAGE saddle, but that's another story). GP saddles are horrible, especially if you ride short - I hate what they do to the clents I teach in them.

I think the monoflap suggestion is a good one - on our Butets the flap is completely soft so couldn't possibly restrict the shoulders, so if the tree is a good fit the saddle should be comfortable. I know Butets are prohibitvely expensive but there are other more reasonable makes, and there is always the secondhand market

 

[meardsall_millie]

Of course iti s possible to get a saddle to fit, as others have said - I would be ditching you rsaddler from what you have said: it is patently ridiculous to suggest you don't need a jumping saddle till you go BE Novice, which just proves his ignorance. (You can manage without a DRESSAGE saddle, but that's another story). GP saddles are horrible, especially if you ride short - I hate what they do to the clents I teach in them.

I think the monoflap suggestion is a good one - on our Butets the flap is completely soft so couldn't possibly restrict the shoulders, so if the tree is a good fit the saddle should be comfortable. I know Butets are prohibitvely expensive but there are other more reasonable makes, and there is always the secondhand market

Exactly.

The Equipe saddles sit very well on all shapes and sizes. I have a chunky monkey IDxTB with a big shoulder and his monoflap Equipe fits beautifully. As TD says it's all about finding something with a soft flap.

Good luck!

 

[LeannePip]

Agree with the monoflap suggestions! you could try the MT Charisma, or one of the Southern Stars (Team Frederick's)

Good Luck

 

[daveismycat]

Thanks everyone.

She's a chunky TB and her shoulder is big in comparison to the rest of her, but still I find it a little hard to believe she is impossible to fit.

Sadly I am tied to a particular brand (as I said, long story) but if they cannot supply a saddle to our specifications I shall try to get a full refund and go elsewhere.

I know this company do make a mono flap saddle as a certain rider that wears green uses them, but I think they are a fair bit more expensive than the saddle I originally ordered. Maybe 15months of hassle may give me room to haggle...?!

 

[LeannePip]

definitely worth a try!!

 

[BeckyD]

Exactly.

The Equipe saddles sit very well on all shapes and sizes. I have a chunky monkey IDxTB with a big shoulder and his monoflap Equipe fits beautifully. As TD says it's all about finding something with a soft flap.

Good luck!

I also have a chunky IDx with a big shoulder and a princess and the pea attitude to saddle fit. I too have a monoflap Equipe and it fits very well. Or at least it did until he put on about 50kg :/

 

[Lolo]

Al now has a monoflap from that company, if that's any help... Cost £450 second hand.

 

[TarrSteps]

Agree with TD, mm et al. You want a jumping saddle so you can ride well, which has nothing to do with the height of the fences.

I can see the monoflap argument and definitely worth a try but I'm not completely convinced. I hardly know a top level sj'er who rides in a monoflap and you never see one on an American show hunter, which is all about jumping style. I think if horses automatically jumped better in them you'd see a change.

That said, it's about finding the right option for you. Does the company fit any upper level jumpers? It would be interesting to know what models they are using.

 

[meardsall_millie]

Agree with TD, mm et al. You want a jumping saddle so you can ride well, which has nothing to do with the height of the fences.

I can see the monoflap argument and definitely worth a try but I'm not completely convinced. I hardly know a top level sj'er who rides in a monoflap and you never see one on an American show hunter, which is all about jumping style. I think if horses automatically jumped better in them you'd see a change.

That said, it's about finding the right option for you. Does the company fit any upper level jumpers? It would be interesting to know what models they are using.

Sorry, my comment wasn't completely clear. I'm not pushing monoflaps per se - that horse just happens to have one! I also have a double flap Equipe on another horse (just a different shape hence me commenting about the monoflap!) - the double flap is also very flexible.

I know the company in question (that the OP is tied to) sponsors a top level eventer, although whether her saddles are 'off the shelf' is another matter I guess? I'm not sure they work with any high level SJers?

 

[Scarlett]

I believe the company in question supply to Guy Williams and used to do Ben Maher too...

I have a big shouldered odd to fit TB, she wears a couple of their older style saddles without issues. Personally it sounds like the fitter was either incompetant or being akward, they have a superb range of jumping saddles - I don't believe for a second there isn't one that will fit your horse. I'd be fuming, personally!

 

[Stroppy Mare]

Have a look at ryder saddles - they're M2M and I would've thought they could make panels to suit the horse whilst having flaps to suit the both of you?

 

[daveismycat]

Well, they've been and delivered the new saddle.

It's a GP with big blocks on it and not really forward cut but they say it's the best they can do. I've had a sit on it, and whilst I think it fits the horse better, personally I really dislike it. I can't get my stirrups short enough for jumping length because there's not enough flap and the big block is in the way.

I shall persevere and try to love it, but honestly, I can't see this working. :'(

 

[TarrSteps]

Depressing.

My feeling on jump saddles is if you have to learn to live with it, it's not useful or even safe. I'd be tempted to ring before you start using it and find out what the plan will be if it doesn't work. You would hate to find out riding in it somehow affects the outcome. If they're sticky I might even get on to Trading Standards and get some advice.

 

[Polos Mum]

A saddle needs to work for you and your pony, get the GP one sent back, get your refund and broarden your search to consider all makes and models. My horse has a massive free moving shoulder and after much trial and error I have a lovely jumping saddle. We may never jump again (long story!) but he's very sharp and I need proper blocks. He's also max 16/5 inch saddle even though he's 17.1 !!

I think you need to separate where the tree sits and where the flaps sit, nice soft flaps should accomodate movement in the shoulder, it's the tree that has to be completely clear prevent pain.
get an independent saddle fitter and go from there

 

[saz5083]

If you can get a refund have a look at black country saddles. J has massive shoulders and the quantum fits him beautifully. Its super comfy for me too, and very secure!

 

[Gamebird]

Of course iti s possible to get a saddle to fit, as others have said - I would be ditching you rsaddler from what you have said: it is patently ridiculous to suggest you don't need a jumping saddle till you go BE Novice, which just proves his ignorance. (You can manage without a DRESSAGE saddle, but that's another story). GP saddles are horrible, especially if you ride short - I hate what they do to the clents I teach in them.

I think the monoflap suggestion is a good one - on our Butets the flap is completely soft so couldn't possibly restrict the shoulders, so if the tree is a good fit the saddle should be comfortable. I know Butets are prohibitvely expensive but there are other more reasonable makes, and there is always the secondhand market

Another ditto. I often have big shouldered horses (I find they take up my extra-long legs well). I bought an old reconditioned Butet monoflap about 8 years ago and it has been my saviour. There are no blocks at all which lets me put my leg wherever I want it, regardless of how short I have my stirrups (currently very short). The flaps have no chance at all of restricting the shoulder. It really wasn't as expensive as you might think. I have recently seen similar saddles going unsold on ebay for really quite reasonable prices.

 

[Dizzle]

Dropped pannels are the way forward, Falcon Hawk Event high wither worked really nicely on my old TB, he liked his saddle a bit wide so I had room for his shoulders.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Of course iti s possible to get a saddle to fit, as others have said - I would be ditching you rsaddler from what you have said: it is patently ridiculous to suggest you don't need a jumping saddle till you go BE Novice, which just proves his ignorance. (You can manage without a DRESSAGE saddle, but that's another story). GP saddles are horrible, especially if you ride short - I hate what they do to the clents I teach in them.

I totally agree with this, I have an ID mare with huge everything, luckily I am fairly experienced and can tell whether a saddle fits more or less. I originally bought a Falcon Osprey jumping saddle for her as a 5 yr old which still fits her now (although I've lent it to my mum for her horse) and I am currently riding her in a copy of a Crosby jumping saddle which was made by Village Saddlery for Adrian Marsh. I did find dressage saddles more difficult to fit than a jumping saddle but I would always rather have all my money invested in a proper jumping saddle than compromise and have two. (We have done dressage to Elementary in the jumping saddles too).

 

[Baggybreeches]

Well, they've been and delivered the new saddle.

It's a GP with big blocks on it and not really forward cut but they say it's the best they can do. I've had a sit on it, and whilst I think it fits the horse better, personally I really dislike it. I can't get my stirrups short enough for jumping length because there's not enough flap and the big block is in the way.

I shall persevere and try to love it, but honestly, I can't see this working. :'(

That's really not good enough! A GP saddle is neither use nor ornament if you want to jump properly. I would start looking at trading standards. Did you pay on your credit card? If you did you will have a huge amount on consumer rights backing. Don't let them fob you off.

 

[anna22]

Have to agree with the above, I have been having saddle trouble of late… tipping me forward exactly as you said. I got a "respectable" saddle company to come out and fit a new one and they said mine was the hardest horse they'd ever had to fit (high withers, big shoulders and short back). And tried to send me away with an off the shelf k+m with 2 prelate pads underneath?!
I have now moved saddlery, and let just say things are far more positive!

You're selling yourself short accepting something that isn't right, but I understand it must be difficult in your situation. But I agree with above, you need to find some way of getting what you want and need to be an effective and SAFE rider.

 

[longdog]

Look at the new Fairfax - they have a split panel to help with this exact problem http://bit.ly/NohSmp
Or, the new Prestige X-Breath - super thin panels - http://bit.ly/1ks4ATr

 

[sbloom]

SJ close contact saddles are really not that forward cut but the block placement enables you to get your stirrups up, GP blocks and flaps are just not the same. I've met few horses that can't take a jump saddle, a prominent scapula and a relatively narrow fit, with a lack of muscle immediately behind the scapula, is the biggest problem, a thick half pad is actually part of teh solution, but the right tree shape etc is by far the most important factor. "Big shoulders" just aren't the issue that many fitters say they are. My boy needed custom rugs to accommodate his big shoulders and small neck, but took a close contact saddle no problem, and I've met few customers with horses that can't take one.

 

[pipsqueek]

My mare is connie x ID & has big shoulders too, I previousy had an Albion K2 jump, whilst it is a lovely saddle her shape pushed it back & she had become quite sore, I now have a Black Country Solare jump saddle which is so much better for her shape, she feels a lot better in it. It is lovely to ride in as well & very secure.